The TrifecTA Study Begins

Discussion of the 2009 Noble Prize in Medicine, focusing on substances that reduce telomere shortening by activating the human telomerase enzyme

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The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:55 am

Here are my wife and my baseline Life Length Telomere results. I think rather than embed, I'll provide the links. http://www.immortal-telomeres.com/pdfs/

Discussion,

Page 1. e.g. http://www.immortal-telomeres.com/pdfs/OwenBaselineMarch13LifeLengthPg1.pdf

http://www.immortal-telomeres.com/pdfs/MarianneBaselineMarch13LifeLengthPg1.pdf

Section 1. Your Telomere Lengths
These are the scores most telomere tests show – the median telomere length.
Owen 10,700 base pairs (or 10.7 Kb)
Wife 11,200 base pairs (or 11.2 Kb)

My first reaction was shucks – right in the middle – normal, even after all that vitamin C. . However, thinking about it, this is most probably a skewed population because only those that can afford having their telomeres measured and are interested in their TA-65 results are included. If the entire population was included, I suspect we would shift up some.

But the median doesn't mean all that much.

Page 1. Section 2. Comparison by age band and percentiles.

Just saying the younger you are, the higher the median length.

Page 1. Section 3. Your estimated biological age.

Very simple way to view the report. In my case I am almost two years older “biologically”
while my wife is biologically about a year younger. (Maybe this is why woman live longer than men?)

Page 2. http://www.immortal-telomeres.com/pdfs/OwenBaselineMarch13LifeLengthPg2.pdf
http://www.immortal-telomeres.com/pdfs/MarianneBaselineMarch13LifeLengthPg2.pdf

Telomere length distribution of your sample.

I had a tough time with this when I first saw it.
This is a histogram or frequency diagram, and I believe the black line is your median score.
The green are “20% shortest telemores”. The height is the relative number against other lengths.

That mountain (your shortest telomeres in green) is what we will be trying to reduce in our study, as well as move the median to the right.

I'd like to see a more detailed report of each line on this histogram – how many at 5000, how many at 4,500, etc. or fewer.

Page 3 the longitudinal analysis

These charts will start to mean something as we have our second and possibly third measurements. They are designed to compare multiple Life Length tests after taking our new TrifecTA liposomal activator.

Owen R. Fonorow, Orthopath (Orthomolecular Naturopath)
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Re: Telomeres (and new Anti-Aging Forum)

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:43 am

These are pointers to two important new topics in our new life extension forum:

TrifecTA Liposomal Activator Study Begins
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=11815&p=39189#p39189

Error in Telomere Measurement (email from Bill Andrews)
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=11818


The first link to the study includes my wife and my first (baseline) Life Length telomere test results and a discussion.

The second link by Bill Andrews is a must read about Telomere Length measurements.

We are not making a product announcement about our new liposomal TrifecTA product, at least until after preliminary follow-on testing confirms what we believe - that our product contains the same molecule as TA-65. However, it was expensive to develop and we are making it available to brave souls early who are willing to take the chance that we are betting on: https://inteligentvitaminc.com//cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=21

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Re: Telomeres (and new Anti-Aging Forum)

Post Number:#3  Post by gofanu » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:30 am

Owen-
Things to consider, ref post 2
Maybe a few monkey wrenches here, sorry.

"Here are some things I have noticed since I got my nutrition near current 2007, plus glitches 2009 when I put the I/Se way up.

1. I require less sleep. Always a night person. midnight to 4am best. Now, I seem to never get to sleep until 6am or later. It was and is hard to interact with the normal world! I slept 16+hr/d and could not stay awake two hr straight, after I stopped my life threatening trucking career, 1990. After a year I got to around ten hr as normal. That stayed the need, though all too often not the achievement. When I raised Mg from 250 to 750mg/d in 2007, sleep dropped to 8hr. Adding iodine 25mg/d dropped it to 5hr 15min, exactly, self wakening. I can go back to sleep for another 1 1/2 hr, but do so only if it is really cold or pouring rain, etc.
Mind? Well, all the stuff I write here is straight out of my head, and I do the same in another completely unrelated realm, or two, maybe three.

2. Vivid dreaming - I have rarely had remembered dreams, and that has not changed through all of this. The few I do have are very vivid though.

