Sugar or No Sugar w/Pauling Therapy. That is the question...

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Sugar or No Sugar w/Pauling Therapy. That is the question...

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:11 am

Hi Owen, I contacting you because i've come across some conflicting information about the proper way to take the
pauling therapy. I came across the heart tower ascorsine 9 web site & they do not recommend taking their product
with juice or any simple carbohydrates as they say interferes with the pauling therapy being effective because of the
blood glucose. The cardio states to take with juice or water or meals.
I'm wondering if i've been taking the cardio c the wrong way & not getting the full benefits.
I always take mine with 4 oz of pom juice & always with food which includes carbs.
I'm hoping you can shed some light on this.
A long time customer!


For general information, customers over that past 20 years report they experience least "nuisance" effects taking the vitamin C and lysine 20 minutes prior to meals.

Before answering, do you have any evidence that the way you are taking the therapy is wrong, that it has not worked properly?

Many years ago, we too followed the guidance of John Ely, MD, who theorized that glucose can interfere with the uptake of vitamin C by cells. I had spoken many times with Dr. Ely about his glucose-ascorbate antagonism (GAA) theory. He told me that while Pauling recommended keeping total sucrose intake levels lower than was common in the USA, Pauling apparently did not fully subscribe to Dr. Ely's theory.

I will say that if blood sugar is very high, out of control, there may be something to this idea.

The universe recently brought new information to my attention last year by way of Anthony William, the Medical Medium. Key information is that before ANY nutrient can be absorbed by the body - glucose must be present (and by implication, insulin must be present.) If you have Amazon kindle, you can get the free preview of his first book THE MEDICAL MEDIUM... Granted, it sounds made up, but I offered anyone in our company who found a single provable error in the material a reward of $1000. There is a lot of new, unknown material, but no errors in the first 4 books that can be proven, written by a person who never went to college!

My own view has changed on sugar. Sucrose - table sugar, which is a 50/50 combination of glucose and fructose, and it should be avoided, because of the fructose. One can purchase glucose (as dextrose) from Now Foods, and I now take my own Cardio-C with glucose.

And if this is all true, then perhaps the reason such high doses of vitamin C are necessary to be effective, is because these large doses of ascorbate are needed by themselves to induce the pancreas to emit insulin, especially in the absence of glucose. The corollary is that when you take vitamin C with fruits and juice, perhaps much less vitamin C is required? I've been testing this by taking about half of the vitamin C I have historically taken - with glucose. If there is any evidence this isn't working, I will go back to the "old way."

I would say that we don't know the answer, but if you believe the Medical Medium, there is probably nothing wrong with taking Cardio-C with carbohydrates.

So why do I "believe" the medical medium?

We (The Vitamin C Foundation) did experiments with glucose meters that have been published showing the ascorbic acid can enter the bloodstream as early as 3 minutes after ingesting 10 grams. As far as I know, this was the first time such a measurement had been done that early, and most of the effect was over in 20-30 minutes, explaining why this has never been seen before. In the first book, William tells us that fructose can be absorbed in 3 minutes, bypassing the intestinal tract!! I almost fell off my chair reading that. Unless he had read my preliminary work, before it was published, I had confirmation that this previously unknown information is true, and must be coming "from somewhere else."

The William information about fat and its effects on the liver, helps explain why all low-fat diets, e.g. Ornish, have such positive results against heart disease. If you look at the ratings by the various magazines, the highest rated anti-CVD diets are low fat, while the Paleo and Keto are way down the list, near the bottom. It turns out that the thing to avoid before taking vitamin C - are fats! They clog the glucose (ascorbate) receptors on cell membranes.

There are more data points that have convinced me that one ignores the material in the Medical Medium series at their own risk. The best way to obtain this material is to read the books.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Sugar or No Sugar w/Pauling Therapy. That is the question...

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:51 am

Owen, I don't have any evidence that the way i've been taking the Cardio C all these years is not working. I have had nuclear stress tests as recently as two years ago that show no changes from previous scans. I have not been feeling myself lately is why I emailed you after coming across Tower Heart formula & reading all of the amazing results. They are the ones who recommended taking their product which is similar to yours except for higher amounts & added supplements without juice or carbs & that glucose blocks vit c.

