Telomere Timebomb

[ofonorow]

A friend/customer of The Vitamin C Store recommended the book Telomere Timebomb by Ed Park (and this person is paying an extraordinary amount for a plant extract that can lengthen DNA Telomeres.) I have started the book and it is fascinating, as Mr. Spock might say. I also remembered referencing a Japanese study showing that a form of vitamin C intracellularly had a significant impact in slowing the inevitable telomere shortenning in the Japanese experiment.

Thought about putting his as another factoid - but it deserves its own topic.


Furumoto K, Inoue E, Nagao N, Hiyama E, Miwa N. 1998. Age-dependent telomere shortening is slowed down by enrichment of intracellular vitamin C via suppression of oxidative stress. 1998: Life Sci.63(11):935-48.

[url]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?ter ... ive+stress[/url].

Life Sci. 1998;63(11):935-48.
Age-dependent telomere shortening is slowed down by enrichment of intracellular vitamin C via suppression of oxidative stress.
Furumoto K1, Inoue E, Nagao N, Hiyama E, Miwa N.
Author information
Abstract

Telomeres in eukaryotic somatic cells are destined to the age-dependent shortening, which has not been demonstrated to correlate to direct lesion of telomeric DNA by reactive oxygen intermediates (ROI); still less explicable is the inhibitory effect of ROI-scavenging on telomere shortening. Here, we succeeded in artificial slowdown of age-dependent telomere shortening to 52-62% of the untreated control, in human vascular endothelial cells, by addition of the oxidation-resistant type of ascorbic acid (Asc), Asc-2-O-phosphate (Asc2P), which concurrently achieved both extension of cellular life-span and prevention of cell size enlargement indicative of cellular senescence. The results are attributable to a 3.9-fold more marked enrichment of intracellular Asc (Asc(in)) by addition of Asc2P, subsequently dephosphorylated before or during transmembrane influx, than by addition of Asc itself, and also attributed to diminution of intracellular ROI to 53% of the control level by Asc2P; telomerase activity was at a trace level and underwent an age-dependent decline, which was significantly decelerated by Asc2P. Thus, age-dependent telomere-shortening can be decelerated by suppression of intracellular oxidative stress and/or by telomerase retention, both of which are achieved by enriched Asc(in) but not by extracellular Asc overwhelmingly more abundant than Asc(in).

PMID:
9747894
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

--

[ofonorow]

There is evidence that fish oil,4 vitamin D,5 carnosine,6-8 multivitamins,9 and healthy lifestyle choices10 may slow the rate of telomere shortening. This helps explain why people who take care of themselves and use the proper supplements enjoy such profound health benefits.2,11,12

What had not been proven, until now, is what happens if telomere length is substantially restored in already severely degenerated aged organisms.1

http://www.lef.org//Magazine/2011/4/What-We-Are-Doing-To-Reverse-Your-Biological-Age/Page-01?source=search&key=telomere

[ofonorow]

I was surprised that I couldn't find the standard telomere length blood test at Life Extension (LTL - Leukocyte Telomere Length). I also asked their LEF.ORG advisors if the Bruce Ames group measured the telomere length of the lab rats they turned younger using high-dosages of carnitine and Alpha-Lipoic-Acid... We want to know..

[Johnwen]

Here’s an excerpt from one of my previous (rants) writings from 2008 I kind of brushed thru this subject but kind of explains a little what happens to these cells and how they are handled by the body and what influences them!
“Comfort,” meaning to dispose of humanely!

Each time a cell goes thru mitosis a portion of the telomere is lost and when it reach’s a critical length and without the proper telomerase the daughter cell’s will be defective, some even being senescence. They just might need to be comforted (apoptosis)! Who is your body going to Call to comfort these cells?
Ever hear about homocysteine?

[ofonorow]

Ed Park's theory is that while ordinary somatic cells are mortal and do not naturally activate telomerase, (and thus they don't have the built-in mechanism to lengthen their own telomers) various stem cells repeatedly divide to create new mortal cells - are themselves immortal. It is increasing the telomere length in these "immortal" stem cells which is the goal of "telomerase activation therapy". (Reading both sides, there is concern that telomerase activation may activate non-stem cells (mortal cells) postponing apoptosis in cells that would otherwise be regenerated by stem cells. In Park's view, apoptosis is normal and a good thing.

