Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#16  Post by Robaltap » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:16 am

I'm sorry, but the difference in pulse on each hand is due our wrist monitor, we've tried to count it ourselves & it is almost the same on both hands (around 100 per minute).

There's no T3 in results, I'll try to figure out why.

As for potassium - we weren't going to experiment & take too much, she was taking mostly just the amount recommended on the bottle (365 mg) wich is much lower than RDA... And we already quit taking it about 10 days ago (I thought I mentioned it, but I didn't, sorry), when I've read your warning. But unfortunately it didn't changed anything.

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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#17  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:54 am

Perhaps a short summary then of the current situation - what she is on and current symptoms?
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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#18  Post by Robaltap » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:33 am

ofonorow wrote:Perhaps a short summary then of the current situation - what she is on and current symptoms?


Symptoms: first of all she has constant pulse rate around 100 (mostly 95-125) since ~10-12 of december & at first (before all the holidays) she felt allright, even not noticing the pulse at all, then in the end of december she started to have this "visual fatigue" I've described earlier (she often closes her eyes when watching TV or something like that & when we ask her how she feels she's saying that she's ok & just "tired to watch and it feels better with eyes closed") and now, after the holidays (and all the holidays meal) she feels notably worse - she has strong back pain, heavy fatigue, wants to sleep most of the time, doesn't have any appetite for couple of days already & depressed.
My amateur theory is that the "holidays diet" washed out her nutrients, notably B-vitamins & her body now starving of it but at the same time she can't get it back through diet & supplements yet because of depression & the absence of appetite. Maybe I'm wrong and all this is due something that causes her pulse rate increase since beginning of december...
We will check her adrenals as Johnwen suggested, but I would be very appreciated if I could get an advice on exact tests that are necessary since adrenals testing is indeed more complex than thyroid & we better know what to check.

What she's on:
Vitamin C (several teaspoons a day, we try to give her as much as we can & it hits bowel tolerance very rarely, almost never)
Taurine (1-1,5 tsp a day)
L-lysine (1,8 tsp a day)
B-100 (2-3 times a day)
Iron (she has low hemoglobin & takes 18mg caps 3 times a day)
D&K (1000UI of D & 100mcg of K-2 (MK-4) twice a day)
B-6 (100mg once a day, before sleep)
Niacin (250mg 1-2 a day)
Magnesium (250mg twice a day)
Glycin (around 3 tsp a day)
Q10 (200mg 2-3 a day)
Omega-3 (1100mg twice a day)

and drugs:
Preductal MR (Trimetazidine) 2 tablets of 35mg a day
Cardiomagnyl (acetylsalicylic acid + Magnesium hydroxide 150mg+30,39mg in one tablet) 0,5 tablet a day

Forgot to mention - she also has shortness of breath now & when she speaks it sounds like every word is being interrupted after each syllable. So now I really worried about that potassium chloride we took, but then again it wasn't too much (it was mostly 365mg per day & just several days or a week when she took 2-3 times more than that but it was like 1-1,5 months ago & she's not taking it for about 18 days already).

Thank you!

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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#19  Post by ofonorow » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:18 am

Vitamin E? (and A?) to match Pauling's basic recommendations.

Shortness of breath and back pain could be a major red flag - indicating her output of cortisol by adrenals is subpar and her pericardial sac is filling. (I've been through this.) If doctor offers prednisone (cortisol replacement) she should take it. No matter what they prescribe, after initial high dose, keep it between 1 mg and 4 mg over long periods.. Saliva test before taking predisone can be used to find out of "adrenal insufficiency" is the problem - i.e. low cortisol.
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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#20  Post by Robaltap » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:28 am

Yes, she was taking vitamin E in 2014 for a long time with very slow build up to 400IU (or it was 800IU), but then after she had another stroke we were very unsure about dosage, since according to everything I've read it is indeed one of the most important heart vitamins but at the same time one of those that should be taken with caution (long build up from low dosage to high etc) especially with those patients that had heart strokes in the past. So we just couldn't find anyone professional enough around to help us find the right dosage & so she's not taking it since.
As for A - I was confused also of it's different types & couldn't find the right one (maybe I need to research it more now) so it looked like it is easier to just consume carrot & it's juice (& I must admit she's not taking it much right now) than find the right type of the supplements. Maybe I'm wrong.