So I wondered if I was taking the Cardio C the wrong way because I always take mine with 4oz of pom juice and always with a meal twice a day. Now I don't know if I should take my Cardio C with or without food. Tower also said that Pauling protocol will not be effective when someone has medicated stents of which I have two,

I hope that is not true. I just know that the Cardio C says to take with juice or water & before or with a meal. So now I'm not sure which is the best way to take it please advise me with or without food. & if without food how long before or after a meal would be OK. I don't want to get into this thing with mediums because I don't know anything about them. I just know that Pauling was the science expert on this so what did he say about this.

Thanks for all your help.


The information about the problems with "medicated stents" most likely comes from my book. We do have one anecdotal report that very high doses can overcome the pain one person experienced after the implant of a medicated stent. (Plaque grows back in at least 40% of the angioplasties. The somewhat insane medical hope is that by "killing" the tissue, i.e. by putting poisons on the stents, will blunt plaque "regrowth" that results in restenosis/new blockages.) As Dr. Levy explains, Vitamin C is a universal anti-toxin, so it makes sense that higher doses may be able to inactivate the poisons on medicated stents. Just my thoughts.

As far as I remember, Pauling never recommended taking vitamin C away from carbs. He knew that most vitamin C we get from the diet is from carbohydrates. As I explained, his and my friend the late Dr. John Ely, theorized a competition between high levels of glucose and ascorbate entering cells. Pauling was advised, but never adopted this theory, again to my knowledge.

I think we do know that if you take ascorbic acid, a lot (if not all) of the vitamin C can enter the blood stream in minutes 3 to minute 15, which may explain why people have consistently reported taking vitamin C 20 minutes before a meal produces the least "nuisance" effects. There are reason to believe that your Pom juice enhances this rapid utilization effect.


I have not been feeling myself lately is why I emailed you after coming across


Can you be more specific about not feeling yourself. Remind me what dose of vitamin C you are taking? And what medications.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Sugar or No Sugar w/Pauling Therapy. That is the question...

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:58 am

Hi Owen, thanks for your concern in regards to my not felling well. I can't say for sure what it is but I do know that I'm more tired than usual. I do have afib which my doctor said is well controlled without meds.

But mostly I have neck lower & upper back pain from previous injuries & recent surgeries that limit me from walking to get the cardio exercise from walking at a brisk pace for 30 to 45 min that I did before the spinal stenosis surgery I had last year. Because I had to wait four months to have the surgery because of covid, I was walking with a walker & had to sleep in my recliner those four months. After I had physical therapy which helped a little,

I'm still not able to walk because of mid back pain radiating between my shoulders & also across my chest & into my left shoulder this pain has taken me to the emergency room several times because I was worried it might be my heart, they always run the standard tests & tell me it's not my heart.

They tell me I have a lot of arthritis & bone spurs in my spine it does hurt when I walk, moving & standing for more than ten to fifth-teen min, because of being off my feet using a walker for so long my legs are weak, so I'm unable to walk at a brisk pace for 30 to 45 min like I use to before all this so now I can't get the cardio exercise I need.


My doctor said my nuclear scans look the same as previous ones is good, I believe he means no new blockages he said to keep doing what I have been doing. I recently had a echo ultrasound to check my ejection fraction which is now at 48% but was as low as 35% after my heart attack in 2010 it was at 35% for many years but I managed to increase it to 48% in the last few years with some natural supplements. At the same time they did a ultrasound of the arteries in my legs which showed good blood flow. I only take three meds carvedilol 3.125mg 2 a day, & lisinopril 5mg 1 a day, & low dose naltrexone
4.5mg at night for lyme disease. I also take a lot of supplements every day to many to list.

Cardio c as you know I've been taking for many yrs, in the very beginning I did 1 scoop a day but for many years now I take 2 scoops a day but for the past two weeks I upped my dose to 3 times a day without food I can't say I notice any difference with or without food.

I have also taken large doses of sodium ascorbate in powder & lypo c from live on labs to bring my total vitamin c with the cardio c to 8000 to 9000 mg per day. Not sure the sodium in the ascorbate is a problem with blood pressure.
I tried the sodium ascorbate in the powder because it is less expensive to add it to bring my levels up to 8, 9, or 10,000 mg level per day. I don't add it to the cardio c I take it at different times during the day.