Aging stems from aging stem cells (pardon the pun)

This idea/theory picture sure clears up (in my mind) the normal process of healing that appears otherwise miraculous. It is not ordinary cells which begin dividing after injury, rather, the stem cells divide creating mortal daughters in the processing of restoring tissues. An ongoing stem cell tissue-regeneration process performs this seeming magic.

[Johnwen]

Owen:
In your studies on telomere’s it seems your going after the process of trying to increase their length’s which is fine in it’s self. However I would like to ask you a question in which I will use an analogy for simplicity!

Question:
You have a fuse and it keeps burning till it reach’s the explosive and it does it rapidly which your trying to avoid at all costs.
Which would make more sense.

Lengthen the fuse ?

Keep the flame away from the fuse so it doesn’t burn off ?

If you said keep the flame away your probably on the right track.
Your going to find if you continue studying telomere’s that it’s homocysteine that is the fire, that burns the fuse off.

Here’s just one example where they look at leukocyte telomere’s .
If you search [Homocysteine and Telomere’s] you’ll find a whole lot more research that has been done on it. However Homocysteine can be lowered by the use of supplements which are not profitable to the drug companies so interest in it is scant at best. However you’ll learn their roles in a lot of problems that harm humans. Interesting subject!


http://www.twinsuk.ac.uk/wp-content/upl ... s.2008.pdf

[jimmylesante]

Does excess homocysteine also oxidise cholesterol?

[Johnwen]

In addition to doing damage to the endothelium it also works adversely with that ever evil cholesterol. Here’s a pretty good example of what the C-Heads (doc’s who push statins) are saying about it!

High levels of homocysteine actually change the Low Density Lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol in the body into what is called oxidized Low Density Lipoprotein. This oxidized version is even more damaging to the arteries than excessive amounts of LDL. So not lowering cholesterol and having high levels of homocysteine in the blood leads to a greater risk of stroke. This is because high homocysteine levels causes blood to clot more and further block the arteries.

So those who are on the other side of the coin would say, “ If you lower that ever evil BAD cholesterol LDL it would lower your risk!” Of course they don’t want you to know that homocysteine can be lowered with supplements which would mean lower profit$ for the drug companies. Then your cells could get what they need to survive.

[ofonorow]

Owen:
In your studies on telomere’s it seems your going after the process of trying to increase their length’s which is fine in it’s self.

Not yet classify my activities as "studies" but this book by Park compacts the most important information I have ever read into a short book that can be read and understood by any fifth grader! Quite an achievement in and off itself. For example, I probably know more after one reading about stem cells then if I read a textbook on stem cells, or took a semester college course!

However I would like to ask you a question in which I will use an analogy for simplicity!

Question:
You have a fuse and it keeps burning till it reach’s the explosive and it does it rapidly which your trying to avoid at all costs.
Which would make more sense.

Lengthen the fuse ? [sure]

Keep the flame away from the fuse so it doesn’t burn off ? [probably harder, but the fuse is already burning, correct?]

If you said keep the flame away your probably on the right track.
Your going to find if you continue studying telomere’s that it’s homocysteine that is the fire, that burns the fuse off.

Well, not quite because I did come into this with a little knowledge of telomeres (but none of telomerase). This is from memory.. (fair warning) but when I first heard about them, I incorrectly thought they were at the "ends of DNA" and I read that the Russian who first postulated what these "base pairs" (telomeres) are for was sitting in a train station. He realized as they pulled in that no one in the train could reach the end. Every passenger was at some distance from the end point, and for some reason he realized this is what they are doing for DNA. DNA cannot completely replicate itself all the way to the ends, so the telomeres shorten every time a cell divides. The crucial middle DNA info is preserved, but the telomere ends become shorter after each mitosis. (I learned from Park telomeres are not at the ends of DNA, but at the ends of chromosomes. So there are what, 23 or 26 pairs in humans?)

