New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Discussion of the benefits and disadvantages of commercial and homemade (DIY) liposomal vitamin C

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Kina
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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#181  Post by Kina » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:46 am

Another observation I would make - in formula like..
Room Temperature
20 g lecithin - 0.8 g tocopherol - 16 g alcohol (ethanol 94°)
33 ml distilled water



If you add 33ml water to 16g 94% alcohol - isn't that just the same as adding vodka? No need for the water, or 94% OH, just use the equivalent volume of vodka maybe. I used 95% OH.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#182  Post by Kina » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:49 am

If you want to check the pH of a solution I think the cheaper way would be go to the local chemist and buy a pack of Multistix SG10 which contains 100 strips - which include the pH test color coding each pH. They are about $50AUD.

Supposed to be used for urine but would generally work for any solution. i Just used it to test the pH of a weak solution of Ascorbic Acid which came in at least 5 or more acidic.

https://www.healthcare.siemens.com.au/u ... s-benefits

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#183  Post by Kina » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:56 am

With regard to the method of making DHA using zuccini.

The test solution for residual ascorbic acid, in the green smoothie, is 2% iodine solution with corn starch.
Unfortunately I can't get that, best was 5% iodine, but it was mixed with another chemical, and it fails to test sensitively for acid.
I tried using Bi-Carb power with a drop of weak Ascorbic Acid - but is difficult to ascertain, and not sensitive enough.
I wouldn't be able to use the multistix SG10 because of the green food color of the solution.

LATER
I have revisited the Corn Starch Iodine solution method of testing residual Ascorbic Acid in solution - adjusted the ratios to take account of the additional ingredient in my iodine bottle, and now got it to work.

I thus made a small solution of Ascorbic Acid in water.
And progressively tested with the Iodine, diluting the AA each time - to gauge how sensitive the iodine solution was (and tasting the AA solution each time to know how 'strong').

I got to the state of AA dilution where I could barely taste the AA, but it was still registering somewhat in the Iodine test solution.

Need to take care that your drop of AA into the drop of Iodine solution is actually removing color, not just diluting the Iodine color.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#184  Post by Kina » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:07 am

I mentioned before that I had two batches that were acidic - so in the end put them together and heated them to a higher heat - and got on cooling a palatable much less acidic thick solution.

This seems to be a valid process. And I have applied to a batch that was good, but the liposomes started to degrade and solution become more acidic - so reheated quickly to higher temp - possibly 70-80C

Reheating the Lecithin past its transition temperature (and I think we need to go clearly past this temp) will not harm the Ascorbic Acid too much if you do this in less than 15 minutes.

Research of heat on VC - that included a control of an Asocrbic Acid solution - showed at temperatures of 70c 80c and 90c less then 15 minutes of exposure resulted in a small loss. AND i think in a Lecithin solution the loss would be much less, since there would be less oxidation than in pure water.

This study includes a AA in solution control - which shows the result of heat on it.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/aaf2/a ... 2a949f.pdf

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#185  Post by Kina » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:30 pm

I have now tried the method to make DHA dehydroascorbic acid - heres why

https://www.naturalremedies.org/dehydroascorbic-acid/
"Dehydroascorbic acid is absorbed readily into the blood and dispersed throughout the human body, including large deposits into the human brain. This DHA is readily reduced, two hydrogen atoms are added to the compound, and ascorbic acid is formed. The transport of dehydroascorbic acid is much more efficient for the human body than transporting Vitamin C. Vitamin C is not as easily absorbed and requires more energy to mobilize. The body’s obsession with energy efficiency makes the transport of dehydroascorbic acid an acceptable alternative."


I used the method previously described - using zucchini skins which contain the enzyme 'Ascorbic Acid Oxidase' that reacts with ascorbic acid and oxygen to create Dehydroascorbic acid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHKBhz7OCB4

It worked perfectly.
I made around 20 grams DHA. Immediately drank half - there was no Ascorbic Acid taste, and no gut reaction - no gas no diarreah.
I sacrificed 8 zucchinis in the process.

So I would say this is one very effective method to producing a product that can be absorbed by the gut, go into the blood stream, where it is converted into Ascorbic Acid. DHA uses the glucose transport mechanism to get into the system. So don't take sugar at the same time.

So there is IV C - direct into blood stream
Liposomal C - via fat solubility into cells
DHA C - into the system via glucose mechanism.

I imagine all three at the same time would be dynamite against toxins and cancers.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#186  Post by Kina » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:06 am

I knew this wouldn't work, but to prove the point tried it. There seems to be a bit of information missing from the instruction.