Sorry for the long reply. I'm scheduled to have lipped levels done soon I will let you how that goes.
Thanks for all your help.
C


Appreciate the info and my first impression is that you suffer widespread, arthritis-like pain, and that is your major problem. Not the heart per se.

I recently read another set of books by Dr. Jerry Tennant entitled HEALING IS VOLTAGE. It is very hard to nutshell the material, but here goes:

a) we are alive because we have electricity running through us.
b) every cell runs at a healthy voltage, but when the power drops, we experience pain.
c) The body's reaction to pain is to increase the voltage by about double to support healing and new cell production.
d) the main set of "batteries" that power all cells is our muscles (in fact, exercise recharges our muscle batteries, something you apparently cannot do at the moment)
e) Tennant believes that all chronic illness and chronic pain is because our batteries are low, and need to be recharged to support healing.

I strongly suggest reading Tennant. He is brilliant and meticulous in his research. I would start with his first book is HEALING IS VOLTAGE THE HANDBOOK, 3rd Edition

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1453649166?psc=1&pf_rd_p=f432e763-8872-4b0e-8b69-92927cc4af32&pf_rd_r=9EEX6JTCCK8C1F4K5AEX&pd_rd_wg=ZaqdL&pd_rd_i=1453649166&pd_rd_w=9UWn5&pd_rd_r=a25f78ac-e9a5-4e78-a806-da6b9e2ca4f6&ref_=pd_luc_rh_ci_mcx_mr_huc_d_02_02_t_img_lh

Much of his basic advice is to take in "electron donors" and avoid "electron stealers".

For example, vitamin C is a strong electron donor, as are most antioxidants, (and that may be why a close friend takes almost 60 g (60,000 mg) of vitamin C every day to control the pain of his arthritis.)

Tennant's devices (for recharging cells and muscle batteries) are beyond expensive and out of reach of most of us. (I have invested a LOT to test them out.)

His later books describes the history and suppression of "electro medicine" For example, the TENS units which are FDA approved to reduce and eliminate pain. They are too numerous now to know which ones are best. You might do some research, and try a low cost TENS unit to determine whether it can reduce your level of pain. As Tennant explains, it works not necessarily by frequency, but my "providing electrons" that recharge muscle batteries.

As far as arthritis, Tennant mentions Gallium Nitrate, as a potential all purpose antibiotic that won't create anti--biotic resistant strains of pathogen. I bring this up because he references a report where 90 minutes of brushing a horse with a 14% Gallium Nitrate solution - eliminated arthritis pain in that person's hands for over 2 years. David Brownstein, and others, believe that ultimately osteoarthritis is caused by micro organisms (and Browstein writes that he used an IV antibiotic to treat arthritis.) Just this past week, the fellow who takes 60 grams of vitamin C and can barely hold on to things tried the Gallium Nitrate with good results. "Not a cure, but the pain went away."... See: http://galliumnitrate.com/galliumsales2.html

I'm currently testing Tennant's devices, with the idea of first verifying their efficacy, but also of finding other, lower cost electrical devices that can recharge muscle batteries.

These are two Tennant overview videos... Who he is and what he does.



youtube direct link
https://youtu.be/yGeNdm2pe-0

youtube direct link
https://youtu.be/3UDigqcoEh8
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Sugar or No Sugar w/Pauling Therapy. That is the question...

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:49 am

Owen,
I believe I read about the healing voltage years ago I will look into it.

Specifically, using voltage to reduce pain, i.e., pain according to Tennant is the body's request for "more voltage".

Also I'm interested in upping my vit-c dosage I don't know about 60,000 mg but I would like to try 10,000 to 15,000mg a day & start with that. I'm trying to keep costs down as I'm retired & on a fixed income & already spend a lot each month.


Adding additional vitamin C - to bowel tolerance makes a great deal of sense.

We market non-Chinese vitamin C, but there are excellent Chinese suppliers, that used to be, perhaps, 1/7th the cost at wholesale. If the late Falconi's Wholeale Nutrition is still in business, they obtain their C from an ISO Chinese supplier. The only concern with other vitamin C is the idea that some cheaper C is about half D-ascorbate (where L-ascorbate is the real vitamin C).