I have browsed the studies that certain things, e.g. taking multivitamins, reduce the shortening by something like 5%. The Jap study on intra-cellular vitamin C, was more dramatic - 50% etc.

But of course the interesting prospect is lengthening the fuse, per your analogy, and that is what telomerase does.

If things like homecysteine accelerate the shortening, then in Park's view, this substance, and oxidants in general, contribute to aging. But I would refer readers to the Pauling/Rath unified theory. The scientist most responsible for studying homocystein (kilmer mccully mabye) showed that vitamin C reduces homecystein levels.

Here’s just one example where they look at leukocyte telomere’s .
If you search [Homocysteine and Telomere’s] you’ll find a whole lot more research that has been done on it. However Homocysteine can be lowered by the use of supplements which are not profitable to the drug companies so interest in it is scant at best. However you’ll learn their roles in a lot of problems that harm humans. Interesting subject!


http://www.twinsuk.ac.uk/wp-content/upl ... s.2008.pdf

Thank you. At this point I am looking for alternative "telomerase activators" that don't cost $25,000 per year

[ofonorow]

Copied this johnwen from How to Take Vitamin C topic

Sorry Xor2 Had to throw this in!

OWEN said: Hoping to be able to afford TA65 soon

On the TA-65 bottles that I have been using, it clearly states as the sole ingredient:

"Astragalus Root Extract (TA65MD) 8mg"

The bottle does NOT state what that 8 mg is, and "Astragalus Root Extract" can mean anything extracted from the astragalus root...

The certified lab test showed what I stated earlier which is 5.44mg Cycloastragenol and .27 mg Astragaloside IV (lastly Astragenol at <.01mg). You can believe a lab test or a product lable with no "details" as to what comprises the 8mg, it is you choice. It seems good enough information for me to test out the Cycloastragenol.

Did a little snooping and came across this forum post on some anti ageing thingy. Turns out that expensive TA-65 stuff is the same as these products which are a bit much cheaper.


Push the DISCOUNT button for the good price!!
http://crackaging.com/cycloastragenol.php

http://crackaging.com/astragaloside-IV.php

WIKI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TA-65

OH NO! HMMMMM!

http://owndoc.com/anti-aging/ta65-revge ... complaint/

http://www.nature.com/news/lawsuit-chal ... ms-1.11090

First thanks for the links. On a leap of faith I ordered both Cracking Aging products. (I also ordered the "Product B" by Isagenix from Amazon - that is a competitor. YOu can search for the Bill Andrews lectures on youtube.)

Also, thx for those negative articles - something like that posted at Life Extension - I have similar concerns whether the dosages in these products are high enough to really have any effect, etc. Disappointed that so far they haven't been able to show life span longevity increases in animal studies, etc.

On the other hand, there is this from page 172 in Ed Park's book - basically the entire book leads up to this case...And a plea for a clinical study of TA65 for this kind of brain cancer

BRAIN CANCER CURED BY THE ANTI-PLACEBO EFFECT?

Mr. Lee (not his real name) is a 67 year-old man without brain cancer. That bears mentioning because at age 62, he had a high grade oligodendroglioma that was encompassing half his brain.

Having already lived through my father's horrible decline (from brain cancer) on standard treatment, I was eager to help my friend's father by suggesting he try TA-65. I had recently heard about Walt, whose wife's brain cancer disappeared after only one month of taking the telomerase activator, despite having failed all other therapies. For more info on brain cancer, please see Podcast 20 on You Tube.

Because it was so extensive, Mr. Lee's tumor was inoperable and he received whole brain radiation, followed by oral chemotherapy with Temodar(r), a standard treatment that causes DNA damage in all cells. This was done with the hopes that rapidly reproducing cells will be more damaged than friendly ones. Unfortunately, the brain tumor continued to grow while he was on Temodar.

Me Lee then took Avastin(r), an experimental antibody that blocks new blood vessel formation, despite still not being FDA approved for this indication at the time of this writing in mid-2013. The tumor continued to grow on Avastin.

The doctors added Carboplatin, another DNA-mutating chemotherapy agent, and the tumor growth slowed briefly but it soon resumed again. This prompted the resumption of Temodar even though the tumor had previously grown while taking it. Doctors don't like sitting back and doing nothing and they don't trust the body to rid itself of the disease.

