I sure hope it isn't hype

[gmdodaro]

PurposeFirst, thanks for the recommendation of Levy's book on death by calcium. I'd prefer not to die of my calcium.

The study I linked earlier does say it is Ca EDTA but doesn't include the rate or dosage in this abstract.

It was a surprise to my doc that EECP reduces heavy metals, but he has found it consistently with his many patients who do EECP. If you're interested in reducing toxic metals without chelation, it may be an option: http://www.drbuscher.net/eecp.php

[Johnwen]

[gmdodaro]

Thanks, Johnwen. This increases the urgency about getting her off coumadin. I'm not certain whether it was her cardiologist or GP who started it, but she has been on it for years. I know that they indoctrinated her with fear that without it she was likely to have a heart attack or stroke.
The question now is whether it is feasible to get her off coumadin or whether the best we can do is to convince her, against the doctors' advice, that she should take vitamin K while continuing on coumadin?
The other question is dosage of vitamin K that would be compatible?
There are also other things that decrease clotting tendency of the blood. Gordon makes the case that oral EDTA works well as regulator. He has a protocol for getting off coumadin: http://gordonresearch.com/inner.cfm?sit ... orId=46696
http://lymebook.com/fight/you-can-help- ... -coumadin/

[ofonorow]

From the experience with my brother, and Johnwen's advice back then, not much affects INR - not fish oil, not vitamin E, not grape seed extract. However, there are at least two faces to vitamin K. These "blood thinning" drugs ( a misnomer) are "playing" with the clotting face, slowing the clotting process down. But the other face of vitamin K has to do with rapid calcification of soft tissues, and these drugs have a secondary effect of hardening arteries by blocking or substituting for the real vitamin K. There are literally hundreds of studies in pubmed that illustrate this. What we think we know from past discussions and with the help of Dr. Levy's new book on Calcium, is that vitamin K2 - and particularly one form of K2 - has no effect on clotting, so is "safe" to take with anti-clotting drugs (the correct name) and vitamin K2 will work like a hormone to move calcium from soft tissue into bones.

So what to do - find this form of vitamin K2 (from memory Mk7 - but don't trust this) - and as you slowly introduce it, verify that there is no effect on the INR. No vitamin K1 at this point Over time, this should correct that arterial hardening.

As the arteries become more supple the need for anti-clotting drugs should be reduced and they can go on and enjoy the benefits of a complete vitamin K supplement.

[gmdodaro]

This sounds good, Owen. I have ordered Dr. Levy's book on calcium. Maybe it will clarify how to distinguish the K2 and K4 forms of the vitamin. I've read elsewhere on this forum that Levy recommends dosages 40-45 mg per day, above anything I can find without taking an awful lot of pills.
Anyway, if K2 doesn't affect clotting, I can encourage my mother to take it while on coumadin.
And I will increase my dosage. Also from other reading on this forum, I'm amazed that I haven't been in the hospital with my EBT calcium score of 555. At 65 years of age I still lift weights and run hills 5-6 days per week. My cardiologist says I'm an interesting case.
If the Pauling therapy brings my EBT score down significantly, he'll either find me more interesting or he'll be in a pickle to deal with what it means. He has recommended aspirin, coumadin, diltiazem, and statin for me, and I've declined. He seems an honest man, if a bit weary of seeing heart patients in decline. Says he'd like somebody to teach him something. So back to where we started: I sure hope the testimonials on Pauling Therapy are not a lot of hype.

[Jacquie]

If you haven't found a source of high dose vitamin K2 yet, here's a link to K2 pills in the MK-4 form at 15 mg per pill. $24.95 per 90 pills. I seem to remember the MK-4 form being the one Levy recommended 40-45 mgs per day of, so this source would make that workable.

[pamojja]

That's what I use:

http://www.k-vitamins.com/index.php?pag ... _-_Buy_Now

One Koncentrated K capsule has 25 mg of MK-4, 0.5 mg of MK-7, 5 mg of K1, 5 mg of Astaxanthin and 100 mg of Grapeseed extract.

[gmdodaro]

Thanks, Jaquie and Pamojja, for the good links.