Moderator: ofonorow
w6nrw wrote:I don't mean instead of, but in addition to human testing. Animal testing
can get relatively quick results. Also diet and life style can be carefully controlled, not
so with humans. To get good human tests we would need a Hitlerian regime. Don't
think that is going to happen any time soon.
As to being 'believable', I don't think that is possible by most no matter what is done.
There is already a lot of excellent info out there that is simply ignored or not believed.
a) Intima-media thickness ultrasound may be a safe, informative and relatively inexpensive test that we could employ at the beginning and end of the study.
I agree that the issue before us is what happens in human beings who don't produce ascorbate. And I like the way this is going, and want to look into "ejection fraction" measurements. We need the least expensive, most effective (preferably non-invasive) measurements possible.
Lets get inventive. What are inexpensive measurements?
Blood Pressure
Heart Rate (resting, after exertion)
Distance walking without pain
Climbing stairs without pain
Skin color/skin tone
Hours asleep
Can anybody think of other low-cost (no-cost) measurements?
Seymore Spectacles wrote:
Blood Pressure
Heart Rate (resting, after exertion)
Distance walking without pain
Climbing stairs without pain
Skin color/skin tone
Hours asleep
- Frequency and severity of angina attacks?
- Degree of heaviness that's felt in the legs over time - using a rating scale.
- Improvements in memory tests could help provide evidence of improved circulation - specifically to the brain.
- Home vision tests (using a rating scale) and photographs of the eyes may exhibit improvements in ocular circulation (reduction in redness and capillary fragility).
- Improvement in sexual function - particularly in our male participants.
- Photographs and measurements of participants legs could provide evidence of increased circulation (less swelling, improvement in the appearance of varicose veins, etc.).
- Photographs of gums and teeth for obvious reasons.
- Measurement, with pictures perhaps, that documents the rate of wound healing (bruises specifically). Many older people bruise easily and the C and lysine therapy could possibly help this.
- Overall energy levels. Again, the better the circulation, the better the oxygen and nutrient transport and likely an improvement in energy levels. This may, in part, be covered by your suggestion for "hours asleep".
- A rating scale assessment of arthritic symptoms. Since both C and lysine should help promote collagen production, we may very well find a minor improvement or stabilization of symptoms and structural support.
I'll stop there for now. Hopefully there's something worthwhile in these suggestions.
ofonorow wrote: What is an indicator of good circulation (or poor circulation?)
How about temperature of the extremeties? Or even body temperature?
Owen,
Mr. (so and so) called me and would like to order 6 (six) more jars of Cardio-C. By the way, he reports increased circulation, less fatigue and blood pressure benefits since being on two jars a month. Chalk up another one for C!
Take care.
p.s.
He said his color is better and his hands and feet are warmer.
The most long-standing, large-scale and careful epidemiological study of cardiovascular disease is the Framingham Heart Study, begun in the city of Framingham, Massachusetts in 1948. Nearly half of the original participants have now died, and their deaths have been diagnosed with care (2). The Framingham definition of "sudden death" is a death that occurs within one hour of the onset of symptoms, and this definition is the most commonly used among medical researchers. Sudden cardiac deaths (SCDs) accounted for 11% of Framingham deaths, with another 7% classified as "possible" SCDs. ("Possible" cardiac deaths are those which have not been witnessed, or those for which the deceased was discovered dead in bed. These statistics are supported by analysis of 1983 death certificates for the entire state of Massachusetts (despite the fact of diagnosis being less scrupulous)(3). A study based on data compiled from both Framingham and civil servants in Albany, New York (4) demonstrated that for men in the 45-75 age range, 60% of SCDs occurred in men with no prior evidence of coronary artery disease. In another study, 32% of deaths among men in the 20-64 age range was attributed to SCD, with 25% showing no prior recognized symptoms of heart disease (5).
A detailed pathological study was made of 130 random subjects who died suddenly in the Glasgow, Scotland area (6). 92 of these (70%) sudden deaths were due to ischemic heart disease, 13 (10%) were due to overdose, 8 (6%) were due to unknown causes and 6 were (4.6%) were due to non-ischemic cardiovascular disease. Only two cases (1.5%) were due to cerebrovascular disease (stroke). All of the subjects deemed to have died from ischemic heart disease in the Glasgow Study showed a loss of more than 75% of cross sectional area in one or more coronary arteries (arteries supplying the heart).
Other symptoms you may have either alone or along with chest pain include:
* Shortness of breath
* Cough
* Lightheadedness - dizziness
* Fainting
* Nausea or vomiting
* Sweating, which may be profuse
* Feeling of "impending doom"
* Anxiety
Signs and tests:
During a physical examination, the doctor will usually note a rapid pulse. Blood pressure may be normal, high, or low. While listening to the chest with a stethoscope, the doctor may hear crackles in the lungs, a heart murmur, or other abnormal sounds.
The following tests may reveal a heart attack and the extent of heart damage:
* Electrocardiogram (ECG) -- single or repeated over several hours
* Echocardiography
* Coronary angiography
* Nuclear ventriculography (MUGA or RNV)
Seymore Spectacles wrote:Owen,
What exactly do you mean by revisiting the technique used by Dr. Willis? Do you mean serial arteriography? If so, why? Do you believe it's more precise and/or cost effective than other measures that have come about since?
If we just measured Lp(a) levels ... how would that show that any reversal has taken place? Unless I'm mistaken, it won't prove, one way or another, what the environment is like in the arteries. And that, is the vital question, IMO.
Atherosclerosis is a serious threat to health. Its progression has been linked to increased risk of heart attack, stroke, atrial fibrillation and dementia, among other potentially fatal conditions. Since it may begin as early as childhood, and aging has been identified as the greatest risk factor for its development, it is vital to combat this arterial-dysfunction disease as early—and as aggressively—as possible. Nature has provided the means to protect ourselves from this insidious threat. By increasing our levels of the natural enzymatic antioxidant, superoxide dismutase (SOD), and by harnessing the potent polyphenol power of pomegranate, scientists have shown that it is now possible to help reverse the course of atherosclerosis—naturally.
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