Vitamin C Forum

Posted: **Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:07 pm**

I will give brief history of my father's disease, My father underwent angiogram on jan 2013 and being diagnosed with Ischemic heart disease(effort angina, adequate LV function), Angiographally CAD (Triple vessel disease, Right dominant system, Adequate LV function). I am not very clear of all these terms but informed by doctors his position was very dangerous to be treated and has to go bypass immediately next day after his angiogram taken, they also added that they donot know how far bypass will be helpful for him because his blood vessels are thin .
Doctors rushed us and we checked other 2 doctors they told us the same. Finally one well experienced doctor advised us not to go for bypass immediately because of his other conditions (He is a diabetic and having hypertension) and prescribed various medications.

Wanted to add his ER is 73%.

He is 65 years old. He has diabetes for last 10 years.
His kidney is functioning average but no major issues. Currently he is under following medication,

1) Bis Beta 5 mg (BISOPROLOL FUMARATE)
2) Prazopress XL 5 mg (Prazosin Hydrochloride)
3) WINBP 40 mg (Olmesartan Medoxomil)
4) DEPLATT CV 75 mg (Clopidogrel Bisulphate with Atrovastatin and aspirin)
5) Ativan 2mg (Lorazepam)
6) Harzulin SR 3 times a day (Gliclazide with metformin hydrochloride sustained release)
7) JALRA 50 mg (Vildagliptin)

ECOSPIRIN - 150 mg (Aspirin Gastro resistant)
9) stator 10 mg
10) ofloxacin IP 200 mg
11) Gabawin - 25 mg (Pregabatin & mecobalamin)

In parallel we thought of trying some alternate treatment. He underwent chelation therapy for a year, he felt better. But doctors are saying it was of no use and his heart is not doing any better.

I started him on Tower lab Heart tech 3 scoops daily as initial dose from this week (7 july 2015) and he is taking COQ10 300 gm, for last 2 years and Omega - 3 fish oil and B-complex.

I am worried about the medications he is currently under, any contraindications happen?

How can we wean him off from his medicine slowly and what needs to be monitored (blood sugar, hypertension) to track his improvement.

do you advice him to take anything in addition to Hearttech. I read about vitamin K but don't know how much to incorporate. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Finding lot of information about vitamin C in the Internet, I believe in those after seeing Andrew Saul videos (FOOD MATTERS) and read his articles on doctoryourself.com. Recently I came to know about Pauling Therapy from your website and happy to try that for my dad.

Thanks,
Anu

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:58 am**

Look at heartattackproof.com, a website created by Caldwell Esselstyn, a physician at the Cleveland Clinic. (The Cleveland Clinic is one of the best and most prestigious hospitals in the US and world.) He has several wonderful lectures on YouTube. The upshot is that if you eat a plant-based diet with no oil, you can make yourself heart-attack-proof in three weeks, the amount of time it takes for the endothelium to regrow. I emphasize that compliance must be 100%.

If your father has type 2 diabetes and hypertension, I am guessing he is overweight. (The three are very tightly linked.) Plant-based nutrition will help with that too. Let food be his medicine. Change his diet and save his life! Consider the alternatives: expensive, painful, disfiguring surgery with a long recovery period or eating delicious plant-based foods. If he changes his diet, he becomes the locus of control, not physicians and hospitals.

At the same time, begin the Pauling Therapy: as much Vitamin C as your father can stand (~ 20 grams a day?), i.e. to bowel tolerance, and lysine and proline too.

I am not a physician, but do have some hard-won experience in this. Bypass surgery is just about the most invasive, disfiguring thing possible. And the bypasses often fail. One rarely mentioned side effect is that over half the time, patients suffer neurological damage from being on a heart-lung bypass machine. In my own case, the physician, a Harvard Medical school graduate, strongly recommend bypass surgery for me after my heart attack. Thank God I ignored her advice and chose more stents. I had already suffered anoxic brain damage from my heart attack. So my cognition was affected, and I had to make one of the most important decisions of my life. Who knows if I would have recovered completely if I had had further neurological insult.

But I wish I knew about plant-based nutrition and the Pauling therapy before I chose more stents. I have embraced both now.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:20 am**

#89826 - Thank you for your input, he is not overweight but smoker, stopped smoking 10 years before. Plant based nutrition, hearing it for the first time, let me go through heartattackproof.com. His food habits are always clean, occasionally having white flour related stuff. Thanks again, appreciate your time.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:04 am**

89826 wrote:The upshot is that if you eat a plant-based diet with no oil, you can make yourself heart-attack-proof in three weeks, the amount of time it takes for the endothelium to regrow. I emphasize that compliance must be 100%

Just for balancing that perspective. I had been a vegetarian since age 10, hated anything oily or buttery, no fish, no eggs, no alcohol.

