Optimum LP(a) levels ?

[ofonorow]

Confusing, heh? Cholesterol is a health giving substance. You cannot live without it. I have put this papers together (quotes from others) to reinforce the point

http://www.internetwks.com/owen/TruthChol.htm

The VAP test was simply to verify the numbers, especially the Lp(a) which cannot possible be right (unless you got the units wrong).

And you are in luck!

I plan to start taking two serving of Liposomal VC per/day to increase uptake, but I just wish there was a way to know what it's doing to my vessel health. If only we had cameras to see our inside vessel walls

You can get a retinal "fundus photograph (color) and send them to Dr. Sydney Bush who will look at your vessels and let you know what's up. Sam's CLub charges $9 (don't know if you have to have the exam too.). Must meet following specs.

Hi Owen

I work from 45 degree fundus fotos in full colour and (ideally) 1Mb. min. but often 750Kb is acceptable
Nothing else.
Best
Sydney

Must meet following specs, when you have it, send me PM and I'll set this up and tell you where to email the pictures.

Again, I believe that all the complexity regarding various types of cholesterol and ratios is nonsense. Cholesterol is an important substance. It is important for good health. The only problem with cholesterol - is after it has been read - worrying about it.

[fryeedaddy]

Update: New blood results came back last month and the Tot Chol, LDL-C, ApoB all keep going up (about 10-15% increase); Lp(a) remained steady. Still not taking statins, but I did get a CT angiogram which confirmed mild/moderate stenois of the LAD. So now I officially have CAD. Has anyone seen this type of steady increase of cholestorol and lipoproteins after 18 months on PT? Prior to PT my numbers were static, so I have to believe something is going on. If I assume the increase is a transient effect of reversal of CAD, The question is how long will this transient effect last? My inflamation markers are still in the "green" category.

[jimmylesante]

HI Fryeedaddy
My Tuppence worth.
1)The tests are blood tests- so they are seeing what is in the blood at the time. If you are doing the PT then i understood this would pick up bits of plaque/lp(a) from the vessels and this would float around the blood(especially if your fasting test do not include the fasting of vitamins you are taking and water as you say)
2)In your long list of vitamins you do not mention B3-Niacin did you stop taking it?Is a reduction/stoppage of B3 correlate with your increasing numbers?
3)You also reduced B3- reference Homocysteine? I would have stayed at B3 level, and introduced folic acid, B12 and especially B6 which reduce Homocysteine.
4)I wonder if your training has gradually increased

How does Lp(a) get excreted from the body?

[Ralph Lotz]

To your protocol add:
Unique E tocotrienols taken at a different time than tocopherol.

Resume niacin, it reduces both cholesterol and Lp(a).

Total Cholesterol numbers below 140 increase risk of cancer and increase mortality:

[ofonorow]

Update: New blood results came back last month and the Tot Chol, LDL-C, ApoB all keep going up (about 10-15% increase); Lp(a) remained steady. Still not taking statins, but I did get a CT angiogram which confirmed mild/moderate stenois of the LAD. So now I officially have CAD. Has anyone seen this type of steady increase of cholestorol and lipoproteins after 18 months on PT? Prior to PT my numbers were static, so I have to believe something is going on. If I assume the increase is a transient effect of reversal of CAD, The question is how long will this transient effect last? My inflammation markers are still in the "green" category.

Just reviewed your earlier posts. Do we have more info on the Lp(a) which cannot be correct if Lp(a) is a subset of LDL.

If your total cholesterol is rising, that is a strong indication that you require more vitamin C than you are currently taking. In other cases, of poor PT results here at the forum, there was some kind of toxin present - e.g., mercury amalgams (fillings) or root canals toxins - that increased the need for vitamin C. (Dr. Levy is of the opinion that if you have dental toxins, no amount of oral vitamin C will be sufficient to deal with them.) If you haven't already, read/review Dr. Cathcart's Titrating to Bowel Tolerance Paper http://vitamincfoundation.org/www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm and find out what your vitamin C bowel tolerance is. If you can take about 10% less than your bowel tolerance daily of vitamin C, plus added Lypo-C - your total cholesterol should start coming down - otherwise you likely have an intractable toxicity problem that needs to be dealt with.

Good news on inflammation markers and good news that your stenois is "mild/moderate". (Are you still on the full supplement program? Including vitamin K?)

[fryeedaddy]

Thanks for all the replies.

Owen, I doubt very much the rise in total cholesterol is from some toxicity, since before starting PT my cholesterol was always around 180 which would be considered perfect by most standards on this forum. My numbers have only started moving north since beginning the PT. No new life changes have introduced new toxins, especially no dental work.

As for the Lpa, the test has been done three times by the same lab and always comes in at the same number. Units are correct. I understand your point, so I'll have to find a new lab and retest those numbers. Perhaps it calls into question the entire blood result.