Thank you for cortisol suggestion. We will check if it could be the problem.

I've also forgot to write earlier that she also had her feet swollen for several days during holidays (too much salt in holiday diet I guess) & as for today it's back to normal (maybe it is because she's fasting right now as she still doesn't have appetite) but now her face looks swollen. She also had nausea with vomiting yesterday & today & I don't know if it helps but I think I've noticed iron smell in the room after she threw up. So we also quit taking iron for now as her hemoglobin almost normal now (she had low).
And the last thing I probably should to mention is that - as I asked for advice in other topic here - she has the problem with gallstones, so if it started to move during holidays due to all the diet changes than it also could contribute to her current condition I guess (even though she had her pulse rate rise before she started to have the pain in back and abdominal area these days). Quite a puzzle...

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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#21  Post by jimmylesante » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:45 am

Some of what you say seems to indicate a heart and/or lung issue. As Owen says, perhaps pericarditis. Or emboli in the lungs.
I'm not an expert though- but would check the worst case scenario.

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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#22  Post by Robaltap » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:40 pm

I'm reading right now about vitamin C & it's effect on renal function & there are some things that I'm concerned & would be appreciated to have an advice on that. According to Riordan C Protocol & some other papers I'll provide below there is some risk of using high doses of VC in cases with exsisting renal problems etc.

Here is Riordan Protocol: http://www.doctoryourself.com/RiordanIVC.pdf
the info I'm talking about is on pages 11-14

And here are two pages from other source describing similar concerns:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 33/?page=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 33/?page=2

The thing is that besides everything I've described earlier on my grandmother condition it turned out than she also were diagnosed with cyst in the kidney very long ago (I'll clear this out if needed), so that means she has some "exsisting kidney problems" & therefore at risk of using high doses of oral VC?

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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#23  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:25 am

Without studying those papers, from my previous knowledge, there is no or little risk of taking oral vitamin C. Riordin was giving up to 200 grams intravenously. Also your patient doesn't sound like she is in renal failure (other than the original report of thick yellow urine). I doubt vitamin C is her problem.

Since she is not taking vitamin E - and surprisingly still alive, I will review this important essential substance. Vitamin E is extremely safe, and it is a fat soluble antioxidant, meaning it protects cell membranes. Long ago, I guessed that not taking vitamin E for a short period, after taking it for years, causes heart attacks. This happened to my father (took it his entire life, ran out , didn't buy more and had his massive heart attack at age 68) and my half-brother. Same thing, ran out, decided not to by more and perhaps 1-2 months later (other old posts have exact interval) he had a major heart attack. I speculated that it had something to do with the blood cell gestation in the bone marrow, because the time interval not taking vitamin E matched the length of time blood cells are developed in the marrow.

Anyway, this guess has been confirmed in a big way. Nothing is more predictive of a heart attack than low vitamin E in the blood. I have posted this at PaulingTherapy.com so it is easy to find.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1985406
Vitamin E
Linus Pauling long recommended 400 to 800 iu of vitamin E for cardiovascular disease. Several authors have pointed to an extensive study conducted by the World Health Organization on thousands of men and women from sixteen nations. The study illustrated that a low level of vitamin E in the blood was more than twice as predictive of heart attack than either high cholesterol or high blood pressure. Inverse correlation between plasma vitamin E and mortality from ischemic heart disease in cross-cultural epidemiology.

Note: We recommend the original Unique-E brand of Vitamin E from A. C. Grace.