My friend and I, against the wishes of all his family members, finally persuaded Mr. Lee to try TA-65 in February of 2011, he took it for a year.

Immediately after starting the TA, he called to complain about a side effect: allergies. He was livid that the March pollen was making him sneeze and causing congestion. It seems that for the previous three years, his lifelong allergies were gone, probably due to the immune suppression from cancer and chemotherapy.

I explained that this was probably a good sign that meant his immune system was recovering. But he remained upset about sneezing and having to buy Claritin(r) and tissues.

For whatever reason, two years after taking TA-65 and six years after being diagnosed with inoperable brain cancer that had grown to cover half his brain despite all the best medicines insurance money could buy, there is no trace of his brain cancer on MRI.

[/quote]

[Johnwen]

In regards to Vitamin C and homocysteine. We know Vitamin C is a anti oxidant. The amino acid L-Homocysteine is a pro oxidant that can do damage. The dosing with V-C blunts this action and prevents damage to susceptible cells. It does not reduce it’s volume it only prevents the damage it can do. This is why it’s advisable in trying to reduce it’s volume to take sufficient doses of V-C for it‘s Anti-Oxidant properties!!

On Homocysteine (link below);
In the wiki Big pharma has it’s hands in there and I have found some misleading info. However the basic idea is there and it’s conversion to L-methionine and L-cysteine are spelled out but what is noticeable is supplements that are the catalyst for these conversions are not mentioned, only B12. The catalyst that are needed are B12, Folate and B6. If proper amounts are present Hcy (homocysteine) will be converted to L-methionine (link below). Which is converted to SAM-e (Note: wiki conveniently left off the -e and only printed SAM as not to promote the supplement SAM-e) which is the abbreviation for S-adenosylmethionine (link below).

If only B12 is present it will convert to L-cysteine and depending on the levels will either go back to HCY or will produce Glutathione (GSH) or N-actyl-cysteine (NAC). If the body is low on any of these catalyst’s it will not be converted and be circulated thru the body or expelled. Which is when it can do it’s dirty work!

Anyone who is familiar with Vitamins and supplements will plainly see that just about everything mentioned here is available at your local supplement supplier. Which is why the Drug companies have spent no time in dispelling the benefits of trying to control something that is capable doing damage to the body. They can’t profit from it plain and $imple!

In the body higher levels of HCY can, oxidize cholesterol which is the food for our cells and makes it rancid! Even our cells don‘t like rotten food!, breakdown endothelial cells, disrupted nerve actions, cause premature cellular apoptosis, breakdown muscle tissue and place the body in oxidative stress.

At normal levels it aides in natural muscle breakdown and rebuilding, carries oxygen to distant cells and helps cleanse the body of cells that have reached their end of the line, and takes out foreign or wayward cells.

So!!! No !!! the fire is not always lit only when the proper elements are missing does it become a fire that burns the fuse thru higher then normal levels.

Owen; You do realize that the author of that book you are reading has a very heavy hand in the $ale of TA65. So it should be read like you read a sales pamphlet for a New Car, with a grain of Salt, as the saying goes.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homocysteine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methionine

http://www.nutritional-supplement-educa ... ation.html

[ofonorow]

Thanks for the information on homocysteine and the interesting connection with SAM-e. I have followed Pauling's advice of "one or two Super-B Complex tablets daily" (HTLLAFB) so I get extra B12, folate, etc. But I will consider adding Sam-e.

And yes I know that Ed Park has a financial stake in TA-65. He freely admits it. He was the FIRST M.D. outside of TA Sciences to offer it, and he was so enamored with the company that he bet everything ($10 million) and lost it all on either stock or options of Geron Corp.

To me that is irrelevant to the basic issue of whether life can be extended past the biblical 120 year human limit (a limit to our maximum life span that current science happens to agree with.)

Re:

In the body higher levels of HCY can, oxidize cholesterol which is the food for our cells and makes it rancid! Even our cells don‘t like rotten food!, breakdown endothelial cells, disrupted nerve actions, cause premature cellular apoptosis, breakdown muscle tissue and place the body in oxidative stress.

