Oils/lipids are Good/Bad for Heart patients (from Letting PT slide)

[blade]

[ofonorow]

[blade]

[pamojja]

[89826]

Owen, you hit the nail on the head. We humans make all the cholesterol we need. We are born with a level of 100. It doesn't go to 0 if we don't eat foods with cholesterol. We make all we need. From an evolutionary perspective, since cholesterol is needed for us to live, that means our food supply was not a reliable source-- we weren't regularly consuming animal products. Otherwise we wouldn't be shouldering the burden of cholesterol-manufacturing machinery. It is the same situation in reverse with vitamin C; our ancient diet allowed us to jettison the metabolic cost of making vitamin C.

ALL oils destroy the endothelium. Other foods too. This can be easily tested and has been tested using the brachial artery tourniquet test. Are you familiar with that test?

I mentioned the study with olive oil to emphasize the point that favorable lipid profiles do not guarantee healthy arteries. Many in this crowd probably realize that, but many in the rest of the world don't. Some don't here too.

Both mechanisms are not the same. One involves the sudden rupture of plaque leading to thrombosis, the other does not-- it is gradual stenosis. The first is much more common, something like 90% to 10%. The plaque rupture in arteries which are relatively open allows people (like you?) to pass stress tests with flying colors (be asymptomatic) and (sometimes) have heart attacks relatively soon after.

Have you ever been sleepy after a high-fat meal? Why do you think that happens?

[pamojja]

Have you ever been sleepy after a high-fat meal? Why do you think that happens?

The opposite. I eat only twice a day. With enough fat and protein in my breakfast I feel full until dinner. Only short before dinner I fell sleepy a bit, but then it (with enough fats) always gives me a second wind.

Why do you think I should feel sleepy right after a high-fat meal?

[jimmylesante]

Have you ever been sleepy after a high-fat meal? Why do you think that happens?

After protein and fat say lots of biltong (or beef jerky) to you Americans i just feel full for ages. After a packet of crisps and a few white bread rolls i feel sleepy after wards but i guessed this was from the sugar and carbs which spike my Insulin then drop it.
I guess fat and protein would take longer to digest and so more oxygenated blood pumped towards the stomach area would leave less oxygen for the rest of the body???
Or perhaps the vagus nerve in the stomach is activated more after eating which slows everything down?

[pamojja]

ALL oils destroy the endothelium. Other foods too. This can be easily tested and has been tested using the brachial artery tourniquet test. Are you familiar with that test?

I mentioned the study with olive oil to emphasize the point that favorable lipid profiles do not guarantee healthy arteries. Many in this crowd probably realize that, but many in the rest of the world don't. Some don't here too.

Many individual tests - be it the brachial arthery tourniquet or lipid profiles - just don't correlate that much with serious endpoints, like premature mortality.

Sometimes not even with soft results, for example the ABI, which in my case was worst when my pain-free walking distance from my stenosis the longest.

[jimmylesante]

I hate to say it but maybe Blade has a good point in the fact that oils etc may only hurt your endothelial cells if you have a distinct lack of Vit C.
For example the typical person on a Paleo/Banting diet thinks all protein and fat is ok and never ever eat enough vegetables to supply the protection against too much protein and fat.
Exercise causes damage to muscle cells(perhaps even to the vascular cells?) but exercise over all is still good for you. Perhaps even better if you were loaded up on antioxidants to fix things quickly?
Clearly you can tell i'm struggling to digest that ALL oils are bad for you

[exitium]

This is an interesting thread.
Olive oil i don't touch, particularly alleged "extra virgin olive oil" as it is misrepresented terribly.
I'm sure the bears don't eat McDonalds and biscuits etc as well. Do animals die when their vitamin C runs out??
I guess normally we'd avoid eating large amounts of oils in the wild. Gerson avoided aromatic oils but allowed the flax seed? More research for me
Who's this guy Norman Walker? Lived to 117 using juices.

This is an interesting thread.

I dont necessarily believe that "normally we'd avoid eating large amounts of oils in the wild". On the contrary. many people who "live off the land" so to speak consume large amounts of animal fat because they need the calories to survive, especially in the winter. Perhaps not exactly what you meant by "oils". In the Mediterranean area though I do believe historically oils were very often consumed so I suppose it depends where one lived.

There was a guy some time ago who claimed it wasnt the fat that was the problem but weather or not the fat was "rancid" that caused all the problems. His claim was most processing methods today employ heat etc that actually cause the oil to become rancid and its properties to change and it was this change in the oils that made them harmful.

[blade]

Have you ever been sleepy after a high-fat meal? Why do you think that happens?

Why do you think I should feel sleepy right after a high-fat meal?

sounds like Postprandial somnolence

you have an insulin spike which drives most amino acids into cells., except neutral AA which go into the brain and increase serotinin and cause you to get sleepy
or are your meals carb free?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postprandial_somnolence

[blade]

[blade]

Have you ever been sleepy after a high-fat meal? Why do you think that happens?

After protein and fat say lots of biltong (or beef jerky) to you Americans i just feel full for ages. After a packet of crisps and a few white bread rolls i feel sleepy after wards but i guessed this was from the sugar and carbs which spike my Insulin then drop it.
I guess fat and protein would take longer to digest and so more oxygenated blood pumped towards the stomach area would leave less oxygen for the rest of the body???
Or perhaps the vagus nerve in the stomach is activated more after eating which slows everything down?

right, dr levy talks about this, in a video on youtube about how protein takes longer to digest than carbs and when eaten together, ie from his site I did find this
http://www.peakenergy.com/articles/nh20 ... -Toxicity/

The way back to a normal gut

1. Proper food combining. The wrong foods together slow gut movement to a snail's pace.
2. Thorough chewing. Simple, but almost always overlooked.
3. Minimal fluid with meals. Your digestive enzymes need to be supplemented, not diluted.
4. Minimization (but not elimination!) of meat. Beyond a few ounces, it's almost impossible to thoroughly digest.
5. Minimize high glycemic index foods.
6. Completely avoid milk as beverage. Milk combines horribly with just about everything, while supplying vastly too much calcium.

but yeah, eating crisps(sugar) with protein/fat would still cause an insuln spike/. postprandial response which , as you thought, has to do with Amino acids going into the brain
vagus nerve? no

[blade]

[blade]

Clearly you can tell i'm struggling to digest that ALL oils are bad for you

that's why I'm still trying to figure out why/how fat damages the endothelium/Endothelial progenitor cells?

ALl fats must have something in common?
Flow mediated dilatation (FMD), a largely endothelium dependent process, was depressed in normal subjects after a fat mea
FMD in normal subjects was depressed after a fat meal but this effect was prevented if vitamin C and E were given immediately prior

--cardiovascular research
http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org ... t/43/2/308

or maybe we dont need to know why/how it happens, we just have to know it happens!
eat low fat has so many benefits, I see no benefits to eating high fat

like ornish tells us
Adopting a very-low-fat vegan diet for at least 1 year increased the intake of several dietary constituents that may reduce the risk of many chronic diseases such as
cancer, CVD, diabetes, and age-related macular degeneration, and decreased the intake of dietary components that have been implicated with an increased risk of these
health problems
http://www.ornishspectrum.com/wp-conten ... reases.pdf

and even this retarded dude tries to sum up
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Ornish_Diet.aspx