Back to your post, if you are concerned about renal function - hydrate. The more water she drinks the better, and Pauling's own experience indicates the less protein, the better.

I don't remember hearing about the strokes, but this indicates she should be taking CoQ10, vitamin C/lysine. (Another long story, but if brain cells are saturated with CoQ10 - they can survive stroke damage (loss of oxygen) far longer.)

Swollen feet/edema can be symptomatic of heart failure - which is a CoQ10 deficiency. It can also be caused because the body is craving sodium, so her body is limiting urine outflow in an effort to preserve what little sodium there is (sodium in the blood should be the same concentration as the ocean). An easy fix is using unrefined sea salt to give her sodium (as opposed to the highly refined table salt) Salt restriction creates a hormonal situation that Dr. David Brownstein suggests increases the likelihood of a heart attack by more than 400% (ref: His book SALT).

Finally, I have learned that the lack of cortisol (or perhaps some combination of adrenal failure) leads to fluid build-up, in my case, the pericardial sac around the heart. I have enough experience to know that high doses of cortisol (e.g. methyl prednisolone) can encourage the fluids to dry up.
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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#24  Post by Robaltap » Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:47 pm

This helps a lot, thank you very much! And again something I couldn't find in books (I usually look through Hoffer & Saul books). If you decide to collect all such information from other topics here & compile a book I would buy it for sure. :)

I think today was the best day of my grandmother's condition after the holidays. She feels much better overall, still have pulse around 100 but she doesn't have such pain & she's in positive mood now (and appetite). I'm not sure what was it - her fast, iron supplements cancellation or VC (or all of this), but it looks like she's improving now.
We'll do the tests & see if cortisol is the cause (& also if there was iron overload).

I definitely will add sea salt to her diet & consider supplementing E now, but could you please write about optimal dosage in her age & condition? I mean I've read (here for example http://www.doctoryourself.com/shute_protocol.html) that if someone had strokes etc in the past (she had two) than it should be started with very small amount and build up very slowly & be very cautious in choosing the dose since E tend to strengthen heart beats. In 2014 we started from as low as 30UI a day and built up to 400-800UI (don't remember exact amount) of alpha-tocopherol (I know now that mixed tocopherols are better, so will try it this time).

And yes, she takes L-Lysine (1,8 tsp a day in two separate doses) & CoQ10, 200mg 2-3 times a day.

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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#25  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:21 am

Glad she is feeling better. I have no quarrel with starting vitamin E slow (as it will improve heart (and brain) function. As long as you are also supplementing vitamin C and lysine, her collagen production should improve, strengthening all her arteries - including the brain, so the fear of "too strong a heart" shouldn't cause fear.
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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#26  Post by Robaltap » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:20 pm

The next day after I wrote the previous post about her feeling much better she again felt much worse & I decided to take some time on research & also see her condition in dynamic for several days & now we still puzzled with the following: the next day after her "fast" & feeling much better she suddenly felt worse, even fell on the floor once without having any strength to stand up & we had to help her to get to bed. Then her daughter (my mother) suggested that she may have allergic reaction to one of the drugs she's taking - Digoxin (I think I forgot to mention this one in previous posts, sorry) - & as we quit giving it to her my grandmother improved notably in a day or so. But at the same time as she started to have appetite (not that great) & started to eat she's now having extreme fatigue (along with ongoing back & abdominal pain, swollen face, heavy sweating & her pulse is not constant high but sometimes is still raising up to around 100 beats). But her urine doesn't have any strong smell now & she mostly sleeps now. Also the day she felt worse (after that good day) the doctors came & they did EKG wich showed that her heart is fine. What scares us is also her rapid worsening of short-term memory & overall "brain function", as she can ask questions like if she's at her home or her daughter's (we live close to each other, but not understanding in wich house/room etc you are is something beyond us) etc.. I'm very worried about her since I just don't get it. And her fatigue is obstacle to do all the tests we need to see if it is cortisol or something else.