Message: Take Antioxidants.

But I wonder what defines "premature" cellular apoptosis? I was watching a Oil of Ole Regeneris commercial last night - promising to "rejuvenate" skin cells on the face. Before, i would think, okay give these aging cells vitamins, antioxidants, coq10, etc.

Now, I see that if the Ed Park Stem Cell theory is correct, the way to rejuvenate the face is counter-intuitive. It would be to KILL (causes apoptosis) of the facial skin cells! That is the way to get new cells, not try to preserve the aging cells.

At normal levels it aides in natural muscle breakdown and rebuilding, carries oxygen to distant cells and helps cleanse the body of cells that have reached their end of the line, and takes out foreign or wayward cells.

So!!! No !!! the fire is not always lit only when the proper elements are missing does it become a fire that burns the fuse thru higher then normal levels.

Back to the basics. The fuse is ALWAYS burning. You are talking about the rate. EVERY TIME A CELL DIVIDES IT'S TELOMERES SHORTEN, apparently because it is not possible to correctly copy the entire DNA strand from end to end. Natural Shortening of telomeres is a function of cell division.

Telomerase can increase the length of these telomere base pairs, and the gene needed is turned on in stem cells, but not ordinary mortal somatic cells.

Apparently lobsters have the gene/telomerase activated in ALL cells (maybe that's why they taste so good as apparently do some sea turtles and tortoises.

Owen; You do realize that the author of that book you are reading has a very heavy hand in the $ale of TA65. So it should be read like you read a sales pamphlet for a New Car, with a grain of Salt, as the saying goes.

And you do realize that those negative press articles you found are necessary to desensitize the public if the plan is to try and outlaw the sale of these substances (or turn them into drugs.) I still say there is an enormous amount of compact knowledge in the Park book. Maybe he raises more questions than answers, but although the Harvard lab experiments with animals did not show an increase in life span, (they were not looking for it), it did have a result similar to the Bruce Ames experiments with Carnitine and Alpha Lipoic Acid - making old rats younger. See Below.

Edit
References

1.Jaskelioff M, Muller FL, Paik JH, et al. Telomerase reactivation reverses tissue degeneration in aged telomerase-deficient mice. Nature. 2011 Jan 6;469(7328):102-6.

There is evidence that fish oil,4 vitamin D,5 carnosine,6-8 multivitamins,9 and healthy lifestyle choices10 may slow the rate of telomere shortening. This helps explain why people who take care of themselves and use the proper supplements enjoy such profound health benefits.2,11,12

What had not been proven, until now, is what happens if telomere length is substantially restored in already severely degenerated aged organisms.1

In the Nature study, prematurely aged mice developed degenerative problems such as shrinkage of organs, inability to produce sperm, and failure of their brains to produce new neurons or to maintain the structural integrity of the myelin sheath that protects existing neurons.1

As these degenerated mice neared death, researchers induced the re-activation of the enzyme telomerase. In response to telomerase re-activation, the telomeres at the end of their chromosomes lengthened.1

After only 30 days, there was a reversal of the degenerative changes in every system the researchers tested. The brains of the treated mice not only started growing new neurons, but began to thicken the protective myelin sheath surrounding existing neurons. As one of the researchers was quoted, they were able to “reverse neurodegeneration.” 1

The treated mice produced new viable sperm, their spleen atrophy and intestinal damage were reversed, and even their sense of smell was restored (indicating restored olfactory function in their brains).1

These mice initially were on the verge of dying, but went on to live a typical life span that was longer and healthier than could ever have been imagined considering the degenerative condition they were in at the beginning of the study. In humans, this would be like restoring the health and vigor of a sickly 80-year-old to that of a young adult!