"Some things I am hoping the liposomal TA activator will help with, in addition to all the existing benefits I enjoy from my high vitamin C intake."

"1. My hair is all grey." My hair/beard was dead white from 1995, I was in another very high stress situation. Stayed that way until the 2009 iodine/Se jump, when colour returned. Dark in beard, the blond of my childhood on head, grey throughout.


"2. Gland rejuvenation." Skin/hair is properly oiled, not too much, not too little. Hair loss dropped from lifetime normal by 90% when I added iodine at around 25mg/d. Same for dog, cats, people. This was noticeable-obvious in two days from start. Salivary glands work as never in my life.
Lacrimal glands too. Mucosa are all notably wetter, have to blow nose a little bit often, but it never gets clogged up. Sort of like a healthy dog!

"On the same order, my adrenal output of cortisol is "insufficient" and must be supplemented. If my adrenal glands are rejuventated, I would potentially be able to tell by slowly reducing my hydrocortisone and feeling whether that triggers inflammation, particularly in my fingers and joints."
I have no pain, inflammation, or other sign of low adrenal/cortisone/cortisol since 2001, when I figured out the AA/Magnesium/calcium/panto pain treatment. Any change to this with iodine/selenium was slight but for the better. I can now go 48hr without sleep, working hard, and a 5:15 sleep leaves me feeling normal. I used to do that and it took several lazy days to recover.

"3. Sex Drive/Libido." Lets just say that I have more than I have anything to do with it - as high or higher than anytime in my life.

"If others have any ideas for items (questions) we should include on our study questionnaire, we would appreciate it."
I think you need to include these nutritional items in any such investigations.
Good luck with this interesting experiment, though I see it as possibly repairing that which need not be broken.
One thing I have learned in my other life - Maintenance is cheaper and better than repair.

FRM

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Re: Telomeres (and new Anti-Aging Forum)

Post Number:#4  Post by gofanu » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:38 am

Double post - computer f-up, sorry!

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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Thu May 21, 2015 9:43 am

Our TrifecTA study continues and we posted 10 (of the 12) baseline Life Length reports.

http://immortal-telomeres.com/pdfs/

The two missing reports are female and I hope to post them soon.

Here is a summary of the 10 baseline reports showing Median Telomere Length, or what most companies report.


Code: Select all

AZ01 – Male   age 49.2  Median Telomere Length  10.7  Crit. Short Telomeres (20th %) 5.6
AZ03 – Female age 67.8  Median Telomere Length  10.5  Crit. Short Telomeres (20th %) 6.0
AZ04 – Female age 48.8  Median Telomere Length  11.6  Crit. Short Telomeres (20th %) 5.9
IL02 – Female age 54.2  Median Telomere Length  11.4  Crit. Short Telomeres (20th %) 6.0
IL03 – Male   age 56.5  Median Telomere Length   9.6  Crit. Short Telomeres (20th %) 5.4
IL05 – Male   age 68.4  Median Telomere Length   7.5  Crit. Short Telomeres (20th %) 4.6
IL06 – Male   age 63.0  Median Telomere Length   8.6  Crit. Short Telomeres (20th %) 4.9
IL07 – Male   age 68.6  Median Telomere Length   8.9    Crit. Short Telomeres (20th %) 5.4
Owen
IL13 – Male   age 61.2  Median Telomere Length  10.7  Crit. Short Telomeres (20th %) 5.6
Marianne
IL04 – Female age 62.2  Median Telomere Length  11.2  Crit. Short Telomeres (20th %) 5.7

Added final two

Code: Select all


IL v06 - Female  age 48  Median Telomere Length  9.4  Crit. Short Telomeres (20%)  5.0 **

IL  1002 Female Age 65  Median  Telomere Length 11.0  Criti. Short Telomeres (20%) 5.9

**(Her doc says hers are the worst for her age they have seen and she is an excellent candidate for our study)

The advantage of Life Length is the critically short telomeres report. This number is what we hope TrifecTA will have an effect lengthening. (I will soon be taking my first follow-up measurement and will keep you posted.)

I am happier about my personal score. I notice that most women seem to be biologically younger. Based on Median Telomere Length, mine is the same as the 49 year-old male in our study :D (We thought he might have been too young to include, but now it will be interesting.)


