German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Frodo
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#226  Post by Frodo » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:48 am

Background to my question is that I take a very critical view of this (relatively new) risk marker.
BNP is supposed to be a marker for the condition of the myocardium and is released by the heart muscle cells, for example when the blood pressure increases.
It is used in diagnostic and therapy of heart failure.

I think, it‘s a marker for the drug and cut medicine. (My cardiologist said it‘s a very important marker and you have to check it. I‘ll do it no more)

What would drug and cut medicine do? Beta blockers, antihypertensives, bloodthinners etc. And to avoid effort and pressure. (But I like effort and I am sure, it‘s not bad for my heart)

I think, the way of drug and cut medicine is not the right way to go. That would make everything even worse and wouldn‘t have the real cause - according to Pauling/Rath - as its goal.

(I hope, my question is easier to understand in this background)

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#227  Post by ofonorow » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:10 am

Personally I have no knowledge of that blood factor, but if it is related to exertion/heart failure, it MAY be a signal that you require extra Coenzyme Q10.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#228  Post by Frodo » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:42 am

Thank you, Owen. I had a hunch.

Has this alleged risk value ever been measured by anyone in the forum?

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#229  Post by Frodo » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:51 am

The german doctor and bestseller author („forever young“ books) Ulrich Strunz advised me to ask the cardiologist about the BNP value for athletes. And not for normal patients/people. :D
I‘m sure, he‘s right about that. That was the reason for my higher value. And the cardiologist doesn‘t know something like that.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#230  Post by Frodo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:24 am

The German Uwe Gröber says in his book „Orthomolekulare Medizin“:

„In a study of patients with elevated lp(a) values, the daily administration of 2000-4000 mg NAC over 8 weeks led to a drastic reduction of lp(a) values by almost 70%“ (translated version).

I‘ve never heard of it before. And I couldn‘t find the study.

The only study I found, says: There wasn’t a change.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1836221

Does anyone know the study?

I asked Uwe Gröber and I hope he‘ll answer.

But I take NAC anyway, though not so much. And I‘ll just give it a try.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#231  Post by pamojja » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:45 am

By the way, are you're taking aged garlic extract? Because I came across this study which found even with such a low dose as 250 mg/d there was a increase in Lp(a).

Aged garlic extract supplemented with B vitamins, folic acid and l-arginine retards the progression of subclinical atherosclerosis: A randomized clinical trial.

Results

At 1 year, CAC progression was significantly lower and TR significantly higher in the AGE + S compared to the placebo group after adjustment of cardiovascular risk factors (p < 0.05). Total cholesterol, LDL-C, homocysteine, IgG and IgM autoantibodies to MDA-LDL and apoB-immune complexes were decreased, whereas HDL, OxPL/apoB, and Lp (a) were significantly increased in AGE + S to placebo.


Could be the case with me, if I look at the correlation of Lp(a) the last years and aged garlic ext intake:

Code: Select all

year Lp(a) mg_Kyolic

2009   57    200
2010   47    690
2011   59    870
2012   55    830
2013   43    790
2014   47    420
2015   35    180
2016   51    620
2017   45    820
2018   58   1140

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#232  Post by Frodo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:14 am

Hi pamojja

It isn‘garlic.

NAC is produced from amino acid cysteine by acetylation.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#233  Post by jimmylesante » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:32 am

„In a study of patients with elevated lp(a) values, the daily administration of 2000-4000 mg NAC over 8 weeks led to a drastic reduction of lp(a) values by almost 70%“ (translated version).
This is interesting as i have tonnes of NAC and was thinking of doing NAC pushes via IV . I'd also like to find the study

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#234  Post by pamojja » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:47 am

Frodo wrote:It isn‘garlic.

NAC is produced from amino acid cysteine by acetylation.


