I thought vitamin C was a cure

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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#16  Post by Dolev » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:08 pm

http://vitamincfoundation.org/stone/

Stone's book is even available for free download on this site. Amazing book, summarizing thousands of studies until the 1970's. Owen has been trying to get hold of Stone's library of studies.
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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#17  Post by davea0511 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:50 am

Horsea wrote:*******************

[i]This is where I got the anti-ascorbic acid quote from:

http://www.healthresearchnews.com/chemistry-of-bliss/

But where this person got his info from, he doesn't say, as far as I can see.

FYI ... if a URL has the words "health" and "news" in it you can pretty much guarantee that they are not an unbiased source, but merely regurgitating "news" from big pharma or someone who wants to sell you an expensive and less effective nutritional supplement.

You've done the right thing to come here to get the straight dope. A wise man once said: "If you want a clean drink of water do not get it down the stream after the cattle have waded through it ... but from the source from whence it sprang" (or something like that). So ... not surprisingly some of the most accurate (and profound) info on vitamin C was uncovered by Dr. Klenner ... the first real "Ascorbist", to coin a term - and nothing he discovered has been proven wrong since then though attempts to discredit him and his work have been astonishing. You might want to read up on him and what he did. Abraham Hoffer was next, along with Pauling, Cathcart, and many others. In each case the reaction of the medicinal community has been the same: abject disregard. I agree with those who say read the books that have been written about vitamin C. Its easy to write a paper that distorts the findings of a poorly designed experiment to justify your thesis ... but if you read the books about vitamin C ... well, the preponderance of data to it's credit becomes overwhelming.

As for the fact that a single dose of vitamin C didn't turn Cathcart into a god ... what did you expect? Every cold I've treated with vitamin C according to the protocol recommended on this website was diminished to the point of relative insignificance within 24 hours. I call that a cure. I know of no other substance that can do that. Do you?
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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#18  Post by majkinetor » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:21 am

Indeed. Vitamin C is awesome virus killer, nothing comes even close to it. Thats enough for me.

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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#19  Post by ofonorow » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:58 am

Because vitamin C is not a magic cure (lets call it personal opinion, to prevent Owen jumping in asking for references). It is a basic chemical the body needs, and it needs it all the time, like you need water for example. Just as you can't generally cure stuff with water, but you would die without it, the same goes for C - although not that dramatic.



Lets go with the water analogy, but to be correct, water has to be scarce and everyone dehydrated. (For example, in the future when the population grows and clean water supplies are scarce and people are rationed to say a quart or pint of water per day.) Under these conditions, many illnesses (symptoms) would be attributed to the lack of water (dehydration) and taking water would apparently "cure" much illness.

It is the same with vitamin C. It is scarce in most humans, and we might say that most people are "de-ascorbated" and require more to relieve the many symptoms/illness caused by low vitamin C.

You might now see that while Cathcart was taking high amounts of the vitamin - his symptoms were relieved, but once his intake dropped, the symptoms would reappear.
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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#20  Post by Horsea » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:55 am

1. Tks for link to book by Stone!

2. Owen - I guess this is what they call a "dependency" (not deficiency) that Cathcart has. I read about this in a book by Hoffer & Saul. I am really struggling to understand this. It would seem that maybe some people are just born with a more-than-average need, a need that will not be filled by anything other than megadosing. That - or serious trauma later in life.

3. Okay, so I've recently been making my own sodium ascorbate - it is so nice when I make this with cool water and then drink it while it still has some bubbles in it. A nice drink in and of itself even if there was no health benefit!

I tried to take increasing quantities to tolerance but before I arrived at that point, my lips were getting sore and a bit cracked. A day after I stopped the home-made Vit C, my lips got well. So I waited about a week and am now just taking 8 grams a day in 2 goes, and that's it. I probably will never know what my bowel tolerance is, maybe.

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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#21  Post by majkinetor » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:01 pm

It would seem that maybe some people are just born with a more-than-average need


Michels, Alexander J, Tory M Hagen, and Balz Frei. “A New Twist on an Old Vitamin: Human Polymorphisms in the Gene Encoding the Sodium-dependent Vitamin C Transporter 1.” The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 92, no. 2 (August 2010): 271–272.

One of the 4 SLC23A1 single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) examined, rs33972313, was associated with a highly significant reduction in plasma vitamin C concentrations (–5.98 lmol/L per modified allele). Remarkably, this effect was observed without adjustment for variables known to affect vitamin C status, such as dietary intake or cigarette smoking, and despite diverse study designs and differing methods used for plasma ascorbic acid analysis. These data, therefore, suggest that the rs33972313 SNP is a ‘‘nonconfounded proxy for variation in L-ascorbic acid at the population level’’ (2) that needs to be considered—potentially with other SLC23A1 genetic variants— in the design of future observational studies and randomized controlled trials investigating the role of vitamin C in humans.

