On PT, concerned about bad "EBT CT Scan"

[ofonorow]

[Johnwen]

Johnwen, are you familiar with this "new" test?

Not really New! per say but there is a lot of Ups and downs to it so rather then write a book here I let my fingers do the work and found an article 5Pages long on the ups and downs of it.
Their writting parrell's mine about it's use. It's worth reading!
I like her numbers which tell me at this point she is healthy however the items I would like to know before I would suggest further exams is as follow.
1.) Her age
2.) Serum calcium
3.) Ionized calcium
4.) PTH
5.) does she use or take any calcium or V-D supplements?


Heres the link

http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/cardiactests/a/EBT.htm

[ofonorow]

Hi Owen,
Appreciate you forwarding my info to Dr. Johnwen,

Regarding Dr. Johnwen questions, 1) my age: 63; 2),3),& 4)=where do I obtain these? My internist sent blood drawn yesterday to lab and I should receive the report towards end of next week.
5)Calcium use-just what's include in my multi vitamin, 165mg, and what I may be getting from veggies. I don't drink milk, (sometimes almond milk & yogurt, but mostly in the summer). About 5 years ago I took high doses of calcium since I had Osteopenia but stopped because I was developing kidney crystals per my doctor's recommendation.
Regarding V-D, in 9/'10 reading was 15, was given prescription; tested 2/11 it was 22 and last reading 8/11-37.
I've been taking 5000 IU daily of D3 (cholecalciferol).

As you know, I purchase the Cardio C and usually take 7-10 g daily in hopes of reversing the calcium score. I will soon be adding Nordic Natural' Omega as suggested in Dr. J. Dach' article. In addition to vitamin supplements and
Osteo-Bi-Flex, I take 80 mg Diovan and 150 mcg of Levothroxin.

Could you please tell me the difference in the liposomal form of Vit C? I thought that high doses of C were usually voided since it couldn't be digested at once?? Please send me the reference to the V-K article. Also, isn't V-K
toxic?

Thank you - I.

[ofonorow]

[ofonorow]

quickly, rereading, per comment that reports of vitamin "toxicity" are discouraging, let me start debunking those reports. Here is the article that helps debunk the supposed"toxicity" issue with Vitamin A. (Only one death in the medical literature! And it was no doubt beta carotene - not vitamin A per se.)

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/journal/mega2.1.html

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

[kohlrabicroce]

Has anybody read: The Calcium Bomb: The Nanobacteria Link to Heart Disease & Cancer?
http://www.amazon.com/The-Calcium-Bomb- ... roduct_top


I have an interest in this, since my significant other is now on warfarin
and cannot take very much vitamin K.

[ofonorow]

The nanobug theory fails for the same reason the cholesterol theory fails - plaques are not randomly distributed, but occur close to the heart where the blood pressure and mechanical forces are the greatest.

Research vitamin K2 - that should not interfere with the rat poison, and if it does, you need to question your doctor's judgement. If you want to move calcium from arteries to bones the answer is vitamin K - apparently micrograms of K2.

[ofonorow]

Small sample of the vitamin K deficiency and calcium buildup in soft tissue research

Regression of warfarin-induced medial elastocalcinosis by high intake of vitamin K in rats.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17138823

Both the VK-rich diets decreased the arterial calcium content by some 50%. In addition, arterial distensibility was restored by the VK-rich diet. Using MGP antibodies, local VK deficiency was demonstrated at sites of calcification. This is the first study in rats demonstrating that AC and the resulting decreased arterial distensibility are reversible by high-VK intake.

Dietary vitamin K1 and therapeutic warfarin alter the susceptibility to vascular calcification in experimental chronic kidney disease.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23344475

Treatment of CKD rats with warfarin markedly increased pulse pressure and pulse wave velocity, as well as significantly increased calcium concentrations in the thoracic aorta (3-fold), abdominal aorta (8-fold), renal artery (4-fold), and carotid artery (20-fold). In contrast, treatment with high dietary vitamin K1 increased vitamin K tissue concentrations (10-300-fold) and blunted the development of vascular calcification. Thus, vitamin K has an important role in modifying mechanisms linked to the susceptibility of arteries to calcify in an experimental model of CKD.

Role of vitamin K and vitamin K-dependent proteins in vascular calcification.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11374034

This is the first report demonstrating the association between MGP (from Vitamin K) and vascular calcification. The hypothesis is put forward that undercarboxylation of MGP is a risk factor for vascular calcification and that the present RDA values (vitamin K) are too low to ensure full carboxylation of MGP.

