How high should I go to achieve bowel tolerance?

This forum will focus on the interesting topic of titrating oral vitamin C intake to so-called bowel tolerance, the point just prior to the onset of diarrhea

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quickstep
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How high should I go to achieve bowel tolerance?

Post Number:#1  Post by quickstep » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:25 pm

Looking at the chart for "bowel tolerance" http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm, I have yet to achieve it after consuming 140 grams. I've tried to deduce why I'm not achieving bowel tolerance yet, does anyone have a recommendation on how to best approach this?

First, I have been consuming 20g of ascorbic acid for 1 month and decided to try achieving "bowel tolerance"

I increased my dosage to 100g in one day without luck, so over the next 6 days I increased to 125g. I dropped the dose to 20g daily again, waited a week and jumped up to about 140g in one day. No results.

I've tried two different brands (twin labs & NOW) of pure ascorbic acid. I eat very healthy, exercising daily, I'm in my upper 20's. Although, I do have environmental (dust, pollen) and food allergies (wheat - gluten, yeast), but could this cause a tolerance so high?

Consuming over 100g daily seems inconvenient and causes some excessive gas at times.

Thanks for the feedback.

davids

Re: How high should I go to achieve bowel tolerance?

Post Number:#2  Post by davids » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:19 pm

Hi Quickstep,

As "grist for your mill," it has been speculated that you need to consume 3 to 5 times the amount of ascorbic acid orally as you would get via the IV route (or naturally, i.e. via the liver, as the animals get it). Therefore, even if you are consuming 250 grams a day, you may only be "getting" 50 grams into your bloodstream and tissues. IF I were you, I would not question what your body is "telling" you, i.e. that it can use the ascorbate, and in fact, seems to need even more. Remember, one animal (standardized to 154 pounds/70 kilos) under stress, was recorded to have produce 100 grams of ascorbic acid for itself in a 24 hour period, and we humans would probably have to ingest 300 to 500 grams of ascorbic acid orally to achieve the same [ascorbate] effect(s).

Just my view,

David

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Keep on truckin'

Post Number:#3  Post by Ralph Lotz » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:16 pm

David is 100% correct. Don't quit now.
If you are getting gas, you ought to be getting close.
Where there is smoke, there is fire.

According to Dr. Hickey, it is a good idea to take the ascorbate every 2-4 hours to establish a constant blood level.
At one point, my daughter had to take over 35 grams per dose to hit bowel tolerance.
"Unless we put medical freedom into the constitution...medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship..force people who wish doctors and treatment of their own choice to submit to only what..dictating outfit offers." Dr. Benjamin Rush

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Post Number:#4  Post by Bobber » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:01 pm

Good advice. Everyone is different and will require different amounts according to the environment you are in. I get the runs within an hour or two if I take 5 grams under normal conditions. I also notice a slight difference if I am using time release (can tolerate more).
Bobber

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Very High Tolerance

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:23 pm

Have you achieved Bowel Tolerance yet?

The highest level we have ever heard of in a "well" person is around 30,000 mg daily.

You mentioned trust worthy sources of vitamin C as ascorbic acid, so I don't think there is an issue that you are not really taking vitamin C, but something strange is going on.

Lets examine Cathcart's Bowel Tolerance chart. I'll only list those conditions that might create a tolerance above 120 g daily.

Cathcart wrote:
GRAMS ASCORBIC ACID
CONDITION PER 24 HOURS
severe cold 60 - 100+
influenza 100 - 150
ECHO, coxsackievirus 100 - 150
mononucleosis 150 - 200+
viral pneumonia 100 - 200+
burn, injury, surgery 25 - 150+
bacterial infections 30 - 200+
infectious hepatitis 30 - 100
candidiasis 15 - 200+


The allergies do not reach this level. Only infections.

A very interesting case.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

quickstep
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Update

Post Number:#6  Post by quickstep » Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:27 pm

I still have yet to achieve bowel tolerance, I'll have to set a non-workday aside to see how high I need to go. Are there any Doc's in Seattle who could give me injections? Besides the allergies, I'm relatively healthy, I don't think a non-healthy person could run their first marathon in 2:36 only training 50 miles per week.

I do notice that my eye lids and nose are always swollen in the morning, despite keeping a strict diet and clean environment (hepa filter, vacuum, clean sheets, no fabric softners, avoid allergy foods, etc)

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Re: Update

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:29 am

quickstep wrote:I still have yet to achieve bowel tolerance, I'll have to set a non-workday aside to see how high I need to go. Are there any Doc's in Seattle who could give me injections? Besides the allergies, I'm relatively healthy, I don't think a non-healthy person could run their first marathon in 2:36 only training 50 miles per week.