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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#22  Post by ofonorow » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:16 am

I tried to take increasing quantities to tolerance but before I arrived at that point, my lips were getting sore and a bit cracked. A day after I stopped the home-made Vit C, my lips got well.


Possibly an reason to use a straw.
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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#23  Post by gofanu » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:47 am

Cracked lips are a sign of dehydration, precise enough to be diagnostic. It only takes a couple of hours to change if minor, couple of days if major. Vitamin C has a diuretic effect, so if you are borderline, it pushes you over the edge. If you do get to bowel tolerance, you will lose more water. The problem is worst in winter, as humidity in heated houses is lower than Death Valley. Heated beds are worse. Some estimates are that 90% of people are dehydrated to a significant extent.
Mt wife had lips that cracked every winter, coincident to the furnace coming on, to the point of bleeding, and extremely painful. I was not that bad usually, but constantly scaly. After I achieved a kidney stone, I instituted a water program, very simple - Drink 16oz water first thing in the morning, with no other change. As a matter of convenience, I dissolve my first 5gm ascorbic acid in it. Everybody's lips cleared up, her dry skin problems decreased by 90%, my lifelong near daily headaches decreased by 90%. She used to apply Chapstick every half hour, no more. I lived on pain killers, no more. For the kidney stone, that the urologist said I could do nothing about, I added 250mg magnesium. End of story.

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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#24  Post by majkinetor » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:33 pm

Gofanu, did you get kindey stones before or after C supplementation ? In anyway, what kind of stones ?

Nice info anyway. I didn't know that cracked lips are sign of dehydration.

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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#25  Post by gofanu » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:42 am

Maj-
Whole story posted here, in a discussion with you!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9034&p=25464#p25464

I have been using ascorbic acid since 1968, starting at 5gm/day, and increasing over the years. The one & only kidney stone was 1996. At the time it was 9gm as routine, and more if needed. I started the 250mg added Magnesium then and maintained it until about 2006, when I figured out we were still deficient. At that point the goal became 1000mg, with remarkable result. That was the lead in to iodine, which we started after 3 months at the higher Mg level, again with astonishing result.

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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#26  Post by davea0511 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:32 am

ofonorow wrote:Lets go with the water analogy, but to be correct, water has to be scarce and everyone dehydrated. ...It is the same with vitamin C.

I like that analogy. We're a planet of people suffering from vitamin C dehydration which can be cured ...by taking vitamin C.
The ascorbist-greeting:
"Score big, eh eh?", "Is yea.", "Excelente'."

(igpay-atinlay of: "Ascorbic?","Yes.","Excellent.")
Short-form: "Score?", "Score." [knuckle bump]

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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#27  Post by majkinetor » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:44 pm

Maj-
Whole story posted here, in a discussion with you!

ZOMG. More Piracetaaaam !

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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#28  Post by NiacinVC » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:05 pm

majkinetor wrote:
Maj-
Whole story posted here, in a discussion with you!

ZOMG. More Piracetaaaam !





Does that work at all for you? The low side effects make me want to try it. Do you order it online or get it prescribed for yourself maj?
Also doesn't piracetam deplete choline? If you supplement choline, how much do you use to offset this effect?
"When one's expectations are reduced to zero, one really appreciates everything one does have"- Steven Hawking

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Re: I thought vitamin C was a cure

Post Number:#29  Post by majkinetor » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:20 pm

Yes, it works for me. It doesn't work for everybody however.

Its OTC in my country. I take it on/off, 2.5g. I would probably take 4-5g if I had a powder.
For choline I initially supplemented soy lechitin but then I switched to eggs totally. Since I eat 2-4 eggs per day there is no need for more choline (you usually have some in the multivitamin too). I remember the dude taking 20g (which is typical dose for epilepsy to resolve myoclonus, for years or entire life) was having headaches and it stopped with 4 eggs per day. So, for smaller doses 1-2 eggs should be enough or tsp of lechitin.

Synergistically it works much better with hydergine. I was also taking it for some time.

No side effects that I was aware of, although hydergine may be more problematic for some people. Piracetam itself is, in my opinion, vitamin like substance when side effects and benefits are in question. The only thing that can happen is constipation and initial insomnia that I am aware of in some small percentage of cases. On the other hand, protection from hyphoxia is substantial and it also has antiplatelete and lowers hypertension a bit so I think it should be very good to have with with CVD in general.

I didn't notice that much of memory improvement to be honest but it influences my sleep a lot - I sleep much better and feel more energized in the morning with half the sleeping time without it, wake up in a second without 30m-1h fade in and have more vivid dreams .

The Piracetam example shows us that we must overcome the 'Big Pharma' attitude in general. There are good, cheep, pharmaceuticals that cause no harm and provide substantial benefit. We must work toward discovery of good things no matter 'which side' it belongs to.


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