Other studies (TA65)

Cells. 2013 Jan 14;2(1):57-66. doi: 10.3390/cells2010057.
Functional assessment of pharmacological telomerase activators in human T cells.
Molgora B1, Bateman R2, Sweeney G3, Finger D4, Dimler T5, Effros RB6, Valenzuela HF7.
Author information
Abstract

Telomeres are structures at the ends of chromosomes that shorten during cell division and eventually signal an irreversible state of growth arrest known as cellular senescence. To delay this cellular aging, human T cells, which are critical in the immune control over infections and cancer, activate the enzyme telomerase, which binds and extends the telomeres. Several different extracts from the Astragalus membranaceus root have been documented to activate telomerase activity in human T cells. The objective of this research was to compare two extracts from Astragalus membranaceus, TA-65 and HTA, for their effects on both telomerase and proliferative activity of human CD4 and CD8 T cells. Our results demonstrate that, TA-65 increased telomerase activity significantly (1.3 to 3.3-fold relative to controls) in T cell cultures from six donors tested, whereas HTA only increased telomerase levels in two out of six donors. We also demonstrate that TA-65 activates telomerase by a MAPK- specific pathway. Finally, we determine that during a three-day culture period, only the T cells treated with the TA-65 extract showed a statistically significant increase in proliferative activity. Our results underscore the importance of comparing multiple telomerase activators within the same experiment, and of including functional assays in addition to measuring telomerase activity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=molgora+TA-65
1.

[b]A natural product telomerase activator as part of a health maintenance program: metabolic and cardiovascular response.

Harley CB, Liu W, Flom PL, Raffaele JM.

Rejuvenation Res. 2013 Oct;16(5):386-95. doi: 10.1089/rej.2013.1430.

PMID:
23808324
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related citations
Select item 214264832.

The telomerase activator TA-65 elongates short telomeres and increases health span of adult/old mice without increasing cancer incidence.

Bernardes de Jesus B, Schneeberger K, Vera E, Tejera A, Harley CB, Blasco MA.

Aging Cell. 2011 Aug;10(4):604-21. doi: 10.1111/j.1474-9726.2011.00700.x. Epub 2011 Apr 14.
Abstract

Here, we show that a small-molecule activator of telomerase (TA-65) purified from the root of Astragalus membranaceus is capable of increasing average telomere length and decreasing the percentage of critically short telomeres and of DNA damage in haploinsufficient mouse embryonic fibroblasts (MEFs) that harbor critically short telomeres and a single copy of the telomerase RNA Terc gene (G3 Terc(+/-) MEFs). Importantly, TA-65 does not cause telomere elongation or rescue DNA damage in similarly treated telomerase-deficient G3 Terc(-/-) littermate MEFs. These results indicate that TA-65 treatment results in telomerase-dependent elongation of short telomeres and rescue of associated DNA damage, thus demonstrating that TA-65 mechanism of action is through the telomerase pathway. In addition, we demonstrate that TA-65 is capable of increasing mouse telomerase reverse transcriptase levels in some mouse tissues and elongating critically short telomeres when supplemented as part of a standard diet in mice. Finally, TA-65 dietary supplementation in female mice leads to an improvement of certain health-span indicators including glucose tolerance, osteoporosis and skin fitness, without significantly increasing global cancer incidence.

© 2011 The Authors. Aging Cell © 2011 Blackwell Publishing Ltd/Anatomical Society of Great Britain and Ireland.

PMID:
21426483
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Free PMC Article

Related citations
Select item 208223693.

A natural product telomerase activator as part of a health maintenance program.

Harley CB, Liu W, Blasco M, Vera E, Andrews WH, Briggs LA, Raffaele JM.

Rejuvenation Res. 2011 Feb;14(1):45-56. doi: 10.1089/rej.2010.1085. Epub 2010 Sep 7.

PMID:
20822369
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Free PMC Article

Related citations

A novel telomerase activator suppresses lung damage in a murine model of idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis.

Le Saux CJ, Davy P, Brampton C, Ahuja SS, Fauce S, Shivshankar P, Nguyen H, Ramaseshan M, Tressler R, Pirot Z, Harley CB, Allsopp R.

PLoS One. 2013;8(3):e58423. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0058423. Epub 2013 Mar 14.

PMID:
23516479
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Free PMC Article

Related citations
Select item 189811632.

Telomerase-based pharmacologic enhancement of antiviral function of human CD8+ T lymphocytes.

Fauce SR, Jamieson BD, Chin AC, Mitsuyasu RT, Parish ST, Ng HL, Kitchen CM, Yang OO, Harley CB, Effros RB.