.
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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:20 am

The news is that my wife and I have taken our first Life Length follow-up. (Crossing my fingers that my blood is useable).

From Dr. Park's experience, we shouldn't expect much after only 4 months, but the last two months have been high (50 mg liposomal cycloastragenol) for my wife and very high for me (100 mg liposomal cycloastragenol). We are hoping we have taken enough to see something - if there is anything to see regarding telomere lengthening.

I will update the last post now that we have all twelve baselines posted at immortal-telomeres.com/pdfs

IL 7006 Female Age 49 Median 9.4 Short 20% 5.0 (Her doc says hers are the worst for her age they have seen and she is an excellent candidate for our study)
IL 11002 Female Age 65 Median 11.0 Short 20% 5.9

Here is our study group sorted by median telomere length:


Code: Select all

AZ04 – Female age  48.8  Median   11.6   Short    5.9
IL02 –  Female age  54.2  Median   11.4    Short   6.0
IL04 –  Female age  62.2  Median   11.2   Short    5.7  (Marianne)
IL1002 Female Age  65    Median    11.0    Short   5.9
AZ01 – Male  age  49.2  Median   10.7   Short   5.6
IL13 –  Male  age  61.2  Median   10.7   Short  5.6   (Owen)
AZ03 – Female age  67.8  Median  10.5   Short    6.0
IL03 –  Male   age    56.5  Median    9.6    Short   5.4
ILs06 - Female age  48    Median     9.4    Short   5.0
IL07 – Male   age    68.6  Median     8.9    Short   5.4
IL06 – Male   age    63.0  Median     8.6    Short   4.9
IL05 – Male   age    68.4  Median     7.5    Short   4.6
 

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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:11 am

One of the study participants (IL 07) asked me to explain the numbers.

Owen, I'm not certain exactly how to understand the scores. Could you please explain to me more in depth.



There are a lot of measurements reduced to those two numbers.

Code: Select all

IL07 – Male   age    68.6  Median     8.9    Short   5.4


Most telomere measurements only include the first (median number) which in your case is 8.9, (I interpret to be 8,900 DNA base pairs is the median. Half your telomeres are longer and half you telomeres (that were measured) are shorter.

Life Length adds the "20% percentile number of shortest or critically short telomeres," which in your case is 5.4.

This number is an attempt to show how close you are to crisis --> senescence (point when cells that divide can no longer.) This means that 20% of your measured telomeres are less then 5,400 base pairs.

Now cells less than 5000 base pairs cannot divide, and per my last group email, from test tube studies, certain cells stop dividing (senescence) when telomeres are in the range 5000 to 8000 base pairs. When your telomeres are longer than 8000, you are in a safe range according to current understanding.

The studies with TA-65 (if valid) indicate that when telomerase is activated to grow telomeres - it preferentially grows the shortest telomeres in the cell. So if TrifecTA works, the second (short) number is what we expect would increase.

I hope this answers the question.
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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:50 am

Our first progress results are in, and they are somewhat disappointing.

Baseline (Feb 2015)

IL04 – (Female age 62.2) Median 11.2 Short 5.7 (Marianne)

IL13 – (Male age 61.2) Median 10.7 Short 5.6 (Owen)

1st Followup (June 2015)

IL09 - (Female age 62.7) Median 10.8 KB Short 6.2 (Marianne)

IL08 - (Male age 61.4) Median 10.2 KB Short 5.6 (Owen)

Marianne was on 50 mg liposomal cycloastragenol while I (Owen) was on 100 mg daily.

The expectation is that our shortest telomeres would be affected most based upon current knowledge.

Owen (no change in short telomeres at 100 mg)

Marianne's shortest 20% increased from 5.7 to 6.2 (I could not find the error for the short report, but the +- for the median is .4 KB)

We know the vagaries of these measures, but a preliminary conclusion is that there may not be a benefit from the doubling of the dosage.

Another reason to continue is the knowledge that there may be a reason it took 5 years for Ed Park's telomeres to reach those of a teenager. The Blackburn text points to research that telomeres that are lengthened by telomerase, are lengthened during a specific phase of cell division. So the lengthening is a function of how often cells divide, and this may explain why a considerable period of time is required.