Johnwen wrote:OMG !!! Is all I can say from what I’m reading in these posts.
Drinking per se Liposome / V.................
If you have studied lipids you know that the head turn to liquid and the tail stays away from it. So the head is hydrophilic and the tail is hydrophobic.
However it has been found that this also applies to certain solvents also and when this reaction occurs theses lipid’s also cluster together to form a liposome or a sphere of individual lipids. Ethanol is a solvent that this occurs in so it is readily available in most states as pure grain alcohol or 180 proof white lighting. In commercial production various other forms of this product are used but require refined purification methods are needed to remove the byproducts.

In the following I’m going to outline how this process works!
I’m leaving out the details of quantity because there are so many variables that only experimentation of amounts would be a individual preference!

In the first step were going to institute this reaction.
We take a beaker and add the ethanol to it, then take a slightly smaller amount of lipids and blend the two together gently. This forms the liposome’s. Wait at least 10 minutes to allow for this reaction!

DO THIS OUTSIDE ANY STRUCTURE IN OPEN AIR!!
Next is evaporation Ethanol has a flash point of 61.9* F so it don’t take much heat to get it to disappear without damage to the liposome’s. As you can imagine the flash of water is @ 212*F and at that temp. your cooking the liposome’s. I would say that water at 100*F in the tray should give rapid results in evaporation. Once again remember your working with a flammable liquid here and it’s vaporized making it more flammable. Once the ethanol has disappeared and the liposome’s are dry. Remove the beaker and let it cool to ambient temperature.

Now mix your Ascorbic acid and water you want a mix that is just above a paste. So Put you AA in first then add water and stir till it’s a moveable liquid. Keep a little bit of the AA mix here!
Now add this to the Dry Lipo’s. and gently agitate to get it to blend together. Don’t shake or stir just a gentle movement.

Now get out the ultrasound this method depends on the power of your unit! If it’s High power you can keep it in the beaker and zap it in surrounding water.
Low power, pour mix into unit and add the left over AA mix as a rinse for the beaker.
Zap it till mix looks blended if not keep zapping till it looks mixed.


[/quote]

So I had 23gram Alcohol 95% added 20grams Soy Lecithin = Becomes a Plasticine, absorbing the OH it needs, with some free OH outside the plasticine. Drying this creates thick pasticine like substance, much of which will not dissolve by normal means.
NOW if I add a small amount of Ascorbic Acid 5 grams, with sufficient water to make it just a liquid - it will dissolves some, I had to add more water to get about 50% of the 'liposome Plasticine'. The solution remains fairly acidic.
Tossed the result into the garden.

So it doesn't work - some vital part of the instruction missing.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#187  Post by Kina » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:50 am

While I'm thinking of it Dr Mercola Liposomal Vitamin C - is NOT liposomal.
LivOn labs rips it apart.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#188  Post by jara_j » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:46 am

There are alvays doubt about encapsulation of home made LVC. If you make LVC with Ascorbic Acid, you can easy test encapsulation by this method. You only need precision scales, sodium bicarbonate and pH meter (or pH stick).

1. Pour out sample of LVC about 10g, record the exact weight (W1).
2 Add deistilled water about 50g, record exact weight of added water (W2).
3. Gently mix and then let Liposoms go down. Pour out water with dissolved non liposomal AA into another glass. You can easily separate up to 90% of it from liposomes. Record weight of separated solution (W3).
4. Measure pH of separated solution and in small steps add sodium bicarbonate and well mix. Wait until it dissolves. Do until pH goes over 7. Record weight of added sodium bicarbonate (W4).
5. Count amount of non encapsulated AA as W=2.1*W4*W2/W3. Count encapsulation as 1-W/(W1*original percentage of AA/100).

Mine homemade LVC gets result about 50% or more. Batch I made Yesterday get 65%. Theoretical geometrical maximum is 74%.
My Zesterday data:
W1=8.1g, W2=39.4g, W3=35.8g, W4=0.222g, percentage of AA in LVC is 17.9%.

Simnple method so why don't use it to check our products?

Note: You have to separate liposomes out, because they would be destroyed by sodium bicarbonate crystals and all will fail.
Jaromir
Last edited by jara_j on Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#189  Post by jeff » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:50 am

Greetings. I am new here and have been experimenting with the Quality Liposomal formula. I see a discrepancy between that formula and the Livon patent that would seem to reduce the number of liposomes.

Specifically, the lipid used in the Livon Livon formula contains 50% phosphatidylcholine. So the 18.73% in the formula equates to 9.4% PC total. On the other hand, the lipid used in the Quality Liposomal formula contains only 22% phosphatidylcholine. So, the 20.7% used in the Quality Liposomal formula contains only 4.6% PC. As a result, using only 4.6% PC would seem create far fewer liposomes than the Livon formula.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#190  Post by BrightSideOfLife » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:24 pm

The PC that Livon uses is a purified form whereas this thread uses lecithin and soya lecithin has around 22% PC. The purified PC is very expensive stuff. If you are prepared to purchase a pure form of PC then you can do so. Be aware that the other constituents of lecithin can also have an effect on encapsulation.