J Immunol. 2008 Nov 15;181(10):7400-6.

PMID:
18981163
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Free PMC Article

Related citations
Select item 182220633.

Reduced telomerase activity in human T lymphocytes exposed to cortisol.

Choi J, Fauce SR, Effros RB.

Brain Behav Immun. 2008 May;22(4):600-5. doi: 10.1016/j.bbi.2007.12.004. Epub 2008 Jan 25.

PMID:
18222063
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Free PMC Article

Related citations


[/b].

[Johnwen]

The first thing I noticed when reading these studies and more is that there all done in vivo and in vitro and none have been done or show how they actually metabolize in the human body or if they in fact make it thru the digestive process. They have feed them to mice but are very vague as to the dosing amounts used to see the kind of results reported. Which would leave the question, “Would a person have to consume a inordinate amount of this to see the same results seen in the murine experiments or not?”
Another thing I noticed is most are related back to Genro scientist’s and kind of revolve around TA65.
Now don’t get me wrong I’m not against this in anyway but at this point in time I would like to see a controlled human testing before I would agree that they hit the nail on the head. I also wouldn’t spend any money buying these products especially at the prices their asking. To be a guinea pig with the hopes of it working for me! Even most Drug companies pay their participants well for their participation in human studies.
It became apparent to me that it seems these people want to do the opposite. Ie, you pay them a good chunk of change to see if their product will cure you or kill you!!! Could this be the way Big Pharma is heading for???
Anyway! Till I see any positive human testing. I still believe keeping the levels of homocysteine in the 5-6 range would prevent a lot of damage from being done at the cellular level and above. If this regeneration of the telomeres does prove out, I can see a lot of resistance from the drug companies because a lot of the drugs out there deal with the symptoms of damage done at a cellular level. Finding something that would keep these cells from going haywire would probably be almost like a cure and that C word is not in Pharma’s business plan.
Since you already invested in the base element of this expensive experiment. I for one would be interested in how it works for you and hope you see positive results. I think you been thru enough and have paid your tides to the health care system.

In Owens current and my previous post. I thought I said that!

Owen said: Message: Take Antioxidants.

Johnwen said: It does not reduce it’s volume it only prevents the damage it can do. This is why it’s advisable in trying to reduce it’s volume to take sufficient doses of V-C for it‘s Anti-Oxidant properties!!

On another subject you brought up about skin creams. I’m only going to try to brief through this because it’s a whole subject upon itself but were looking at cell apoptosis which comes into play here also.
In a person in their late teens through their mid 30’s exfoliating skin care works great. However after those ages I lean in the same direction as your author of the book. That is the skin needs to fortified and protected from damage. Here our V-C works wonders in the protection department but the cells have to be fortified! With what else, that nasty ever bad cholesterol. But just smearing it on your skin isn’t going to do to much it needs a vehicle to be taken into the layers and reinforce the bond of the cells. What’s that saying “There’s an App for that!”
It’s called Ceramides or AKA Lipid rafts. Their the good guys but there is bad guys also who don’t want them to do their job. Here’s a Link to wet your whistle!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1766198/

However there is a product out there that contains ceramides and circumvents going inside to deliver them to the upper layers of the skin. Here’s a Link!

http://www.cerave.com/our-products/mois ... zing-cream
For you youngens they have a renewing crème that exfoliates.
I’ve been using it for over a year and it works pretty good but you won’t see over night results with it. It has tighten up some large pores and that’s what I was looking for and yes I’m over 65!!

Here’s some more links so you can see what else the body does internally.
Remember it’s a cholesterol related and it has to be bad?? Right??

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2816304/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2924671/

https://smartech.gatech.edu/jspui/bitst ... 2_mast.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3166082/

[ofonorow]

Thanks as usual johnwen! First to the skin creme. We'd like to come out with a good one, and your help is invaluable. (Apparently the Product B people - TA65 competitor - have a skin creme.)

And just like you regarding telomere activation/TA-65, I would like to see studies of different skin cremes on people of different ages, etc.