Marianne has had to reduce her daily intake from 50 mg to 10 mg since the first baseline.

I am thinking of reducing my 100 mg to 50 mg.

There is one participant with very short telomeres for her age who has upped her intake to 100 mg. Her next report is due soon and it will be very interesting.

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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#9  Post by ofonorow » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:12 am

TA Sciences is unhappy with TrifecTA and we have been forced to retain advice of counsel.

We need to have some idea how effective the formula is before we can decide whether it is worth the legal expenses.

Our original plan was for my wife and I to be out front, and trying to determine the minimum length of time to show some result visa vis shortest telomere lengths. We may have to retest all participants earlier than planned. (Note: the advice from counsel is that if the results are good, not to publicize them until the formula has been professionally patent and trademark protected. )

So reasoning that only the daughter cell's shortest telomeres can be lengthened (during the S phase of cell division) and not the mother cell's DNA (used to make the copy), the question becomes how likely are we to notice such changes - given that the mother cells may still be around? And we are only measuring cells with DNA in the blood. (Supposedly all skin cells regenerate, perhaps every 7 days!)
http://stemcell.stanford.edu/research/

Every one of us completely regenerates our own skin every 7 days. A cut heals itself and disappears in a week or two. Every single cell in our skeleton is replaced every 7 years.


and this http://www.divinecaroline.com/self/wellness/truth-about-your-bodys-cell-regeneration

The cells in our bodies are constantly dividing, regenerating, and dying, but each cell’s life cycle is different. The cells lining the stomach, because they’re exposed to acid, replace themselves about every five days. Cells in the epidermis last about a week. Red blood cells live for approximately four months in the body, while hepatocytes (liver cells) live about five. These hardworking but disposable cells take a lot of punishment; they’re easily manufactured and easily replaced.

On the other end of the spectrum, some cells take much longer than seven years to regenerate. A bone completely remodels itself and replaces all of its cells every ten years or so. Cells in the intestinal tract (other than the lining of the stomach) last for about fifteen years, the same as certain muscles, such as the intercostals between the ribs.

Then there are the cells that rarely—if ever—turn over. For example, females do not regenerate oocytes; all the eggs they will ever have are present at birth. Teeth don’t regenerate. Cardiac tissues and neurons, although once thought to be irreplaceable, have been shown to be capable of regeneration, albeit at an extremely slow rate. According to a study published in the April 2009 issue of Science, researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden ascertained that for cardiomyocytes, the yearly rate of cellular turnover is about 1 percent starting at birth, and that the rate declines steadily with age. They also estimated that a person who lived until age seventy-five would not yet have replaced even half of his or her original heart cells. In addition, scientists have discovered that although certain areas of the brain are indeed capable of neurogenesis, other areas, such as the cerebral cortex and the visual cortex, are not, and people’s neurons in those areas are with them from birth.

The human body contains about ten trillion individual cells. Taking into account all of the specialized tissues—those that regenerate quickly and those that don’t—an adult’s bodily cells are likely to be, on average, between eleven and fifteen years old.


The question for our study is how long is the turnover for the cells in the blood that are being examined (given red blood cells do not have DNA and are not part of the equation).

For Ed Park, the increase in telomere length was first noticed in about year 4 of taking TA-65.

According to this article (claiming these numbers are used by forensic science) http://www.livescience.com/33179-does-human-body-replace-cells-seven-years.html


white blood cells live on average more than a year.
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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#10  Post by ofonorow » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:16 am

One of our early drop-outs had his second Life Length test, and the results are encouraging. 3rd follow-up (Me, my wife and this male drop out)

The interesting thing is that his median telomere length went from "very short" to normal for his age, from 7.5Kb to 8.8Kb !!!
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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#11  Post by ofonorow » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:53 am

The fast result in the previous post made me think about how fast we should expect to notice the results of our "genetic engineering" (extending the length of telomeres.)

Life Length tells me that the cells they use to calculate telomere length are


peripheral blood mononuclear cells.


According to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_blood_mononuclear_cell

A peripheral blood mononuclear cell (PBMC) is any blood cell having a round nucleus (as opposed to a lobed nucleus).[1] For example: a lymphocyte, a monocyte or a macrophage. These blood cells are a critical component in the immune system to fight infection and adapt to intruders. The lymphocyte population consists of T cells (CD4 and CD8 positive ~75%), B cells and NK cells (~25% combined).