Compromises have to be made to make it more affordable.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#191  Post by jeff » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:00 am

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate that the other components of lecithin may contribute to encapsulation. Putting that aside for the moment, can you think of any reason not to increase the amount of lecithin to approximate the 9.4% PC in the Livon formula (f the mixture becomes too thick, just add water, right?)

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#192  Post by BrightSideOfLife » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:51 pm

jara_j wrote:There are alvays doubt about encapsulation of home made LVC. If you make LVC with Ascorbic Acid, you can easy test encapsulation by this method. You only need precision scales, sodium bicarbonate and pH meter (or pH stick).

1. Pour out sample of LVC about 10g, record the exact weight (W1).
2 Add deistilled water about 50g, record exact weight of added water (W2).
3. Gently mix and then let Liposoms go down. Pour out water with dissolved non liposomal AA into another glass. You can easily separate up to 90% of it from liposomes. Record weight of separated solution (W3).
4. Measure pH of separated solution and in small steps add sodium bicarbonate and well mix. Wait until it dissolves. Do until pH goes over 7. Record weight of added sodium bicarbonate (W4).
5. Count amount of non encapsulated AA as W=2,1*W4*W2/W3. Count encapsulation as 1-W/(W1*original percentage of AA/100).

Mine homemade LVC gets result about 50% or more. Batch I made Yesterday get 65%. Theoretical geometrical maximum is 74%.
My Zesterday data:
W1=8.1g, W2=39.4g, W3=35.8g, W4=0.222g, percentage of AA in LVC is 17.9%.

Simnple method so why don't use it to check our products?

Note: You have to separate liposomes out, because they would be destroyed by sodium bicarbonate crystals and all will fail.
Jaromir

I have used your figures and cannot get the encapsulation that you say you accomplished for the provided data.
Encapsulation comes out as 0.33582974899829346735914362809071 and none encapsulated AA (W) gives me 0.51308044692737430167597765363128 this is assuming that the 2,1 is 2.1

Is there an error somewhere? I have calculated it many times but get no where close to 65 (%).

This would need to work correctly before anyone is going to use it.

jeff wrote:Thank you for your reply. I appreciate that the other components of lecithin may contribute to encapsulation. Putting that aside for the moment, can you think of any reason not to increase the amount of lecithin to approximate the 9.4% PC in the Livon formula (f the mixture becomes too thick, just add water, right?)


I cannot think of any reason not to increase the amount of lecithin. I do not use soya lecithin so need to add more to compensate anyway because the lecithin that I use has a lower PC level. Maybe decrease the ascorbic acid and increase the lecithin.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#193  Post by jara_j » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:40 am

BrightSideOfLife wrote:I have used your figures and cannot get the encapsulation that you say you accomplished for the provided data.
Encapsulation comes out as 0.33582974899829346735914362809071 and none encapsulated AA (W) gives me 0.51308044692737430167597765363128 this is assuming that the 2,1 is 2.1

Is there an error somewhere? I have calculated it many times but get no where close to 65 (%).

This would need to work correctly before anyone is going to use it.



Non encapsulated 0.51 g is right. Total amount of AA is 8.1*0.179=1.45g. Encapsulation 1- (0.51/1.45)=0,65 this is 65%

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#194  Post by SorinC » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:33 am

Hi to everyone on this forum ! I'm a new member on this forum and a very beginner in LipVitC subject. Just purchased all the ingredients and tools needed to make some LipVitC but still in research of which method to apply. English is not my first language but I will do my best.
As I said, at the moment, I'm still undecided (probably like most of you around here) which method seems to be more promising in liposomes creation. That's why I am here on this forum, trying, like all of you to find out the answer. In my "research " I came across with this 2 videos:
https://youtu.be/SAV4UlNr19I
https://youtu.be/gRx3BB0KCHg

Following the discussions on this forum, I can easily tell, by far, I'm not the smartest person here, regarding this topic(liposomes and LipVitC).
I'm not a lazy person, I really like to do my research, but as I said above, I do think , many of you might have better understanding if this videos can help all of us in this topic. Probably if any info from this videos might be useful for us, someone can "translate it" and adapt it to our subject.

Another question I want to ask all of you, is, if any of you came across with those " studies/articles " regarding the increased risk of cancer(especially prostate cancer ) on high choline consumption??
On his "welcoming on the forum" e-mail, Owen told me: " ... choline has so many health benefits, I suspect the "cancer risk" is a false story/study designed to scare people away from this important nutrient."
Like all of you, I'm trying to make LipVitC to improve my family's and my own health, not to make it worse.
Is there any of you who might have any information about this "studies" ? Real or false stories???
Thank you very much for understanding!!!
Sorin


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