I do notice that my eye lids and nose are always swollen in the morning, despite keeping a strict diet and clean environment (hepa filter, vacuum, clean sheets, no fabric softners, avoid allergy foods, etc)


Are you telling us that you are taking 140 g (140,000 mg) or more of a reputable vitamin C daily without experiencing diarrhea? Other than the swelling, how do you feel taking that much vitamin C? Where did you get the vitamin?
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

J.Lilinoe

Post Number:#8  Post by J.Lilinoe » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:21 am

On the topic of bowel tolerance, I think I almost achieved it on 20 grams but it looks like I have to go higher.
I am currently taking the NOW brand of 1000 mgs Vit C capsules. ITs not pure ascorbic acid but rather has some bioflavinoids in it. So, I am wondering if the bioflavanoids and additives in the Vit C have a lot to do with delaying reaching bowel tolerance?

zucic

Re: Update

Post Number:#9  Post by zucic » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:22 am

quickstep wrote:Besides the allergies, I'm relatively healthy, I don't think a non-healthy person could run their first marathon in 2:36 only training 50 miles per week.

Why you are running that much? Have you tryed to break your training for a week or two and then to find how much ascorbate you can ingest daily?

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Post Number:#10  Post by KENT » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:26 pm

Let me begin by saying that it is an amazing feat to run the marathon in two hours 36 minutes, and I commend you a thousand times for meeting that goal. However, I have met other individuals who were in “excellent shape” but were in shock when they found out that they had a serious hidden illness. Of course, we have all know about Lance Armstrong. I guess I would be cautious to measure my health solely on my marathon results. I would consider other medical test both from traditional and alternative approaches to get a better perspective. A healthy person with a minor allergy taking 140 grams of vitamin c without reaching bowel tolerance maybe a unique personal experience, but it also may indicate a more serious hidden syndrome.

healthy regards
Ken

J.Lilinoe

Post Number:#11  Post by J.Lilinoe » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:03 am

I have to agree with what Kent says. Quickstep needs to get a thorough check up asap. Not reaching BT (bowel tolerance) after taking over 100 grams of Vitamin C and still having allergies would really concern me.

Guest

Post Number:#12  Post by Guest » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:11 am

I'm sorry for butting in , but how do you ingest 100+ grams orally? The powder starts to get really sour after about 5g/glass of juice or water and 100+ pills is awfully hard to swallow.

johnorguest

Bowel tolerance

Post Number:#13  Post by johnorguest » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:52 pm

Quickstep,
I was just curious, how often do you have a bowel movement? Does it seem like you are passing the prior days food during the next day? I'm just wondering whether you can cramp up with a super high dose and restrict passage of fecal matter which in fact may be loose enough but just can't get through. Are you a bit bloated at all? Sorry if that is more than you'd like to share. :)

davids

Post Number:#14  Post by davids » Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:40 pm

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry for butting in , but how do you ingest 100+ grams orally? The powder starts to get really sour after about 5g/glass of juice or water and 100+ pills is awfully hard to swallow.
Hi,

Taking 100+ 1 gram ascorbic acid tablets per day is no trouble at all. I swallow them 6 at a time, and have swallowed 12 at once many times. If this seems difficult at first, a little practice will make it routine. I put the tablets in my mouth, take a drink of water, then tilt my head back, and when the tablets fall to the back of my throat, I then just swallow, i.e. open my epiglotis(?)/esophagus, and the tablets and liquid just seem to fall, or are even sucked, down.

Hope that wasn't more descriptive than you were after.

David
Last edited by davids on Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

quickstep
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update 2

Post Number:#15  Post by quickstep » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:47 pm

Thanks for everyone's comments. I'll try to quickly answer some of the discussion questions. I started taking Ascorbic Acid in January 20grams per day for 2 months (I purchase online from http://www.bulknutrition.com or locally Seattle Super Supplements). After some research - thank goodness for this forum - I concluded I needed to achieve a higher dose to BT.

The strange thing is, as I increased to 100g+ for several days my gas level was about the same as when I was taking 20g. Maybe a little more bloating, but never to BT. I have now tried 5 different brands, all ascorbic acid, 2 powers and 3 pill form. Maybe it is a coincidence that I was just getting sick or my allergies kicking in due to the change in season, or other stresses.

I've been in an unsick mode for a little while now taking 50g per day and I'm considering getting another IgE allergy test, plus a blood test by a local doctor. I'll try to jump up the dose after I know my test results so I have a baseline.

Can the body adapt to high doses of ascorbic so BT is difficult to attain in certain individuals?

I might be a good candidate for lyposheric if I need to take high doses long-term.

Thanks


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