And to Ed Park's credit, he agrees with you and is basically asking for the controlled studies. Studies in humans that you would like to see (and so would I). In lieu of this happening any time soon (e.g., when will the first vitamin C and lysine study for heart disease be published!?) he created hours and hours of youtube seminars with patients taking TA-65. He claims that if one person mentioned some benefit, he took note but ignored. If two mentioned the same thing, he began to get interested, and when 3 people reported the same thing he created an hour long webinar. I haven't had the time or inclination to watch at this point.

And I like you wonder about TA dosage, and I would like to have a beginning telomere measurement before starting... Or something equivalent... But apparently they aint cheap either. (Maybe Life Extension will come through.)

While many of the improvements in Park's anecdotes are similar to what people taking vitamin C, or melatonin experience, there are a few that I wouldn't mind seeing and I think my wife and I should be able to tell if something is happening with the TA-65 "knock offs." (1/3 the price, thank you sir!)

One example is a report of women menstruating again after menopause. From reading John Lee and others, this means that the woman's glands are producing more Estrogens. (That may be a general benefit - increased glandular production of our own hormones. So in my case, I am wondering if I will be able to wean myself off the hydrocortisone - if my adrenal glands become "rejuvenated." Wouldn't prove anything, and I guess I would have to consider the ongoing cost versus hydrocortisone, but it would support Park's ideas of general body rejuvenation.

And the 2011 study in Nature (after the 2009 Nobel Prize) is something! (I wasn't aware they used TA-65, did you read that?) One of my goals would be to find a lab willing to rerun Ames experiments - and measure telomeres. If Carnitine/ALA can do the same job, then the cost can be substantially reduced.


added - Life Extensions response on not offering LTL blood tests.

Dear Owen Fonorow,

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

We apologize for any inconvenience due to us not offering a leukocyte telomere length blood test. The reason why we do not offer this type of test is because it is a DNA test. Tests of this nature are usually recommended by a physician to be done through a lab, not a supplement/information company.

Also, it is important to note that telomere tests can help to provide important information but they are not 100% definitive. The following link is to a study showing the relationship between human lifespan and telomere length:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21102320

SpectraCell Laboratories is an example of a lab that performs telomere testing. Here is the link to their website:

www.spectracell.com

To clarify, Mr. Bruce Ames research did not include carnitine and ALA. Rather, his research included lipoic acid and acetyl-L-carnitine for optimizing mitochondrial function. In fact, Life Extension did an interview with Mr. Ames in August of 2011. Here is a link to the article outlining our interview with him:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/2011/8/inte ... es/page-01

Please keep in mind that we follow all of the research breakthroughs on longevity as they are made. When research advances are made, we are always eager to share them with our customers.

If there is anything else that we can help you with, feel free to e-mail us at advisory@lef.org or call the advisor helpline at (800)226-2370; international customers dial 001-954-202-7660. We will be glad to assist you.

Thank you for choosing Life Extension.

[ofonorow]

Time to report. Product B arrived (touted by Bill Anderson on youtube) and perhaps the first ingredient listed is what turned me off, a whopping 33 mg of vitamin C!

But it did arrive. The agingcracking TA-65 knockoff that Johnwen found above - has not even sent me a "order received" or shipping info! (Ordered on Nov 6th) I purchased via paypal and have an inquiry (open case) now...

So back to Product B which I believe is the most expensive multi-vitamin supplement I have ever purchased!!!

The Product-B pitch on youtube is that they have a laboratory set up to test substances in culture for their effect on telomers or telomerase. They get some color indication & the deeper the color, the bigger the effect. Interestingly they claim that Product-B is constantly in flux, and that when they discover some new agent, they add it to the formula.

I will say the product bottle is very unique, new age and interesting. Tall enough to list the myriad of ingredients.. Something like life extension mix.. Did not see the a. root that TA-65 is derived from, but lots of others. I don't see how this could effect me as I am taking so much larger amounts of most of the ingredients listed in these capsules. However, since the other product doesn't seem likely to arrive soon, I'll have a little idea how much benefit this Product-B has versus the Ed Park list of anecdotal benefits.

Currentl pre-flight opinion is Thumbs Down on Product-B given its label of ingredients.