high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

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Frodo
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high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#1  Post by Frodo » Sun May 27, 2018 9:02 am

Owen
Thomas Levy says that it isn‘t recommended taking calcium supplements and high dose (according to Levy „optidose“) calcium. What do you think about supplementing calcium? I don‘t eat dairy and so I think, I could be deficient in calcium if I don‘t take supplements.

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#2  Post by Frodo » Sun May 27, 2018 10:06 am

Sorry there is a mistake in my question. It should read: ... calcium supplements and high dose (...) of vitamin C.

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Wed May 30, 2018 2:57 pm

Dr. Levy's well researched book DEATH BY CALCIUM reveals the surprising fact that mortality (death) increases as the levels of calcium in the blood increase. (Unlike vitamin K (which acts like a hormone to move calcium from soft tissue into bone) and Vitamin C. The higher levels of these vitamins in the blood, the longer you live (the lower the risk of mortality.)

Levy and others feel that you can get bioavailable calcium in foods, usually greens, that are enough to satisfy our bodies demand for calcium - especially at our ages. (Different situation for growing children). One argument is that Levy has discovered science that shows osteoporosis is "bone scurvy, a vitamin C defiency disease.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#4  Post by pamojja » Wed May 30, 2018 4:42 pm

Frodo wrote:I don‘t eat dairy and so I think, I could be deficient in calcium if I don‘t take supplements.


10 years ago when I started to supplement and test for deficiencies I still did eat dairy and even supplemented some (up to 900 mg/d), though for almost 3 of the first years my serum calcium always been below normal range. Only once serum 25(OH)D3 normalized to a higher range did serum calcium normalize somewhat too.

However, did develop a severe Mg deficiency, for which I'm supplementing until now up to 2.5 g/d of elemental Magnesium. Since that needed supplemental amount would be a hell lot of pills, I get part of it from a mineral water with 1g Magnesium per liter, which also contains 360 mg of calcium. Also the about 2 g of vitamin B5 I take gives an other 200 mg of calcium. But my serum calcium remained low normal.

Therefore I do agree with Levy that calcium should be restricted generally, but it also depends on the individual situation concerning balance of all electrolytes assessed with lab testing. Also hair tissue mineral analysis gives a good overview of all mass and trace minerals, as well as toxic metals. With the important detail that calcium gets excreted with hair, and therefore high levels in hair mostly mean low levels in serum (as it was in my case),

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#5  Post by Frodo » Thu May 31, 2018 2:47 am

Thanks for the informations. I didn‘t know the book „Death by Calcium“. I‘ll read it.

Because of the texts of Levy and Mercola I‘m insecure. I know. our ancestors have taken in 2 grams of calcium daily (according to Cordain and Eaton). I don‘t have that much. It‘s difficult to check if it‘s enough. Blood values of calcium are doubtful because of homeostasis.
And there are many other opinions and studies, of course... For example also by Dr. Rath, or this article by edubily (in german, but with quotes in english):
edubily.de/2017/01/calcium-der-energie-stoffwechsel-turbo-gegen-herzinfarkt/

Of course I take K2-MK7. And vitamin D (15.000 IU daily). And so on. A hell lot of pills too - like pamojja. And I measure parathormone and calcitonine. They are all OK.
I think without calcium supplements I have troubles with my muscles and legs.

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#6  Post by Frodo » Thu May 31, 2018 2:50 am

edubily.de/2017/01/calcium-der-energie-stoffwechsel-turbo-gegen-herzinfarkt/

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#7  Post by Frodo » Thu May 31, 2018 2:57 am


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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#8  Post by pamojja » Thu May 31, 2018 4:04 am

Frodo wrote:Thanks for the informations. I didn‘t know the book „Death by Calcium“. I‘ll read it.

Because of the texts of Levy and Mercola I‘m insecure. I know. our ancestors have taken in 2 grams of calcium daily (according to Cordain and Eaton). I don‘t have that much. It‘s difficult to check if it‘s enough. Blood values of calcium are doubtful because of homeostasis.
And there are many other opinions and studies, of course... For example also by Dr. Rath, or this article by edubily (in german, but with quotes in english):
edubily.de/2017/01/calcium-der-energie-stoffwechsel-turbo-gegen-herzinfarkt/

Of course I take K2-MK7. And vitamin D (15.000 IU daily). And so on. A hell lot of pills too - like pamojja. And I measure parathormone and calcitonine. They are all OK.
I think without calcium supplements I have troubles with my muscles and legs.