I know that sodium ascorbate which I've used is inexpensive & 1/4 tsp, has 1,100 mg but also has 120mg of sodium I'm not sure how that would effect my blood pressure, I have used this in the past to bring my levels above the cardio c at two scoops a day to about 8,000mg a day. Could you give me some advice on this to keep my coat down


The main difference, we think, is that ascorbic acid is almost immediately assimilated into the blood stream through the stomach lining. Most of our experience, and Pauling's recommendations, are taking ascorbic acid. Sodium ascorbate seems to be more like a timed released, entering the intestines, with the amount entering the blood stream slower, and over time. I think using some sodium ascorbate would be fine, but if you can, I'd focus on ascorbic acid, say 20 minutes prior to meals. (Note: Due to the pH, IV/C should be sodium ascorbate.)

The supernatural Medium books recommended Ester-C, which is a form of Calcium Ascorbate. We pooh poohed it over the years, but after reading this, we relooked and tested. The results were amazing, and although somewhat more expensive, we discovered that about 1/4 of Ester-C was the equivalent to ordinary vitamin C, in terms of bowel tolerance to infection. It seems miraculous (and we even tried to relabel it, but could never get the company intereted.)


I'm able to keep my levels of cardio-c at two containers a month I have been doing three scoops a day for about 1 1/2 weeks but I may run low before
my next shipment.


My guess, given your good report on the heart, (unless you know your Lp(a) is elevated, which I would question given your years on the Pauling therapy) is that the amount of lysine you are getting with one or two jars is adequate. In other words, the extra can be just vitamin C, or even liposomal vitamin C. Note: Lp(a) is usually calculated (not measured) and surprisingly, I learned reading Tennant - LDL cholesterol is calculated too!

I also want to look into the gallium nitrate.

I also met with a lipped doctor yesterday that my cardiologist sent me to get my levels checked he wants me to think about a procedure he does in the office they take blood out of one arm run it through a machine to remove the Lpa, from the arteries & put the clean blood back in the other arm because my last Lpa test in 2018 was at 125mg/L


If you got the units correct, and it was measured, then your Lp(a) is fine! Pauling said that less then 20 mg/dl is good. I believe 125 mg/L (divided by 10) is 12.5 mg/dl.. So that "L" versus "dl" is very important! And quite deceptive.



he claims it lowers Lpa by 80% & I would have to do this procedure every two weeks for four hours for the rest of my life. I believe they call it Apheresis I looked at him like he was joking. I asked if he ever heard of Pauling & his theory he claims he heard of him but there is no proof to back up his claim & that if it worked why is my Lpa so high I just knew he was not interested he said this procedure was the only proven way to lower Lpa. This what we are up against. I appreciate all your help.


Rather than fight with him, maybe you can obtain a measured Lp(a) test to put your mind at rest... We used to have Atherotech - but I believe they are out of business. Might check LEF.org's blood tests.. These days Lp(a) is usually measured as nmol/L - a measure of particles rather the mass - which normal is around 95, if memory serves. So if those are the units, your Lp(a) is somewhat elevated, but not worthy of a life time procedure!

I guess the "good news" is that a lipid specialist realizes that Lp(a) is the real issue :-) Apparently because they found a way to make a lifetime of money from lowering it...
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Re: Sugar or No Sugar w/Pauling Therapy. That is the question...

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:48 am

I believe that the Lp(a) was probably 125mg/dl & not 125mg/l, I'm not sure because he just read it off the computer

but I was told by my cardiologist back in the 90s Dr. Steven Sinatra that he was concerned that my Lp(a) was over a hundred. Oh how I wish he was still in practice, he was a great guy.

I'm do to get my labs done again so I will let you know.

As for the vitamin C I thought the calcium in the Ester-C was a problem I don't take any calcium supplements because I thought the lead to the calcium in the arteries I just rely on diet for that.

I thought to much ascorbic acid was hard on the stomach I'm not sure please let me know.

About the healing voltage I remember doing some research about the Scenar device cumming out of Russia I'm not re if I spelled it right but I believe you know what I'm talking about.

