I get flatulent gas on the required high doses

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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I get flatulent gas on the required high doses

Post by ofonorow » Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:03 pm

Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: I get flatulent gas on the required high doses

Post by ofonorow » Sat Feb 17, 2024 10:44 am

Your book "Practicing Medicine Without a License" was an absolute eye opener. Very well written and quite informative on the cause of Atherosclerosis. I referred your book to two friends. It is very sad that the medical establishment is more motivated by profit than actually helping their patients with natural products other than pharmaceuticals, stents, surgery etc.


The medical profession is generally an unwitting tool of Big Pharma. I think most doctors want to help their patients and see them get better, believe that what they do is based on science, and find an answer as simple as vitamin C too hard to believe.

You might remember the story of the Look-ahead-pharmacist who gave lectures on drugs in the pipeline to cardiologists. He played to packed houses, but after finding our web pages during his research, he dopped what he was planning to lecture on, and gave a group of Cardiologists a lecture on Pauling's Unified Theory.

After the lecture, these cardiologists stood up as one - angry. Not at Mr. Gelber, but at the Medical Journals for not informing them!

When I respected advanced pharmacist brings the information, it was suddenly believable. .



I have been a vegetarian for many years. To my dismay and shock I learned that my Calcium arterial scan read a high 2200 despite having no outward symptoms of any disease at the age of 78.


The first thing that runs through my is mind, what medications are you taking?

There are hundreds of medications that block that action of vitamin K leading to a build-up of calcium on the outside of the arterial wall. I don't believe a vegetarian could have calcium build-ups unless they are taking medications. Can you prove me wrong?

Vitamin C and Lysine by themselves seem to have little immediate affect on calcium scores, although Dr. Sydney Bush did report reversals long-term, in a year or so. Vitamin K is the key to controlling these high calcium scores, visit the following link which contains that story explaining why we now recommend Vitamin K along with Pauling's basic recommendation. (LEF.ORG's Super-K has kept my wife and my calcium scores at zero. I pill daily)


viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11891


That was 3 years ago. For 22 months thereafter, I was convinced that the Ornish/Esselstyn therapy of living foods and low oil and fat was the way to go to lower my calcification....only to be shocked and disappointed when my score rose to 2400. For 8 months thereafter I did the Dr. Gary Mezo therapy called Nanobac. Yes, the therapy worked but not to my expectations. The calcium score only went down 2% ....at least it didn't go up! I am now doing Plaquex and Cavadex IV therapies. The Cavadex uses beta cyclodextrin to remove calcification. But neither of these 2 protocols get to the source of the problem which seems to be a genetic disposition for high lipoprotein (a) aggravated by other factors like homocysteine, c-reactive protein, low levels of D3 and K2, oxidized cholesterol etc etc. In fact the genetic company, 23 & Me, just hooked up with a Pharmaceutical firm for research on LP (a). Owen, they should have called you up for an easy solution using the Linus Pauling research.


Keep on a high vitamin C, lysine protocol and include at least one Super-K vitamin K pill daily, and I predict a much lower calcium score within a year, perhaps even zero.

Let us know.



I spoke yesterday to Sally of Tower Labs. Her suggestion was to use 1 scoop of the Heart Tech during the morning, 1 scoops of Heart Tech later in the day, and two of the Ascorsine at night as it could be the Creatine that is accentuating the flatulence problem in the Ascornine. Also, it was agreed taking the product after after having food.

I am a little versed in the work of the cardiologist Dr. Roberts in Ohio. In some of his old papers he mentioned Heart Tech for vitamin C and for those who have a toleration problem to take a buffered Vitamin C complexed with GMS-Ribose. I confirmed with his office that this was American Nutraceuticals Vitality C. I have been led to believe that a buffered solution may not be as effective as ascorbic acid as proclaimed by Dr. Linus Pauling.

Thank you for your suggestions. I will check out Cardio C and I like your idea of sipping the product throughout the day and taking less.

