Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Physician Reference and discussion of the methods, protocols and effects of intravenous vitamin C (versus oral or liposomal).

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Dolev
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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#16  Post by Dolev » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:34 am

No, I never did, but I usually ask. Actually, I had one person come in with a blood test for it. I don't know why they decided to test. He was at the low end of normal. I think the problem may only be where there is a severe deficiency. I truly don't want to kill anyone, so I'm a bit cautious.
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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#17  Post by majkinetor » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:16 am

There are a few reports of severe harm caused by highdose vitamin C administration. Nevertheless, the death of a 68-year old African American man was not attributed to intravenous injection of 80 grams of vitamin C on 2 consecutive days per se, but to his coincident glucose-6-phosphate deficiency (Campbell et al. 1975). Such isolated instances have no public health relevance

http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/hemila/safety/


I know for several more cases. Not something to be concerned with in general like I said, but clearly important information. Riordan did test each subject ffs.

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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#18  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:07 am

Dolev wrote:No, I never did, but I usually ask. Actually, I had one person come in with a blood test for it. I don't know why they decided to test. He was at the low end of normal. I think the problem may only be where there is a severe deficiency. I truly don't want to kill anyone, so I'm a bit cautious.


This is starting to remind me of the one case in the literature where vitamin A "killed someone" that was found and written about by Dr. Don Davis. The person who succumbed to vitamin A had drank gallons of carrot juice. An estimated 3 million IUs. (And thus was probably killed by beta carotene!)

Anyway, I got the chance to discuss this issue yesterday with Dr. Levy over the phone. He remembers about four references in CURING THE INCURABLE to ill effects, even deaths attributed to vitamin C, including one with discolored urine. What he can't remember is whether they checked for the G6PD deficiency "after the fact?" (If you look at the web sites devoted to this enzyme deficiency, ascorbic acid is considered a "mild" problem, where aspirin danger is considered "high." How do we know that the one case in the literature shouldn't be attributed to taking an aspirin - rather than vitamin C?!)

But according to Dr. Levy, the "fix" is simple. He says the red blood cells will not break down when glutathione levels are normal. Therefore, if a doctor wants to play it safe, or suspects this problem, Levy said the doctor can protect the individual by giving them Lypo-GSH (liposomal glutathione) for a few days prior to IV/C. Problem (if there really is one) solved.
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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#19  Post by Dolev » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:27 am

Nice.
N-acetyl cysteine should then offer some protection also, as it raises glutathione, at least somewhat.
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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#20  Post by majkinetor » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:08 am

Yeah, clearly not conflict of interest with Levy...

IMO NAC + E are enough.

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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#21  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:22 am

Received an email from Burton Goldberg about this IV doc:
None of the IV therapies administered at our clinic have ever caused any harm to any patient in our practice and we have now administered well over 500,000 IV treatments over the last 16 years. Dr. Buttar currently serves as the Chairman of the American Board of Clinical Metal Toxicology, specializing in the treatment of heavy metal toxicity using advanced IV therapies.

http://www.drbuttar.com/medical-treatments.html
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® is a trademark of the Institute for Orthomolecular Studies

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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#22  Post by gofanu » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:11 pm

Everybody including Levy has used this rare but possible CYA BS story to get patients to get tests and Doctor appointments and little to no effective treatment. They might have "saved" .001% of the patients they have let suffer/die in miserable poverty, most or all of whom could have been treated and released, or instructed and released to be treated by self or family/friends.

Now you gotta take Majic Lypospheric Voodoo Juice (pay at the door) , but for the love of God and the FDA, don't read about or take selenium, one of or the limiting factor in glutathione function, see GPX. Or a LOT of Vitamin D. And as "side effects" - see other rant - what do you suppose the OTHER 100+ (and climbing) selenium dependent proteins do? Prior to 1970, selenium was a "deadly poison", and they WILL let us all pay to die before they look at the facts.

Perspective:
We are STILL fussing about vitamin C, and scurvy. Scurvy was known to result from certain things lacking; we all know about Lind, c1750 and the whole lemon/lime/story.
Imagine my surprise when I found out about Admiral Sir Richard Hawkins, HM Navy, who discovered and used the same info c 1593 or earlier, to protect his sailors with oranges and lemons, and thereby by one account, possibly be responsible for the 1588 defeat of the Spanish Armada (seeing as how he had the only healthy sailors in the battle). This win is attributed to Sir Francis Drake, Hawkin's CO.

More than 150 years later, in the same navy, Lind made "his discovery" c1750, and was ridiculed in the extreme until his death in 1794, with sick sailors being flogged for laziness, much as we now poison children and the sick we create.
Lind's discovery may have resulted from Sir Thomas Willis' treatise on sugar and scurvy, c 1674. It was then known that while scurvy had always existed, it was the introduction to the fleet, of refined sugar and rum, that was causing the problem, vastly increased from earlier times. Willis invented the term "diabetes mellitus". Not wanting to do a Galileo, his patient the King being essentially the head of the sugar cartel, his work was not published until he died, and it took the sugar cartel 40 years to find a doctor who would write a rebuttal.

