Lypo Spheric Vitamin C Typical Dosage for various scenarios

[phughes]

There is a lot of information on the web about how much oral Vitamin C is needed to control an infection. A perfect example is information by Dr. Cathcart such as http://www.mall-net.com/cathcart/titrate.html . Table I on that previous website is a perfect illustration. From that angle there is very little information about Liposomal formulations of Vitamin C.

Can anyone share their experiences with Lypo Spheric Vitamin C from LivOn Labs as to how many packets were needed to wipe out a cold/viral flu/bacterial infection etc? Please distinguish whether the dosage was used as the start of the infection or if the infection had been there for a few days and whether it was minor cold or a flu. We all know that with oral Vitamin C a lot more is needed after a few days than is needed at the outset.

My only experience to date has been with my daughter who developed cold-like symptoms and 4 packets of Lypo Spheric Vitamin C within about 2-3 hours promptly resolved the infection in its initial stages.

[ofonorow]

My only experience to date has been with my daughter who developed cold-like symptoms and 4 packets of Lypo Spheric Vitamin C within about 2-3 hours promptly resolved the infection in its initial stages.

Wow. That is an important observation. (I don't know if Dr. Levy is keeping track as Dr. Cathcart had done since the 1970s when he began to develop his Bowel Tolerance table, but such tables are generated based on clinical experience.)

Now we know that an adult can accomplish the same thing with 8000 mg every 20 minutes (or 24,000 mg/hr) for 2 to 3 hours, so 48000 to 72000 mg in 3 hours. Lets calculate that based on body weight your daughter would have needed half that dosage, or 24000 to 36,000 mg and we might estimate that Lypo-C was roughly equivalent to 36000/4 or 9000 mg of ordinary vitamin C, which is remarkably close to Dr. Levy's estimate of 1 Lypo = 10 grams regular vitamin C.

[ofonorow]

This from Dr. Levy

The little girl's experience has been exactly what I have already seen repeatedly.

With this clear effect, I suggested a study that could lead to the proverbial Cure for the Common Cold - and FDA approved! We started brainstorming placebos..

However, the lypo GSH could never be a placebo. It accelerates the resolution process for acute infections and intoxications incredibly rapidly. Packet for packet, I have found to lypo GSH to have even more impact than the lypo C. Lecithin would not be a great placebo, either, since it is a very good supplement as well. But the lecithin would be best to represent what the lypo C looked like and tasted like. I will copy Mr. Les Nachman on this response.

The reason for the placebo is because it is difficult to know if someone coming down with an infection - really has it - when it can be eliminated that quickly. One group with the same symptoms is given the placebo. (This thinking illustrates just how hard it really is to create an experiment that "proves" a cure, even for the common cold! Maybe they didn't have it in the first place, although most people know by now when it is starting, the tickle..)

What we really need is a good test, one that supports the individuals subjective feeling, and one that can be applied within the first hour that verifies that someone is indeed infected. If such a test exists, there would technically not be an absolute requirement for a placebo. Does anyone know, or can anyone think of such a 'test"?

Another option is letting the cold get established, which is harder to stop, but then if it can be stopped, it is better proof.

[EvilBaga]

we might estimate that Lypo-C was roughly equivalent to 36000/4 or 9000 mg of ordinary vitamin C, which is remarkably close to Dr. Levy's estimate of 1 Lypo = 10 grams regular vitamin C.

Im a little new to lypo-C. When you estimate 1g Lypo = 10g Vit C, do you mean 10g IV Vit C?

Also, if you take, say, 20g Vit C by mouth, and 10g ends up getting absorbed in the end, is that equivalent to 10g IV Vit C? Or are there some other mediating factors along the way?

[ofonorow]

Im a little new to lypo-C. When you estimate 1g Lypo = 10g Vit C, do you mean 10g IV Vit C?

Also, if you take, say, 20g Vit C by mouth, and 10g ends up getting absorbed in the end, is that equivalent to 10g IV Vit C? Or are there some other mediating factors along the way?

It is complicated. I am going to have to review the Cathcart video where he discusses the power of oral intake versus IV. (vitamincfoundation.org/videos)

Re: question1: "Ordinary vitamin C" - means taking vitamin C orally, as ascorbic acid I suppose. So 1 Lypo may be roughly equivalent to 9 or 10 - 1 gram vitamin C tablets. (We are conservative and assume 1 Lypo = 5 grams of ordinary oral vitamin C).