Btw, if it really was the toxicity of Digoxin - should she also quit taking other chemical drugs, in particular Preductal MR (Trimetazidine) & Ivabradine?

I also wonder if it is ok in her condition to continue take K2 in the amount of 45mg (MK4) daily & vitamin D (this one http://www.vitacost.com/natures-plus-vi ... n-capsules) 3000-5000IU a day?

Sorry for such a long discussion & lot of questions!
Last edited by Robaltap on Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#27  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:24 am

I hope you meant 45 milligrams K2 (not grams) but to my mind, this is excessive. We know that perhaps 150 micrograms can reverse hardening of the arteries. So the 1 to 2 mg in a Super-K tablet from LEF.ORG qualifies as a "megadose" of vitamin K. I am not expert in vitamin K.

As far as the fatigue and pain, cortisol is involved, even if she has some kind of abdominal cancer causing the stress that her adrenals cannot keep up with. Is she still not getting supplement vitamin C?
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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#28  Post by Johnwen » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:55 am

I would like to suggest Robaltap read the side effects of Trimetazidine.
You’ll note that this is for Vasteral MR. The only one I could find for Preductal MR is in Serbian but from what I’m finding their the same.

From what I’m reading in these is it looks like a lot of her symptoms are listed here. The one thing I noticed here is how it effects the thyroid by knocking it into a HYPO state along with almost all of her other symptoms including the tachy condition he’s most concerned with. I leave it up to him if he see’s a possibility it’s this drug knocking her for a loop!

These are PDF files:

This is the Vasteral MR in English!

http://www.servier.com.pk/sites/default ... 2035mg.pdf

This is the Preductal MR in Serbian.

http://www.servier.rs/sites/default/fil ... l%20MR.pdf
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#29  Post by Robaltap » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:53 pm

ofonorow wrote:I hope you meant 45 milligrams K2 (not grams) but to my mind, this is excessive. We know that perhaps 150 micrograms can reverse hardening of the arteries. So the 1 to 2 mg in a Super-K tablet from LEF.ORG qualifies as a "megadose" of vitamin K. I am not expert in vitamin K.


Yes, I mean milligrams, sorry for misprint. But in my other topic about my grandmother's calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels you wrote that 45mg is the exact amount it is needed for calification reversal & Johnwen supported it by writting "Your K2 plan is excellent and don’t stop this" there: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11458 Did I get something wrong?

ofonorow wrote:As far as the fatigue and pain, cortisol is involved, even if she has some kind of abdominal cancer causing the stress that her adrenals cannot keep up with. Is she still not getting supplement vitamin C?


She's taking quite a lot of VC daily. Sometimes even hitting bowel tollerance.

The thing is that she improved notably in recent days because it looks like that Digoxin poisoning really was at least the big (if not the biggest) part of the problem. We were recommended to hydrate her & then give her some diuretic & it worked - the first time she urinated after taking it her urine was... well let's just say it looked like she was cleansed & after that everything became normal (I mean urine) & she greatly improved as concerning her fatigue etc. I mean she still has it (along with swelling & high pulse from time to time) but looks like every new day is a bit better than the previous one.

Johnwen wrote:I would like to suggest Robaltap read the side effects of Trimetazidine.
You’ll note that this is for Vasteral MR. The only one I could find for Preductal MR is in Serbian but from what I’m finding their the same.
From what I’m reading in these is it looks like a lot of her symptoms are listed here.


Thank you, I'll give it a read.

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Re: Pulse rate raise up to 100-120 for a week already

Post Number:#30  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:00 am

Yes, i was quoting Dr. Levy from his book Death By Calcium because the dosages for K2 were surprising, to say the least. I know the deep level and detail of research Dr. Levy performas, but I personally have no experience with those dosages. I did discover that 150 MICROGRAMS per day for 1 year seemed to resolve arterial calcification in the late founder of Tower Laboratories.

Sounds like she is taking vitamin C and feeling better.
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