I do need to get back with the Vitamin K, and will experiment with more Vit C in liposomal form (just so expensive). I can't really consume much more normal Vit C as it causes too much gasto problems. I'll also try more niacin to see what effect that has.

My main question was to see if anyone else has seen a direct increase in cholesterol while doing PT. And if so, might it go down with more time on PT? I realize this may be very unique, but I was just curious.

[ofonorow]

Thanks for all the replies.

Owen, I doubt very much the rise in total cholesterol is from some toxicity, since before starting PT my cholesterol was always around 180 which would be considered perfect by most standards on this forum. My numbers have only started moving north since beginning the PT. No new life changes have introduced new toxins, especially no dental work.

Interesting. We are here to learn and share. Your experience is exactly the opposite of my personal experience. After Pauling-like dosages of vitamin C for years, my cholesterol was 180 mg/dl.

After adding lysine, my next reading years later was 160 mg/dl

Today it is around 140/150 mg/dl (and I am interested in raising it to around 180.)

I know that some people fall asleep after drinking coffee (my late brother) so we are all different.

Dr. Levy found research and wrote about the fact that cholesterol is a major detoxification mechanism. Levy, then a cardiologist, noticed that when Dr. Hal Huggins took mercury amalgams out of his (Levy's) patients, their cholesterol dropped a significant amount with a week or two.)
This peaked his curiosity.

I have been reading a book, THYROID: ..SOLVED.. which claims that cholesterol generally rises in people who are hypothyroid.

So, the reasons cholesterol might rise include heart disease, toxic load, and perhaps low thyroid. If you have been following the Pauling Therapy as you say, it seems unlikely that the rise in cholesterol is because your heart disease is worsening.

As for the Lpa, the test has been done three times by the same lab and always comes in at the same number. Units are correct. I understand your point, so I'll have to find a new lab and retest those numbers. Perhaps it calls into question the entire blood result.

The fact that it is the same number is suspect - the FDA years ago allowed labs to "calculate" (i.e. guess) Lp(a) rather than measure. At least you can try to verify the units, either mg/dl or nmoles/l,
and whether they actually measured your Lp(a). Lp(a) varies in size, and VAP would report in terms of LDL - because larger Lp(a) is not as atherogenic (bad) as smaller particles. So the pure number isn't scary depending on the size. Thus the idea to use moles - number of particles.

I do need to get back with the Vitamin K, and will experiment with more Vit C in liposomal form (just so expensive). I can't really consume much more normal Vit C as it causes too much gasto problems. I'll also try more niacin to see what effect that has.

My main question was to see if anyone else has seen a direct increase in cholesterol while doing PT. And if so, might it go down with more time on PT? I realize this may be very unique, but I was just curious.

[/quote]
I just re found this article - the first article from the year 2000 from Life Extension Magazine about vitamin K and its ability to move calcium from soft tissue into bones.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.html
A new article from 2009 from Life Extension is even more amazing
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/jan2009_Vitamin-K-Protection-Against-Arterial-Calcification-Bone-Loss-Cancer-Aging_01.htm

In my opinion, with one possible exception, home made "liposomes" are not truly liposomal (60 nanometer particles which encapsulate vitamin C, however I think it is very likely these emulsions protect the vitamin so more of it reaches the blood stream. In other words, there is nothing wrong with homemade lipo. What do you think your bowel tolerance for vitamin C is? And have you tried taking the PT 20 minutes prior to eating?

added - this does remind me of a case years ago where the heart patient started taking our product with a lot of fiber - with no effect. He got the idea that perhaps the nutrients were sticking to the fiber and not being digested, so he started taking his fiber away from the vitamin C and lysine - and ouila - the miracle then occurred.

[leshoward]

After listening to the Dr Dayspring video on Lipid Analysis, I have a big problem in his reasoning for an elevated particle count... He obviously doesnt put much credence on the Pauling Theory of CVD,,, Great Lipid Analysis as to Risk Markers, but what is the root of those Markers...

[ofonorow]

After listening to the Dr Dayspring video on Lipid Analysis, I have a big problem in his reasoning for an elevated particle count... He obviously doesnt put much credence on the Pauling Theory of CVD,,, Great Lipid Analysis as to Risk Markers, but what is the root of those Markers...

This is why I thank goodness for Linus Pauling when I wake up every day... if it were not for him..
Do you have the link to this? I must have missed it (Dayspring)
I think most people and doctors, if they have even heard about Pauling's claims, and do not themselves have CVD, are apt to dismiss it a priori because, of course, if true, someone would have studied it and we'd all know by now. How could something like this be true and ignored? Epso facto Impossiblay. (I admit, when I speak to people, I alwasy know this is the back of their minds. The reason we have any business at all is because patients with severe heart disease quickly respond so the effect is obvious.)

[leshoward]

Here you go Owen....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlJE2Rqs0w#t=12