Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#1  Post by Lone Dog » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:42 am

"The aortic arch, thoracic aorta and serum were obtained from apolipoprotein E (ApoE) knockout mice fed for 10 weeks with high-fat diet and then treated with CS (300 mg/kg, n = 15) or vehicle (n = 15) for 4 weeks. Atheromatous plaques were highlighted in aortas with Oil Red staining and analysed by microscopy. ApoE knockout mice treated with CS exhibited attenuated atheroma lesion size by 68% as compared with animals receiving vehicle. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6238215/

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Re: Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:14 am

Thank you for the link/paper. Dr. Levy includes a chapter in STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER devoted to Chondroitin Sulfate, which is where I first learned of its value for heart disease.

The problem relating the above paper to humans is that we are "knockout-GULO" beings. Our defect is not being able to produce ascorbate (vitamin C). Recently, Dr. Rath and his team has studied GULO-Knockout mice, with results that support the Pauling/Rath unified theory.



Am J Cardiovasc Dis. 2015 Mar 20;5(1):53-62. eCollection 2015.
Hypoascorbemia induces atherosclerosis and vascular deposition of lipoprotein(a) in transgenic mice.
Cha J1, Niedzwiecki A1, Rath M1.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=vitamin+C%2C+lipoprotein(a)+and+atherosclerosis+by+John+Cha+GULO+mice


youtube direct link
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#3  Post by johnjackson » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:30 pm

ofonorow wrote:[b][color=#000080]Thank you for the link/paper. Dr. Levy includes a chapter in STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER devoted to Chondroitin Sulfate, which is where I first learned of its value for heart disease.

is that worth adding to the PT ?

I use and tell others to do PT
5+ gramsAA spread over the day
lysine/proline(5+ grams)
vitk2

anything else?

thanks!

I mean, i know Levys says
-make sure hormones are in range
-vit D stats
-TSH status
-
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#4  Post by pamojja » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:26 am

johnjackson wrote:is that worth adding to the PT ?


Here an article of an old clinical experience with chondroitin sulfate: http://knowledgeofhealth.com/the-man-wh ... rol-drugs/

If its worth adding depends if PT alone is working for you. The only way to know for sure are repeated CAC scores, or ultrasonography of max. CIMT, or arterial examination in the cath lab. All other blood-markers including Lp(a) are only 'risk-markers', which only mean you're at somewhat higher risk, but don's show if plaque growth is progressing or regressing at all.

So without taking at least one of these imaging tests, one can't know Pauling therapy is really working. Unless debilitating symptoms, like angina pains, walking pain, etc. is indeed remedied with Pauling therapy right away.

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Re: Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#5  Post by johnjackson » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:11 pm

pamojja wrote:
johnjackson wrote:is that worth adding to the PT ?


Here an article of an old clinical experience with chondroitin sulfate: http://knowledgeofhealth.com/the-man-wh ... rol-drugs/

If its worth adding depends if PT alone is working for you. The only way to know for sure are repeated CAC scores, or ultrasonography of max. CIMT, or arterial examination in the cath lab. All other blood-markers including Lp(a) are only 'risk-markers', which only mean you're at somewhat higher risk, but don's show if plaque growth is progressing or regressing at all.

So without taking at least one of these imaging tests, one can't know Pauling therapy is really working. Unless debilitating symptoms, like angina pains, walking pain, etc. is indeed remedied with Pauling therapy right away.

ok I get what you are saying, I think,,,

so even if I have low Lp(a), to get the best picture of whether I have heart disease, i needed a CAC?

One of my friends had an Lp(a) test done, it was high...she started on PT
9grams AA
vit k2
niacin
lysine/proline
1.2 grams MG

she'll get retested in october and if the Lp(a) is lowered, then PT is working, if it is not, does that mean PT is not working?
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#6  Post by pamojja » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:31 am

johnjackson wrote:she'll get retested in october and if the Lp(a) is lowered, then PT is working, if it is not, does that mean PT is not working?


A low or high Lp(a) only shows the 'risk' is different, it doesn't show if plaque is regressing or progressing. Only imaging does.

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Re: Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#7  Post by johnjackson » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:58 am

pamojja wrote:
A low or high Lp(a) only shows the 'risk' is different, it doesn't show if plaque is regressing or progressing. Only imaging does.


so my Dad has a-fib and low lp(a), I dont know if it was measured or calculated.

but he is at low risk for a heart attack, even without imaging?

imaging only shows if plaque is changing?

