Page 1 of 1
Vein collapse - why?
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:03 am
by ofonorow
Hi Owen,
My wife has had some vein collapse, perhaps from our ascorbic acid IV (per Univ. Kansas protocol). I see there is a discussion on the site regarding sodium ascorbate vs ascorbic acid. I still don't quite understand how pH balanced McGuff Compounding Pharmacy ascorbic acid might be more damaging than a properly prepared Cathcart solution. They both seem to be in the proper pH range. I realize a fresh Cathcart batch might be more potent but I don't see what might cause the McGuff AA to be more damaging.
Thanks!
I don't think we have ever said a particular brand was damaging, but any damage to the veins is apparently dependent on the pH.
What was the pH of the McGuff?
Check his document but I believe Cathcart said his solution was 7.3 pH. If the McGuff pH is around 7.1 to 7.3 there shouldn't be a problem.
Now the sodium might play a part in the safety for reasons that I don't quite understand.
Here is what we think we know. The Cathcart method/protocol is gentle on veins.
There are large clinics that ruin people's veins, obviously unintentionally, and probably because the pH is too low.
Re: Vein collapse - why?
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:35 am
by ivcfp
McGuff shows pH to be 5.5 - 7.0 on their label. I'm guessing my problem was a too acidic solution and an infusion rate that was too fast. I'll be moving to the Cathcart solution and perhaps the 3x/1 day approach (I'll get there slowly). The idea of a fresh batch each infusion appeals to me.
Re: Vein collapse - why?
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:07 pm
by ivcfp
Forgot to mention tonicity, which worried our oncologist (who is so patient with our outside therapies). Sterile IV water is hypotonic, which can cause a lower concentration of solutes outside the cell than inside the cell. This imbalance can result in water rushing into the cell, causing it to burst.
Re: Vein collapse - why?
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:49 am
by ivcfp
After reading C Foundation info/forums I decided to use the only form of sodium ascorbate (Cathcart's) I could find sold by VCF. After mixing my initial batch it appeared much more cloudy and perhaps thicker than the McGuff ascorbic acid I've been using. I called the supplier and was informed there was pectin, an inert substance in the formula. Not very happy with that as I want complete details of what's is going into my wife's body. I was told this particular formulation was for oral use but has been used for IV by others with good results.
My question is to those who have used Vitamin C Foundation approved Cathcart's Sodium Ascorbate in IV solution. Are there any precautions taken beyond cautious dosing, proper sterile methods and .2um filtering? Also, is there a better sodium ascorbate powder out there for my application?
Also, to Owen, your quick and honest responses are very much appreciated.
Re: Vein collapse - why?
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:29 am
by ofonorow
The forum is how we discovered the issue with pectin - not on the spec sheets, but delving into the DSM product descriptions. In any case, our products are intended for oral use only. (We have doctors who have reported near miraculous results and for all we know, the addition of the pectin was fortuitous. You can search LEF.ORG for the anti-cancer properties of pectin.)
Our latest batch of sodium ascorbate just delivered is pectin-free and says so on the label.