Chronic coumarin treatment is associated with increased extracoronary arterial calcification in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20354170

Coumarin use and MGP were associated with calcification, even after adjusting for other risk factors. We conclude that long-term use of coumarins is associated with enhanced extracoronary vascular calcification, possibly through the inhibition of MGP carboxylation.

Vitamin K supplementation and progression of coronary artery calcium in older men and women.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19386744

Phylloquinone (vitamin K1) supplementation slows the progression of CAC in healthy older adults with preexisting CAC, independent of its effect on total MGP concentrations. Because our data are hypothesis-generating, further studies are warranted to clarify this mechanism.

Effects of the blood coagulation vitamin K as an inhibitor of arterial calcification.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18234293

These findings suggest that MK4 acts as an anti-calcification component in the vessel wall.

Treatment with vitamin k(2) combined with bisphosphonates synergistically inhibits calcification in cultured smooth muscle cells.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18174662

The role of vitamin K in soft-tissue calcification.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22516724

[kohlrabicroce]

The nanobug theory fails for the same reason the cholesterol theory fails - plaques are not randomly distributed, but occur close to the heart where the blood pressure and mechanical forces are the greatest.

Research vitamin K2 - that should not interfere with the rat poison, and if it does, you need to question your doctor's judgement. If you want to move calcium from arteries to bones the answer is vitamin K - apparently micrograms of K2.

It's ok, I think I may have found an alternative yesterday - magnesium!

[kohlrabicroce]

Wait a minute....chapter 15 of "Stop America's #1 Killer" claims that Vitamin C
can remove calcium deposits from arteries.

So this could also be a way to get my foot in the door so to speak,
without using any vitamin K.

PS: I looked at the label on my own bottle of vitamin K2, and
it warns against using it with warfarin. Which I don't personally
don't have to worry about, but the s/o does.

[jimmylesante]

Apparently Mg Chloride is the best to ingest. I was under the impression low dose of Vit K helps stabilise warfarin.? Would high doses of vit C do the same job as warfarin?Perhaps even along with Vit E?

[ofonorow]

Wait a minute....chapter 15 of "Stop America's #1 Killer" claims that Vitamin C
can remove calcium deposits from arteries.

So this could also be a way to get my foot in the door so to speak,
without using any vitamin K.

PS: I looked at the label on my own bottle of vitamin K2, and
it warns against using it with warfarin. Which I don't personally
don't have to worry about, but the s/o does.

There is some confusion and I don't know how well I can help clear it up.

I think the stop America's killer statement is true - based on Dr. Sydney Bush's cardioretinometry and his observations,
however, as I have reported, I don't think the effect is anywhere as large as the effect of vitamin K. (And in Bush's case, he said he could tell who was and wasn't eating "leafy vegetables" etc. And indication of perhaps vitamin K ?)

Refer to story of the President of Tower Laboratories and a personal friend of Linus Pauling was taking a lot of vitamin C - and lysine - and still had very high calcium scores are reported by two tests. He had been taking his own Tower Heart Technology for years! (A year of vitamin K seems to have rid his arterial system of calcium)

As far as these vitamin K warnings - I think even livon has in the past posted an obtuse warning about Lypo-C perhaps causing blood thinning, that we and Dr. Levy had called them on, but have no control over. I think companies would rather put false cautions on labels, than miss a caution (or at least their attorneys). Since it is medical dogma that vitamin K "clots blood" - and of course it plays a role, as vitamin C plays a role in collagen produciont, and because cardiology thus recommends that heart patients on heart thinners stay away from vitamin K (!?!?argh!?!?) it is easy to see how all companies making a vitamin K tablet feel compelled to include the warning - true or not.

[Johnwen]

Warfarin is a Vitamin k1 antagonist and blocks the action of V-K1 which renders the blood thinner (Dosen't Clot without V-K1!)
The calcium transport and binding form of V-K is V-K2 ( menaquinone) Different types all together!
V-K2 Dosen't effect Warfarin at all!!!! Vitamin K1 Can be taken with Warfarin in small doses so the conversion of K2 can take place in the gut but the warfarin dose will have to be adjusted to blunt any K1 that gets in the circulatory system and dosing of K1 needs to be constent! This type of therapy is used in people with mechanical heart valves so the ciculatory system won't calcify! Smart Doc's just reccomend K2 complex minus K1 to begin with!!!!

Here's a wiki on V-K

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K

Here's a article by Howenstine on how it moves calcium around!

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james59.htm