Given the assumption that telomeres are only lenthened during cell division, and primarily when the enzyme telomerase is present, then the ability to measure increased telomere length is a function of how often the PBMC cells are produced (a cell divison from a stem cell) or divide.

Following the link to monocytes, for example.


(2) in response to inflammation signals, monocytes can move quickly (approx. 8–12 hours) to sites of infection in the tissues and divide/differentiate into macrophages and dendritic cells to elicit an immune response.


In theory , given the cells that Life Length measures, an inflammation/immune response would increase the likelihood of seeing a telomore increase if TrifecTA or any TA product was working. (For me, with my vitamin D UVB lite, and my bioidentical hormone replacement, it might take a much longer time for these cells to divide.)

The question becomes, if this theory is correct, whether somehow inducing an immune response could speed up our study? Thoughts on this appreciated.
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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#12  Post by ofonorow » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:30 am

The second round of blood testing begins, and unfortunately, for legal reasons, we may not be able to share the results (which will require at least one month to process.) It is a little earlier than we planned, but it should provide us with a go/no go.

Here is pictorial proof of (most) of the bottles my wife and I consumed until yesterday. We did throw some away before I got the idea to preserve them for this picture. (And after the last blood draw, my wife reduced her consumption.) I have remained on more than 10 servings daily without any problems that I am aware of.


Image
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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#13  Post by ofonorow » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:43 am

We have the first report (of the second round of tests) for a 48+ year old woman whose telomeres were very short for her age. This woman was key.

She saw her shortest telomeres increase by 400 base pairs in only six months. (Her median length also increased.)

Keep in mind that telomeres are only supposed to shorten, with various life style changes known that may delay the shortening.

While this woman was key, we are very anxious for the rest of the results to come in. Almost all should be available in the next day or two,


For the record, this woman was on a high dosage (10 servings) for a couple of months, to give us every chance of seeing a positive result in such a short time. Note if this rate holds among others in the study group, then we would anticipate it possible to increase by 1,000 base per year, and if you know your current telomere lengths, you can calculate how long it would take to reach the 10,000 (teenage) bench mark.
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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#14  Post by ofonorow » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:45 am

Another report to me is staggering, so I am violating legal advice to keep this quiet.

Code: Select all

IL  1002 Female Age 65  Median  Telomere Length 11.0  Criti. Short Telomeres (20%) 5.9


This woman is a medical doctor, was compliant, and told me she was taking most of what was in TrifecTA before entering the study.

Code: Select all

Summary

First Test:     Median Length 11.0          (May 2015)
Second test:   Median Lenth 12.5   !!!  (Sept 2015)

First Test:      Short Telomeres 5.9        (May 2015)
Second Test:  Short Telomeres  6.6  !!!  (Sept 2015)

​First Test:  Estimated Age: ​  64.8         (May 2015)
Secont Test: Estimated Age:   60.8 !!!  (Sept 2015)


This result was in roughly 4 months. .7 KB increase in short telomeres
1.5 KB increase in median telemore length.

So my curiosity is what else this alternative medical doctor does that may have amplified the effect? (If I learn, I will report)
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Re: The TrifecTA Study Begins

Post Number:#15  Post by ofonorow » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:12 am

Thinking about our results so far.

All women who have remained in our study have extended/grown their telomeres (in a very short time as far as these studies go.)

All the men have remained constant, but we have not demonstrated any lengthening in our telomeres (yet) even with high compliance and large dosages.

Re: male vs females, other than body weight, the other difference is hormonal.

In my case, with no lengthening of telomeres, other than a small darkening of my beard near the mustache, requirement for less sleep and the coincidental weight loss, there have been no noticeable anti-aging effects. (Ed Park reported that it took five years for his telomeres to grow, and they declined during the first year.) This makes it a very tough sell. The only way I can see for a man to determine this expensive product is working is by monitoring with very expensive telomere length testing, and we still don't have a positive result in a man after about 9 months.

As far as the Bruce Ames "ALC and ALA" components, the results are as mentioned, thus dissappointing.

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