Best, M


I had not considered that creatine might be the culprit, since most people have difficulty with vitamin C. Sally's protocol should let you know whether it was the creatine or not.

Now we have learned quite a bit since we wrote the book, thanks to a fine gentlemen, Anthony William, who claims that an otherworldly source provides him with health information. True or false, I have not been able to find serious flaws or contradictions in his now 8 major books.

These books were written, we are told, to help us understand and combat viruses that cause chronic disease in millions (and if you believe the source, all pathogenic viruses, that had been benign, have been altered (and are now created) in clandestine labs since the early 1900s, including the cold and flu.)

The second main message is the importance of glucose, Glucose powers the body, including the heart muscle, is vital to both the brain and liver, so much so that these organs store it so that we may survive during periods of shortage, and is required for healing, etc.

Refined table sugar is only half glucose, and creates the bad image. Fruits, on the other hand, have the perfect combinations of sugars (esp. glucose) attached to many nutrients and phytochemicals, and happen to be the best cancer fighting foods on the planet, but I digress.

And they say there is an absolute requirement to minimize fat in the diet. As a vegetarian, you most likely fit well into this scenario.

The Medical Medium makes the claim that all nutrients require glucose before they can be absorbed into cells, and this is because insulin is key. So rather than fear that glucose competes with vitamin C, apparently vitamin C and other nutrients can "attach" to glucose, and are drawn into cells. The other half of the equation is that fat clogs the glucose receptors on cells for some period, blocking glucose (and vitamin C) uptake. So a firm rule should be to keep fat intake low, and/or take your supplements, especially vitamin C before eating any fats.

I speculate that the reason such high doses of oral vitamin C are required is because they initiate an insulin response, like glucose does. In theory, this would mean that less vitamin C might be necessary for the same positive effects when taken with glucose. In your case, say taking your vitamin C with a healthy fruit smoothie, you might not require nearly the dosages we generally recommend, which may help reduce the flatulence issue.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: I get flatulent gas on the required high doses

Post by Martin » Sat Feb 17, 2024 10:12 pm

Owen: Thank you for bringing up this topic and your response to my question. I am happy and privileged to join this fine group. First....I don't take medications...no statins, no stents, no heart interventions... None, zip,...Period! except for the Covid vaccine and if I on occasion I need dental work. For 22 months I took Jarrow's Formula MK-7 vitamin K. Around 7 pills a day or 630 mgs...a high dose of Menaquinone. Still my calcium score went from 2200 to 2400. I am 81 years old. In those 22 months my diet was approx 75% raw vegetables...lots of assorted greens, many sprouts from Hippocrates Health Institute in West Palm Beach not far from my home in Boca Raton, Fl. The balance was grains such as beans and rice, cereals etc. Also an assortment of nutraceuticals like Endothelial Defense, Vitamin D, Endocalyx Pro, (for the endothelial glycolyx) Cruciferous Vegetables, CoQ 10, tocotrienols, magnesium, Methyl CPG for homocysteine etc etc...all the good stuff EXCEPT vitamin C and of course no lysine and no niacin. No cooked fats and oil as per the Ornish/Esselstyn regimen and limited nut consumption.. No junk food! Even with a high calcium score, I do not see a cardiologist, have good energy, active athletically, NO symptoms like high blood pressure and angina. I studied biochemistry and Nutrition at the U. of Bridgeport with my wife who has an MS degree and who practiced for awhile as a certified nutritionist. The fact remains that Lp (a) levels according to Dr. Roberts, of the Heart Fixer website, and one whom I consider a foremost knowledgable cardiologist who practices integrative nutrition....In his words: "Lp(a) levels are under hereditary control; If your level is high, that is because your ancestors needed more to get them through the Ice Age. The higher your level, the greater is your risk." The average American value is 14 Mg: 13 in healthy individuals and 19 in coronary patients. A level above 30 doubles your risk. Lp(a) has 10 times the plaque producing potential of LDL." ....page 18 of 39 in his discussion of Vitamin C. and the role of LP(a) in vascular disease. My last level was 28. https://www.heartfixer.com/MedicalTopics/VitaminC.htm