Regarding question 2, if an IV could be ascorbic acid, then yes, 20 g by mouth would be roughly equivalent to 10 g IV, assuming a 50% loss in the gut. (But if only 1/5 by mouth makes it to the blood, as I remember per Cathcart, then a 10 g IV of AA would equal 50 grams by mouth.)

However, only sodium ascorbate can be used IV, which has 50% of the power of ascorbic acid, according to Cathcart. Again, if memory serves he thinks that only 1/5 of the ascorbic acid taken by mouth makes it to the blood stream.

So AA twice as powerful, but only 1/5 makes it.



IV Sodium Ascorbate - Oral Ascorbic Acid

10 g - 25 g

20 g - 50 g

etc.

[rasarver]

"IV Sodium Ascorbate - Oral Ascorbic Acid

10 g - 25 g

20 g - 50 g"
where the first number is the sodium ascorbate by IV and the second number is the AA (hydrogen ascorbate) taken orally.

Using the conservative estimate that one gram of lypo C is equal to five grams of AA orally, each gram of lypo C taken orally is equivalent to two grams of vitamin C IV.

Using the less conservative estimate that one gram of lypo C is equivalent to 10 grams of oral AA, each gram of lypo C taken orally is equivalent to four grams of vitamin C IV.

Either way lypo C is powerful stuff and it can be made at home (with a relatively modest investment in money, time and raw materials) or purchased ready to use. It's amazing that we have such an effective treatment available is at reasonable cost, without a MD and with essentially no safety or side effects concerns.

[majkinetor]

assuming a 50% loss in the gut.

As far as I know, 10% - 16% of oral C is absorbed only. Thats why 1g of Lipo C is close to 10g of oral C. Since 100% of IV C is absorbed as it is injected directly into the blood, 1g of lipo C is close to 1g of IVC. However, in later case the difference is the pathway of C distribution - lipo C uses more efficent pathway to deliver C to the cell. What happens with IV C once it is in the blood is uncertain - it can enter the cell, it can stay in the plasma and eventually be used up there, or it can be trashed out by the kidnyes.

However, only sodium ascorbate can be used IV, which has 50% of the power of ascorbic acid, according to Cathcart.

This is theoretical and Cathcart might have got this wrong. Until there is more evidence about it, I wouldn't use this in calculation.

[ofonorow]

However, only sodium ascorbate can be used IV, which has 50% of the power of ascorbic acid, according to Cathcart.

This is theoretical and Cathcart might have got this wrong. Until there is more evidence about it, I wouldn't use this in calculation.

I don't think the issue is theory, as it is based on his clinical experience with something like 14,000 patients. In the video, vitamincfoundation.org/videos he discusses what he believes are the comparisons between sodium ascorbate IV and oral ascorbic acid. Rather than trust my memory, it is probably time from me to try and produce a transcript of this part of his lecture. In the meantime, here is a quote from email correspondence directly from Dr. Cathcart:

"...it was not entirely clear that the dramatic effects are always with ascorbic acid orally and sodium ascorbate intravenously. I have not been able to achieve the ascorbate effect with mineral ascorbates orally. Mineral ascorbates are fine forms of vitamin C but when you are really sick, the mitochondria are failing in their refueling of the free radical scavengers with electrons. The ascorbic acid carries 2 extra electrons per molecule where the mineral ascorbates seem to carry only one (plus per molecule the mineral ascorbates are heavier due to the mineral weighing more than the hydrogen the mineral replaces). So the mineral ascorbates are not potent enough to accomplish the ascorbate effect. There may be other reasons that we do not appreciate additionally." Robert Cathcart, III, MD

[ofonorow]

Dr. Cathchart explains whey IV Sodium Ascorbate is 2.5 times as powerful as Ascorbic acid:

Minute 12:26 http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/videos/Cathcart2.wmv

I think that only about 1/5 of the ascorbic acid we take by mouth ever gets into the body, whereas 100% that we give by vein gets in. So therefore, even if the sodium ascorbate is half as strong, that means that perhaps 5 times as much gets into the body, which means the IV is about 2.5 times stronger which is about right; that has been my experience. Intravenous ascorbate is about 2 ½ times more powerful as oral ascorbic acid.

[majkinetor]

Thx for the info. Somebody of the Vitamin C scientist did explain why Cathart might had such experience but I can't find it now.