I'm aware that N-acetyl cysteine is different from garlic. Just thought would mention an other factor possibly at play with high Lp(a) values, as it seems in my case.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#235  Post by johnjackson » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:41 am

jimmylesante wrote:„ . I'd also like to find the study

I'm taking about 3000mcg daily, but i'd love to see the study
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#236  Post by Frodo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:32 am

I‘m still searching. And I‘ll report.
Uwe Gröber is a pharmacist and his books are wellknown in Germany (in U.S. I don‘t know. But, for example, he wrote a book together with Michael Holick). I hope he‘ll answer to my question.
I‘ll try to ask also the Dr. Rath team.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#237  Post by Frodo » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:19 am

The Rath Team answered:

Study (2013) with diabetics: 1200 mg NAC did not lead to any significant change in values
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3886171/

Study 1991: no clinically significant changes
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1836221

Study 1991: good results with NAC in 2 patients (reduction of lp(a) values up to 70%
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1670844
Since these are only case studies, the results cannot be transferred for general purposes
(I think that is the study Uwe Gröber meant. The results cannot really convince, but I‘ll try it)

Uwe Gröber himself didn‘t answer yet.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#238  Post by Frodo » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:20 am

I‘d like to read the whole „NAC study“. Is it available for free somewhere? (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1670844)

I found further studies in my search that suggest that estrogen also reduces lp(a), in 14 of 15 patients.

NAC? Two studies negative, one study positive - but only in 2 cases.
Estrogen? (reduction in 14 of 15 patients - at least remarkable).

If it’s really right, I don‘t understand the mechanism because lp(a) is a „surrogate for ascorbate“ according to Pauling/Rath.

Or are the studies wrong?

Can you help with an iformation, Owen?

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#239  Post by pamojja » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:30 am

Frodo wrote:Estrogen? (reduction in 14 of 15 patients - at least remarkable).


For males it would be testosterone, according to Dr. William Davis:

Lipoprotein(a) is reduced by:

  • Niacin is the most effective direct treatment for Lp(a). However, higher doses may be required than for other abnormalities like low HDL or small LDL. The niacin preparations we favor are prescription Niaspan® (Kos Pharmaceuticals) or over-the-counter Slo-Niacin® (Upsher-Smith). Both are better tolerated than over-the-counter “immediate-release” niacin, which tends to cause intolerable hot flushing. However, immediate-release niacin is otherwise safe but should not be taken more frequently than twice a day. All three preparations are very safe, with little risk of liver toxicity if taken properly. Total daily niacin doses of >500 mg should be taken with the supervision of a physician.
  • Estrogen in females may lower Lp(a) around 25%, though estrogen, of course, has other considerations that need to be fully discussed with your doctor. Testosterone can be helpful for men and reduces Lp(a) by 25%. We use testosterone cream with great success. (A common dose for men >50 years old is 50 mg twice per day of a topical cream; dosing is best based on blood levels and must be prescribed). For any hormonal preparation, we advise bio-identical human preparations, i.e, preparations that are identical to the human form, not Premarin® or other non-human forms.
  • L-carnitine can be a useful nutritional supplement; 2000–4000 mg per day (e.g., 1000 mg twice a day) can reduce Lp(a) 7–8%, and occasionally will reduce it up to 20%. The only drawback is cost; it can be pretty pricey. L-carnitine is not powerful enough to be used as sole treatment, however. It’s better as an adjunct with either niacin and/or hormones.
  • Ground flaxseed (2–3 Tbsp/day) exerts a modest effect of no more than 7% Lp(a) reduction, but it’s healthy effects on reducing LDL and perhaps small LDL make it a useful adjunct. Use it as a hot cereal or added to yogurt or other foods. The seeds must be ground (e.g., purchased ground or ground in your coffee grinder).
  • Almonds—Preferably raw or dry roasted (with no added ingredients like hydrogenated oils), ¼–1/2 cup/day, are our favorite, as they not only reduce Lp(a) but also reduce LDL and partly counteract the small LDL particle abnormality.
  • Vitamin C—1000–3000 mg/day, with reported reductions of approximately 7%.

Track Your Plaque target: If measured in nmol/l, <75 nmol/l is desirable. In mg/dl, <30 mg/dl is desirable. (However, because of the lack of standardization, “normal” values in your laboratory may vary, depending on the means of measurement; discuss with your doctor.)

Copyright 2006, Track Your Plaque.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#240  Post by jimmylesante » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:59 am

I'm taking about 3000mcg daily, but i'd love to see the study???
You mean 3mg?
I put 1gram into a drip.


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