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Re: I get flatulent gas on the required high doses

Post by Martin » Sat Feb 17, 2024 10:22 pm

Try this address to access the Heartfixer website: https://www.heartfixer.com/MedicalTopic ... in%20C.htm

Note: To your credit Owen, Dr. Roberts agrees mostly with what you wrote in your excellent book "Practicing Medicine Without a License, and undoubtedly much of his research comes from the work of Dr. Linus Pauling and others. But Dr. Roberts has the benefit of working in hand with hundreds if not thousands of patients with the most severe cases of heart disease,,,, using both pharmaceuticals when necessary and of course nutrition.

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Re: I get flatulent gas on the required high doses

Post by Martin » Sun Feb 18, 2024 9:44 am

>>> Vitamin C and Lysine by themselves seem to have little immediate affect on calcium scores,<<<

Owen: Would not lowering your LP(a) score also lower your calcium score within a shorter period of time than 1 year? Lipoprotein (a) scores have been shown to change within 3 months after taking Vitamin C, lysine megadoses. Also, what is your take on buffered Vitamin C compared to ascorbic acid??? Of course we know the latter works as it follows Dr. Paulings recommendation but if one can avoid the digestive upset, isn't buffered somewhat better. According to the American Nutraceutical company, it's Vitality C brand with GMS-Ribose and sodium, is more readily absorbed.

On another note which I thought would be of interest are the therapies Plaquex and Cavadex. As a new member of this board, please excuse the fact that I have not been familiar with all the discussion. But given that vitamin C for atherosclerosis is the main consideration, I thought mentioning 2 other protocols would be of interest.

20-30 sessions of Plaquex IV should lower your calcium score by at least 20-30% after a few months. The active ingredient is Polyenylphosphatidylcholine. I am now on this therapy aside from Cavadex and Vitamin C. Plaquex has been utilized in Europe for many years and practitioners in the U.S. can be found. Go to the Plaquex website and buy the book below. It is believed that PC (for short) passes the brain barrier and may also help with Dementia.

https://biorica.biz/en/books/333-plaquex.html

Cavadex is relatively new. Dr. Roberts has shown that it lowers plaque in the carotid arteries. Go to his website for his discussion on it. The active ingredient beta cyclodextrin has been tested in lab tests and in mice models for over 30 years but not given to humans intrathecally it affects hearing. But taking it via IV or through a suppository, it works to lift plaque from arteries. . It is not a drug. According to the Cavadex website: "It is a ring-shaped FDA approved starch that absorbs cholesterol from artery walls. Unlike drugs, Cavadex is not broken down and absorbed by the body. Cavadex circulates around the vascular system collecting cholesterol and leaves the body intact via urine. Cavadex has no side effects because it is not metabolized by the body. Cyclodextrins have been used safely in medicine for over 30 years"... for drug transport and it is also found in many foods. Nieman-Pick disease is an illness where children cannot metabolize cholesterol properly. By the time they reach teen years many die young from a build up of cholesterol in their brains. A company called Cyclo Therapeutics in Gainesville, has FDA fast track approval for the use of Cyclo Dextrin in the treatment of this disease. Undoubtedly, the company is also working for its use to remove placque for those suffering from Atherosclerosis. Disclaimer: Best to do one's own research on Plaquex and Cavadex for their viability in treating Atherosclerosis.

Of course, I see the problem with both Plaquex and Cavadex as not getting to the source of the problem....the Vitamin C connection and the build up of collagen and elastin to provide the matrix for our arteries.