I dont like CTs, can a CAC be done with MRI? I think so
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3259311/

but what will change my PT ? nothing, right? if i have a high CAC or low CAC, I'll still do what I'm doing
taking 10+ grams AA
vit k2
grams of lysine/proline
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#8  Post by pamojja » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:57 pm

johnjackson wrote:but he is at low risk for a heart attack, even without imaging?


That would be the case if Lp(a) would be the only risk factor. Sadly, there are too many things which can damage the endothelium and start the repair process of plaque-growth. Here a list of factors by a very knowledgeable cholesterol-skeptic:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2018/11/27/what-causes-heart-disease-part-59/

There are many, many, things that can do this. Here is a list. It is non-exhaustive, it is in no particular order, but it may give you some idea of the number of things that can cause CVD, by accelerating endothelial damage:

Smoking
Systemic Lupus Erythematosus
Use of oral steroids
Cushing’s disease
Kawasaki’s disease
Rheumatoid arthritis
High blood pressure
Omeprazole
Avastin
Thalidomide
Air pollution
Lead (the heavy metal)
Mercury
High blood sugar
Erythema nodosum
Rheumatoid arthritis
Low albumin
Acute physical stress
Acute mental stress
Chronic negative mental stress
Chronic Kidney Disease
Dehydration
Sickle cell disease
Malaria
Diabetes/high blood sugar level
Bacterial infections
Viral infections
Vitamin C deficiency
Vitamin B deficiency
High homocysteine level
Chronic kidney disease
Acute renal failure
Cocaine
Angiotensin II
Activation of the renin aldosterone angiotensin system (RAAS) etc.

Blimey, yes, that list was just off the top of my head, I could get you another fifty without much effort. And no, I did not just make it up. I have studied every single one of those factors, and many more, in exhaustive detail. The extent of how many factors there are, should not really come as a surprise to anyone, but it usually does.


johnjackson wrote:imaging only shows if plaque is changing?


Imaging shows if there is plaque (=disease process) to begin with. On repeat it shows if your interventions are working to reduce plaque.

johnjackson wrote:but what will change my PT ? nothing, right?


In my case where I could 'feel' the extent of my blockage by the length of pain-free walking distance - at worse only 300-400 meter - Pauling therapy worked too slow. I needed to raise all the doses and add a lot more to experience remission of the walking-disability after 6 years, finally.

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Re: Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#9  Post by johnjackson » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:40 pm

pamojja wrote:
johnjackson wrote:but he is at low risk for a heart attack, even without imaging?


That would be the case if Lp(a) would be the only risk factor. Sadly, there are too many things which can damage the endothelium and start the repair process of plaque-growth. Here a list of factors by a very knowledgeable cholesterol-skeptic:




sure, dont forgot being shot!??
or asteroid falling on someone's heads?

Lots of things cause death/heart attacks, but I'm talking about things we can measure,
we can measure CAC/lp(a)
so low Lp(a) then yeah, for a blockage, he is at a low risk of heart attack :D
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#10  Post by pamojja » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:18 am

johnjackson wrote:sure, dont forgot being shot!??
or asteroid falling on someone's heads?

Lots of things cause death/heart attacks, but I'm talking about things we can measure,


The most people die of is either calcification of arteries or cancer at old age. The only test which measures calcification is imaging, not Lp(a). Your friend has no disease of calcification if he measures it. Lp(a) doesn't measures calcification.

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Re: Chondroitin sulfate attenuates atherosclerosis in mice

Post Number:#11  Post by johnjackson » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:17 am

pamojja wrote:The most people die of is either calcification of arteries or cancer at old age. The only test which measures calcification is imaging, not Lp(a). Your friend has no disease of calcification if he measures it. Lp(a) doesn't measures calcification.

so would calcification of arteries be "heart disease"?
cause cdc says heart disease is #1 killer, so that would make sense.

No, he has no calficication in his heart and he has low Lp(a)
low Lp(a) mean low risk of heart attack BUT
but he has not have any imaging done, EXCEPT echo of his heart, which showed no calcification.

so I'd say he is pretty much in the clear
but I have him on
lysine/proline
k2
vit C
MG(1200mg/day since he has a-fib, but no attacks in last 6 months since increasing MG
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html


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