Shades of Prof Ely's "glucose-ascorbate antagonism"!!

After Lind's death, the situation was reversed, and the famous "limes" were instituted. But they are no smarter nor more honorable today than they were 425 years ago. And we not weller too!

If this "organization" wants to do something useful, and maybe even raise some cash, obtain the rights to and republish "Sugar Blues"; William Dufty; 1975; Chilton. This can and should be a best seller, and Dufty should get ALL the damned prizes for writing it.

I leave thee with a quotation:
"White man: How do your people escape scurvy"
Indian :That is a White Man's disease.
WM: Isn't it possible for an Indian to contract scurvy?
I:It is possible, but the Indian knows how to prevent scurvy. The White Man does not.
WM: Why don't you tell the White Man how to prevent it?
I: The White Man knows too much to ask the Indian anything."
(Jacques Cartier asked, in 1535!)

FRM

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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#23  Post by majkinetor » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:29 am

Awesome gofanu

Here is the epic text I just found after gofanu mentioned Sugar Blues:
http://www.quantumbalancing.com/news/sugar_blues.htm

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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#24  Post by gofanu » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:43 am

Indeed.
Now you know why I mentioned it
And why I think it more important than almost anything I can think of, up to and including vitamin C as we know and love it.
The whole book is like that.
Bought it in the Library used book sale for $0.25! (actually 5/$1)

FRM

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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#25  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:50 am

This all started because an emailer asked about side effects of IV/C.

majkinetor claimed the side effect with G6PD deficiency was "death"

I don't see any reason to disparage Dr. Levy, as he certainly doesn't recommend that doctors test for this, only that if some doctor is concerned, there is an easy fix. (He had to include those citations in the literature in his book for completeness.)

And I don't understand where the rest of this is coming from?
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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#26  Post by majkinetor » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:49 am

majkinetor claimed the side effect with G6PD deficiency was "death"

ROFLMAO. I said you may die, not that you will die. Get serious.

I don't see any reason to disparage Dr. Levy, as he certainly doesn't recommend that doctors test for this

Awesome... so Riordan was an idiot. Good to know.

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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#27  Post by gofanu » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:27 am

"I don't see any reason to disparage Dr. Levy, as he certainly doesn't recommend that doctors test for this, only that if some doctor is concerned, there is an easy fix. "

I will concede to being excessively hard on Dr Levy's handling of this, having just reread it. Make no mistake, I think that book is a superb and critical bit of scientific literature, and will be forever grateful to Dr. Tom. No disparagement meant here, on this issue.

But:
"(He had to include those citations in the literature in his book for completeness.)"
= CYA
I do understand why even the best MUST include this stuff, but at some point, emphasis has to shift to the real cost/benefit to real patients.
In this thread, the "side effects" of IVC are what was asked, and what the establishment WILL use to deny a patient the rightful and humane treatment. The G6PD thing is a big one - it is everywhere and often cited.

The "rest of this" comes from the good Dr Levy's recommendation for lipospheric glutathione, to counteract the "effects" of G6PD etc. It may well do, but is Yet another patent medicine, beloved of some part of the medical world.

FRM

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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#28  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:38 am

majkinetor wrote:
majkinetor claimed the side effect with G6PD deficiency was "death"

ROFLMAO. I said you may die, not that you will die. Get serious.

I don't see any reason to disparage Dr. Levy, as he certainly doesn't recommend that doctors test for this

Awesome... so Riordan was an idiot. Good to know.


Readers will have to make their own judgments on who is the idiot... Riordan? Freudian? What are you smoking?

Your G6PD concern is ill founded, even with the word "may", as we still haven't seen any real evidence that any person with any severity of this enzyme deficiency has ever become ill from vitamin C - IV or otherwise. So the reference to death, while perhaps thought and argument provoking, is not worthy of someone who comments on vitamin C at this forum.

I'd settle for evidence that someone can become ill who has this deficiency and takes vitamin C.
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® is a trademark of the Institute for Orthomolecular Studies

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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#29  Post by Johnwen » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:44 am

My question would be, "Why not get tested if your going to get IV-C?" It's a CHEAP fast test and most labs don't require a script to do it. However they will want your doc's name etc. to send hm/her the results also. Which just says -or+!!

Here's some info I found on it!

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/ivccancerpt.shtml

http://www.kumed.com/medical-services/i ... amin-c-faq

Here's an overveiw from G6PD.Org
Theres internal links for more info.

http://g6pddeficiency.org/index.php
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Questions related to N. Z Farmer Smith and Leukemia

Post Number:#30  Post by majkinetor » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:48 am

Cmon Joshween, you are completely out of perspective, lol.

Maybe you had a bad weed or something... :roll:


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