Of note: I was under the impression in my 22 months of following Ornish/Esselstyn program that I was getting enough Vitamin C with the fruits and vegetarian diet I was taking. Apparently not so, as my Coronary arterial calcium score continued to climb. I have learned through Dr. Robbins, Owen's book and Dr. Rath etc that it is the LP (a)...a genetic component that is the major source of the problem and that other extenuating circumstances like crp levels, homocysteine, stress, cortisol etc etc play a part. I had considered taking niacin but did not like the flushing effect until I learned of extended release brands. Too much niacin can effect your liver enzymes and increase homocysteine levels.

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Vitamin C Therapy and Lipoprotein A discussion

Post by Martin » Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:43 pm

Prepare yourselves for an excellent discussion on Vitamin C and Lipoprotein A....1.5 hour video with Dr. Robbins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3C9bdDCRiU

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Re: I get flatulent gas on the required high doses

Post by Martin » Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:31 am

How to check your Genetic Data for Lipoprotein (a)...possibly the biggest risk for heart disease

Subscribe first to 23 and me....around $80

https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/lipopr ... t-disease/

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Genetic Testing for Lipoprotein (a)

Post by Martin » Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:38 am

How to check your Genetic Data for Lipoprotein (a)...possibly the biggest risk for heart disease

Subscribe first to 23 and me....around $80

https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/lipopr ... t-disease/

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Re: I get flatulent gas on the required high doses

Post by ofonorow » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:37 am

Dr. Roberts, at least when i was more connected with Tower, has been a main customer of Tower Laboratories. People are understandably comforted when under the care of a cardiologist, however, in my view, they have a lot to "unlearn" and we (me) haven't seen a single case in all these years that requires any pharmaceutical medication :D

Martin wrote:>>> Vitamin C and Lysine by themselves seem to have little immediate affect on calcium scores,<<<

Owen: Would not lowering your LP(a) score also lower your calcium score within a shorter period of time than 1 year? Lipoprotein(a) scores have been shown to change within 3 months after taking Vitamin C, lysine megadoses.



There is little connection, as far as our experience tells us, between Lp(a) and calcium build-ups. Calcium is related to vitamin K-blocking drugs, and the calcium generally forms on the "outside" of the artery. Sydney Bush noticed that calcification's would resolve in a year (where the normal white atheromas in the retinal arteries) would start dissolving in days.


Also, what is your take on buffered Vitamin C compared to ascorbic acid??? Of course we know the latter works as it follows Dr. Pauling's recommendation but if one can avoid the digestive upset, isn't buffered somewhat better. According to the American Nutraceutical company, it's Vitality C brand with GMS-Ribose and sodium, is more readily absorbed.


Not a simple answer. We have a great deal of experience with ascorbic acid, but Pauling himself added bicarb (sodium bicarbonate) to his 9000 mg ascorbic acid drinks.

Our experience shows that on an empty stomach, ascorbic acid powder can enter the blood stream in about 3 minutes, apparently permeating the stomach wall. This is especially relevant when fighting a cold because blood levels rise higher than can be achieved intravenously. The effect disappears in about 20 minutes.

Sodium ascorbate travels the expected path, through the gut, and since vitamin C quickly breaks down, there is more chance of loss during sodium ascorbate's passage through the gut.

My intuition tells me that there probably isn't a big difference, unless the rapid rise in vitamin C from acorbic acid is the trigger that causes the pancreas to release insulin (that we now know is required for the body to absorb nutrients.) Take your vitamin C with glucose (e.g. Fruits) and this theoretical issue goes away.


On another note which I thought would be of interest are the therapies Plaquex and Cavadex. As a new member of this board, please excuse the fact that I have not been familiar with all the discussion. But given that vitamin C for atherosclerosis is the main consideration, I thought mentioning 2 other protocols would be of interest.