I think the big distinction in Levy's finding, that high levels of calcium are associated with higher mortality, still holds. While this article in german is only based on biochemical speculation, and not on any hard end-points.

Therefore calcium tested in serum does matter. Though the association of high calcium doesn't necessitates it's coming from diet or supplements only. Could be from any other metabolic error just as well. For example, too high 25(OH)D or/and too low vitamin K2 could just as well be causing higher serum calcium.

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#9  Post by pamojja » Thu May 31, 2018 4:18 am

Frodo wrote:It‘s difficult to check if it‘s enough. Blood values of calcium are doubtful because of homeostasis.


One interesting tidbit, magnesium serum levels too are considered completely inaccurate to assess deficiency. Normal range 0.66 - 1.07 mol/mol. However, in large epidemiological studies serum magnesium above 0,86 are conversely associated with a decrease of all-cause mortality by about 50%! Wouldn't at all be surprised if high serum Magnesium and low serum Calcium are associated too somehow.

However, for all practical purposes if one find one's serum calcium is high normal, always worthwhile to check if it indeed is caused by the most obvious, high dietary intake.

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#10  Post by Frodo » Thu May 31, 2018 5:58 am

pamojja wrote:
Frodo wrote:It‘s difficult to check if it‘s enough. Blood values of calcium are doubtful because of homeostasis.


One interesting tidbit, magnesium serum levels too are considered completely inaccurate to assess deficiency. Normal range 0.66 - 1.07 mol/mol. However, in large epidemiological studies serum magnesium above 0,86 are conversely associated with a decrease of all-cause mortality by about 50%! Wouldn't at all be surprised if high serum Magnesium and low serum Calcium are associated too somehow.

However, for all practical purposes if one find one's serum calcium is high normal, always worthwhile to check if it indeed is caused by the most obvious, high dietary intake.


Yes, they are associated. Parathormone value shows if the association is OK.

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#11  Post by pamojja » Thu May 31, 2018 6:13 am

Frodo wrote:
pamojja wrote:Wouldn't at all be surprised if high serum Magnesium and low serum Calcium are associated too somehow.


Yes, they are associated. Parathormone value shows if the association is OK.


Would you like to elaborate how Parathormone shows the association between calcium and magnesium is OK?

I had 3 times normal and once 7 years ago below normal Parathormone. While all the time severely deficient in Mg.

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#12  Post by Frodo » Thu May 31, 2018 10:22 am

pamojja wrote:
Frodo wrote:
pamojja wrote:Wouldn't at all be surprised if high serum Magnesium and low serum Calcium are associated too somehow.


Yes, they are associated. Parathormone value shows if the association is OK.


Would you like to elaborate how Parathormone shows the association between calcium and magnesium is OK?

I had 3 times normal and once 7 years ago below normal Parathormone. While all the time severely deficient in Mg.


I‘m on vacation. And all my books are at home. But I remember: In chronic magnesium deficiency parathormone secretion from the parathyroids falls into the basement.
However, if the parathormone is missing, an acute calcium defiency develops. Because the hormone would always fill up the blood level with calcium from the bones in time if no calcium is eaten or drunk.

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#13  Post by Frodo » Thu May 31, 2018 1:54 pm

I found an interesting article by german Dr. Ulrich Strunz. Unfortunately only in german. I‘ll translate at least the headlines tomorrow.

https://www.strunz.com/de/news/kalzium- ... arkt.html/

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#14  Post by pamojja » Thu May 31, 2018 2:31 pm

Frodo wrote:I found an interesting article by german Dr. Ulrich Strunz. Unfortunately only in german. I‘ll translate at least the headlines tomorrow.

https://www.strunz.com/de/news/kalzium- ... arkt.html/


Only talks about heart attack-risks. Not higher mortality.

But I remember: In chronic magnesium deficiency parathormone secretion from the parathyroids falls into the basement.


If only it would have in my case..

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Re: high dose vitamin c and calcium supplements

Post Number:#15  Post by Frodo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:44 am

Here is the summary of the article by Dr. Strunz (I was his patient for 5 years):

Dr. Strunz refers to reports in German newspapers that calcium causes heart attacks.
He says it‘s always the same. Of course there is no study. But only a subsequent meta analysis, after that, with calcium 0,39 or 0,28 % more participants suffered heart attack.
Funny: The authors of the study report that much calcium in food reduces heart attacks and steokes by 30-40%.
So is it due to calcium as a tablet?
Probably not. The womens health initiative proves the opposite. Taking calcium tablets (even) with vitamin D doesn‘t increase the risk of heart attack and stroke.
But newspaper readers have learned that calcium causes heart attacks.


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