I did some looking into Essential Oils & healing frequency also.
Thanks for all your help.
Charles


I loved Dr. Sinatra's books. (Sinatra is how I learned of the large WHO study showing vitamin E deficiency is a greater predictor of hart attack than either high blood pressure or elevated cholesterol.)

RE: Lp(a) Since he read it to you, my bet is that the units were the new nmol/L measurement - where below 95 is considered Normal.  I can access my labs online.  Can you do that?

Re: Calcium. We thought so too.   Turns out that most fruits contain vitamin C as a form of calcium ascorbate, which is highly absorbable.   The problem with Calcium,, that Dr. Levy warned about, are the high amounts (over 1 gram) that are recommended and that are a problem. High amounts should be avoided and should be balanced with magnesium.

Some arcane knowledge that I was reminded about comes from Keith Brewers paper "The High pH Therapy of Cancer". Brewer found that cancer cells block calcium from entering, which keeps oxygen levels low  ([/i]apparently calcium is either attached to oxygen or allows oxygen inside the cells), and the calcium levels inside cancer cells is  about 1/1000 the level of calcium as normal cells. (Where as glucose levels are about 16 times as much in cancer as normal cells.)


So the small amount of calcium is ester-C should not be a problem, and does seem miraculous to me.


Some people have problems with large amounts of ascorbic acid, however, I'd take as much as I could tolerate before switching to sodium ascorbate or another form.  Or start with Ester-C.

I do recognize that Russian device from Tennant's book, and if you find a source, please let me know.

We are experimenting, and Tennant does recommend the oils (on the basis that every organ has its own optimal healing frequency - which the oils help with) but I haven't yet experimented with them.

The big question is whether you have any root canals, mercury fillings, or pulled teeth?  Like Dr. Levy, dental toxicity is cited as the major problem, because circuits travel through all teeth, and infections always drain that circuit.

Finally, get some sunlight! I just read about "cholesterol sulfate," which like Vitamin D is produced by sunlight on the skin. The article Tennant cites proffers the idea that atherosclerosis is at least, in part, a cholesterol sulfate deficiency.  Strong reason to try and get 20 minutes of sunlight, between 10 a.m and 2 p.m.  I wear a hat, protect my face, but according to Tennant sunlight is also a way to gain electrons
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Sugar or No Sugar w/Pauling Therapy. That is the question...

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:26 am

c

Aug 26, 2021, 1:58 PM (20 hours ago)

to me
RITM SCENAR PRO SCENAR-1-NT-02.3 full english version Free shipping by express mail. Warranty 1 year: buy on Kalinka-Store - 96
https://www.kalinka-store.com/ritm-scenar-pro-scenar-1-nt-023-english-screen

Hi Owen, here is a link to the Russian device hope this helps.

Re: The vitamin E you mention are you referring to Tocopherols, or Tocotrienols, the reason I ask is that I read Dr. Barry Tans book on Tocotrienols, are better than the Tocopherols, & how they can lower Cholesterol & help to remove Plaque from the Arteries & also lower Inflammation so I have switched to the Tocotrienols it also
helps to lower non alcoholic fatty liver disease. Also I read an article that Dr. Passwater had with Dr. Tan about this.

Let me know what you think.

Thank you for the link.

I wouldn't give up one for the other! Why not cover all bases and take both?

We have had "discussions" about the two vitamin Es, and I have not been enamoured by the Tocotrienols, and I certainly would NOT give up on the basic Tocopherols - especially the mixed tocopherols, like what is in the product Unique-E from A. C. Grace. Unique-E with alpha, gamma, delta and other variants. Note that Unique-E tocopherols are the form that reverses bad EKG (e.g. heart damage) in six months, at least when combined with high dose vitamin C.

There is bad science re: the supposed danger of tocopherols, (probably to help medicine counter that WHO study Sinatra cited) I started to dig into Tocotrienols, and didn't really find enough there to make me want to switch.

As far as that Vitamin E research, no doubt it was tocopherols, and probably just one (not mixed, maybe even the synthetic) , as there were something like 16000 people analysed. And Sinatra wrote the book 15-20 years ago.

By the way, the Unique-E dosage that reverses bad EKGS is 2000 iu daily (5 400 IU pills)
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year


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