20-30 sessions of Plaquex IV should lower your calcium score by at least 20-30% after a few months. The active ingredient is Polyenylphosphatidylcholine. I am now on this therapy aside from Cavadex and Vitamin C. Plaquex has been utilized in Europe for many years and practitioners in the U.S. can be found. Go to the Plaquex website and buy the book below. It is believed that PC (for short) passes the brain barrier and may also help with Dementia.

https://biorica.biz/en/books/333-plaquex.htm


I personally believe that there is much benefit from a Polyenylphosphatidylcholine therapy based on anecdotal reports.

Cavadex is relatively new. Dr. Roberts has shown that it lowers plaque in the carotid arteries. Go to his website for his discussion on it. The active ingredient beta cyclodextrin has been tested in lab tests and in mice models for over 30 years but not given to humans intrathecally it affects hearing. But taking it via IV or through a suppository, it works to lift plaque from arteries. . It is not a drug. According to the Cavadex website: "It is a ring-shaped FDA approved starch that absorbs cholesterol from artery walls. Unlike drugs, Cavadex is not broken down and absorbed by the body. Cavadex circulates around the vascular system collecting cholesterol and leaves the body intact via urine. Cavadex has no side effects because it is not metabolized by the body. Cyclodextrins have been used safely in medicine for over 30 years"... for drug transport and it is also found in many foods. Nieman-Pick disease is an illness where children cannot metabolize cholesterol properly. By the time they reach teen years many die young from a build up of cholesterol in their brains. A company called Cyclo Therapeutics in Gainesville, has FDA fast track approval for the use of Cyclo Dextrin in the treatment of this disease. Undoubtedly, the company is also working for its use to remove placque for those suffering from Atherosclerosis. Disclaimer: Best to do one's own research on Plaquex and Cavadex for their viability in treating Atherosclerosis.

Of course, I see the problem with both Plaquex and Cavadex as not getting to the source of the problem....the Vitamin C connection and the build up of collagen and elastin to provide the matrix for our arteries.


It is natural for a medical doctor to graviate toward therapies that keep him/her in the picture. If you remember from my book, I really started believing Pauling was on the right track after an uncle was diagnosed with a 90% and 50% blockages in the carotids. They scraped the 90% and showed my aunt and uncle the white plaque that was removed via surgery.

My aunt put my uncle on 5 pills daily, (instead of 5 grams) so 2500 vitamin C and 2500 lysine, and 30 days later, the doctor called after the second surgery embarrassed. They had not found ANY plaque on the other side.


Of note: I was under the impression in my 22 months of following Ornish/Esselstyn program that I was getting enough Vitamin C with the fruits and vegetarian diet I was taking. Apparently not so, as my Coronary arterial calcium score continued to climb. I have learned through Dr. Robbins, Owen's book and Dr. Rath etc that it is the LP (a)...a genetic component that is the major source of the problem and that other extenuating circumstances like crp levels, homocysteine, stress, cortisol etc etc play a part. I had considered taking niacin but did not like the flushing effect until I learned of extended release brands. Too much niacin can effect your liver enzymes and increase homocysteine levels.


An typical animal of your body weight makes 9g (9000 mg) of ascorbate (vitamin C) daily in the liver. It would be hard to replace this amount from food! (It is estimated that to get what Pauling ingested daily would require over 200 oranges per day.) The vitamin C problem is a problem caused by a genetic defect. Vitamin C may have some vitamin-like properties, but it really not a vitamin in the current way we think of vitamins.

And vitamin C has little relation to calcium. The key vitamin lacking that causes calcium build-up is vitamin K; the problem is caused by vitamin K blocking drugs (e.g. warafin - rat poison).

Under the Unified Theory, Lp(a) has increased to become a surrogate for missing vitamin C. Lp(a) creates plaster-like casts over weakness in arteries, that would otherwise not exist if vitamin C and the collagen it promotes were present).

In other words, Lp(a) has saved people who would have otherwise died from the low vitamin C intake.

Niacin has some remarkable properties, as do most vitamins when you did deep enough, not the least of which is helping the body kill MRSA/Superbugs. Just posted an article in the general discussion on Niacin https://vitamincfoundation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15973.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year


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