German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Frodo
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#256  Post by Frodo » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:40 am

And another renowned lab to my question concerning the particle size:
„The topic lp(a) determination is and remains difficult. We measure lp(a) directly with the help of anti-apoA antibodies. Since apoA shows a very large size variability, mass determinations (mg) are afflicted with a much larger error than quantities (mol). Unfortunately, there is no real differentiation according to particle size.“

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#257  Post by johnjackson » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:12 am

Ive always wondered why particle size matters?
What does a person do different depending on size?

HDL Levels and Particle Size: Does Size Matter at Both Ends of the Scale?
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/559351_3
Relationship Between HDL Particle Size and Coronary Artery Disease Risk

One of the effects of CETP inhibition is an increase in HDL particle size, and because the adverse effects of torcetrapib became apparent, it has been hypothesized that the increase in size induced by CETP inhibition might affect the antiatherogenic capacity of the HDL particles, resulting in less functional or even dysfunctional HDL. In another analysis presented at the 2007 EAS meeting, it was suggested that, after adjustment for apoA-I and apoB levels, very large HDL particles would be associated with an increased risk for coronary artery disease. This observation may have consequences for the development of novel compounds targeting HDL, Dr. van der Steeg predicted.[6]

He and his colleagues carried out a case-control study of participants in the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC)-Norfolk. EPIC-Norfolk was a prospective population study of 25,663 men and women aged 45-79 years residing in
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#258  Post by ofonorow » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:56 am

According to Lp(a) experts, the smaller Lp(a) molecules are, the more dangerous they are & the more likely a large build-up of atherosclerosis.

So you get a mass reading that sounds like high Lp(a). But if the Lp(a) particles are large, it is misleading, because a smaller "mass" of smaller Lp(a) particles is potentially more dangerous.

This is the problem that led to the change from mg/dl to nmol/l - as the latter is a measure of particles.
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#259  Post by Frodo » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:37 am

Next monday I‘ll have a cardiac exam and I‘ll check my lp(a) again. I‘ll report on it.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#260  Post by Frodo » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:42 am

Is it better not to eat (and drink) before the lpa-check?

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#261  Post by ofonorow » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:31 am

I do not know the answer. Cholesterol varies depending on drink/diet, but I don't see how/why that should affect a blood Lp(a) reading. When do you get the results, Lp(a) measured, we hope :-)
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#262  Post by Frodo » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:16 pm

Owen

I already have my results. I‘m afraid they‘re not :D .
Lp(a) is almost the same as the last measurement (238 nmol). What could be the reason that the value has risen so much? Lp(a) had dropped continiously in all previous measuremnets (to around 130 nmol). And now I‘m sure, it wasn‘t a lab error, because I‘ve assigned another lab.
Could it be that my blood was too thick, because I hadn‘t drunk enough? Or could inflammatory processes in the hip joint be responsible?

The other values are ok. Cholesterol 247 (look at the high hdl), hdl 102, ldl 142 and triglycerides 20 (all mg/dl).

Echocardiography was ok - except for the scar from the heart attack. As well the electrocardiogram.
Ejection fraction (ef) 50%.
And the best: I‘ve no problems. No angina.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#263  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:41 pm

I was speaking with a man today who has mixed his own Pauling therapy for years, and while I am not sure of the units, his lp(a) was very high (over 200) , but went down (he thought to less than 10 on his own formula.

He said that the last few visits, his Lp(a) had "risen" to around 200 - and was constant the readings after that. He didn't believe it, and neither to do I. In the USA, the FDA allows labs to compute, rather than measurer Lp(a). These computations rarely make sense.

I suspect, but cannot know, that an accurate Lp(a) measurement would tell a different story in your case.
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#264  Post by Frodo » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:14 am

Do the blood values change when the blood is too thick?

A laboratory physician answered my question:
„I can‘t give a well-founded answer to this question because there are no relevant data available. Blood values fluctuate fundamentally for biological reasons during various measurements. Purely in principle, your assumption is logical, whether it makes a significant difference, however, is not clear.“

That‘s very interesting. I guess you have to evaluate the blood values a little more accurately. I‘m gonna to test this.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#265  Post by Frodo » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:08 am

The renowned german doctor Ulrich Strunz (One of the best and certainly also known in US) wrote to me:
„Of course you‘re right. But it passes the point. Lp(a) is a yes/no question for me. Most people have zero. Always. And if something is there, the value can vary.“

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#266  Post by ofonorow » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:41 am

Most people have zero? Odd. That's like saying most people don't have heart disease.
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#267  Post by Frodo » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:16 am

Owen

Of course, you are right!!!
Dr. Strunz thinks differently about lp(a) and cholesterol.

But he‘s an absolute expert on blood analysis and blood values. And both Dr. Strunz and the renowned laboratory physician say that the blood values can change if the blood is too thick (or too thin) at the time of blood collection.
This is new to me, and I also think for most doctors. I‘m sure that my blood was too thick during the last two tests. Because I had drunk too little and excreted too much. And then you get an „off the peg“ rating that doesn‘t take that into account.

It‘s different with micronutrients. Some labs already assess them in haematocrit-related terms, taking into account how thick or thin the blood is.

I think that are interesting news. I‘ll test it myself and take in as much fluid I can before the next blood test.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#268  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:59 am

And we must have already gone over the fact that if for some reason, you aren't responding to the Pauling/Rath invention, and your Lp(a) really is elevated, then there is nothing more important to do than keep taking high doses of their invention, Lp(a) Binding Inhibitors.
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#269  Post by Frodo » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:07 am

My family doctor told me that the blood values naturally change if the blood is too thick or too thin. This must then be taken into account in the evaluation.
I don‘t know if she was only talking about micronutrients or also about all the other blood values. But she‘s one of the best doctors I know - like Dr. Strunz.
It is well known that the body l o s e s micronutrients through heavy sweating and frequent excretions. Then the blood values for these substances decrease. But I had never heard so far that blood values like lp(a), cholesterol, triglycerides etc. could be elevated if the blood is too thick. I‘m also not aware of any studies in which this has been proven.
I think that‘s very interesting, especially the question which blood values could be affected. And in what proportion.
I‘ll just test it out for myself. Once with too thick blood and once with thin blood - after drinking a lot of water :D

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#270  Post by ofonorow » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:57 am

At one time, there were "home cholesterol tests" something like a glucose finger prick test. Forum members experimented (I think the test strips were about $1 each) and we learned that cholesterol varied considerably based on the diet. Sweet wine created a higher level than a dry wine, etc. This variation is the reason why you are usually required to fast prior to blood tests.
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