Fast forward at age 42 had a 80% stenosis at my abdominal aorta bifurcation diagnosed with the debilitating symptom of only being able to walk 3-400 meter without pain due to claudatio intermittens. Elimination of sugar, inclusion of eggs and fish in my diet and Pauling's Therapy improved my pain-free walking distance within 1 year to 1 hour, further elimination of grains or carbs in general, while increasing fats mostly from nuts, cold pressed olive oil or coconut oil 2 hours the second year. 6 years later I don't encounter claudatio intermittens symptoms anymore.

Everyone brings so many preconditions or co-factors that there isn't that valid ONE answer for everyone. Otherwise I would never suffered my condition as a life-long low-fat vegetarian, and reversed it by quitting that.

How can we wean him off from his medicine slowly and what needs to be monitored (blood sugar, hypertension) to track his improvement.

Blood sugar is the most easy accessible and one of the most important to track for a start: Testing fasting and 1 hr postprandial (ie. after a meal) was the reason for me to cut out any grains and replace it with fats, and which safed me from my pre-diabetes. Definitely get him started there.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:42 pm**

89826 wrote:Look at heartattackproof.com, a website created by Caldwell Esselstyn, a physician at the Cleveland Clinic. (The Cleveland Clinic is one of the best and most prestigious hospitals in the US and world.) He has several wonderful lectures on YouTube. The upshot is that if you eat a plant-based diet with no oil, you can make yourself heart-attack-proof in three weeks, the amount of time it takes for the endothelium to regrow. I emphasize that compliance must be 100%.

Im sorry but I have to question the actual knowledge of any doc who claims a plant based diet will make heart attack proof. Plant based diets clearly do not supply adequate B vitamins, especially B12 which is critical for nerve signal transmission among many other things and last time I checked it was the nerve signalling which causes the heart to beat. Sure, maybe initially things will improve but sooner or later without significant supplementation a plant based diet will lead to significant other health issues.

Posted: **Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:37 am**

Ex, afraid the science is clear, but difficult for many to embrace.

Posted: **Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:21 am**

89826 wrote:Ex, afraid the science is clear, but difficult for many to embrace.

Wasn't difficult for me to go vegetarian at all (Though it meant quite some fights with my parents at age 10). Even quit remaining eggs and fish early on because they weren't to my taste anymore.

The only difficulty is in embracing all these epidemiological studies, which are able to generate still to be proven thesis's only.
Even a RCT would mostly report the mean effect in a given study population only. Always with opposite out-liers due to varying bio-individuality.

"Doing the same over again and expecting different result" was Einsteins definition of insanity. And I would fall under this definition if I didn't quit being vegetarian after 32 years with such devastating results.

However, because having added back only diary, eggs and small fish - with only an occasional organically grass-fed meat - many would probably still consider it 'vegetarian'.

Eat real food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

Posted: **Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:49 am**

anut.saran wrote:I will give brief history of my father's disease, My father underwent angiogram on jan 2013 and being diagnosed with Ischemic heart disease(effort angina, adequate LV function), Angiographally CAD (Triple vessel disease, Right dominant system, Adequate LV function). I am not very clear of all these terms but informed by doctors his position was very dangerous to be treated and has to go bypass immediately next day after his angiogram taken, they also added that they donot know how far bypass will be helpful for him because his blood vessels are thin .
Doctors rushed us and we checked other 2 doctors they told us the same. Finally one well experienced doctor advised us not to go for bypass immediately because of his other conditions (He is a diabetic and having hypertension) and prescribed various medications.

To recap, diagnosed 2.5 years ago, but has so far avoided any operation (even angioplasty) because of the danger. Is that correct?

Wanted to add his ER is 73%.

He is 65 years old. He has diabetes for last 10 years.
His kidney is functioning average but no major issues. Currently he is under following medication,

1) Bis Beta 5 mg (BISOPROLOL FUMARATE)
2) Prazopress XL 5 mg (Prazosin Hydrochloride)
3) WINBP 40 mg (Olmesartan Medoxomil)
4) DEPLATT CV 75 mg (Clopidogrel Bisulphate with Atrovastatin and aspirin)
5) Ativan 2mg (Lorazepam)
6) Harzulin SR 3 times a day (Gliclazide with metformin hydrochloride sustained release)
7) JALRA 50 mg (Vildagliptin)
ECOSPIRIN - 150 mg (Aspirin Gastro resistant)
9) stator 10 mg
10) ofloxacin IP 200 mg
11) Gabawin - 25 mg (Pregabatin & mecobalamin)

In parallel we thought of trying some alternate treatment. He underwent chelation therapy for a year, he felt better. But doctors are saying it was of no use and his heart is not doing any better.

I started him on Tower lab Heart tech 3 scoops daily as initial dose from this week (7 july 2015) and he is taking COQ10 300 gm, for last 2 years and Omega - 3 fish oil and B-complex.

I am worried about the medications he is currently under, any contraindications happen?

I like the Heart Technology dosage.

I cannot speak to the drugs, however, in our now almost 20-year experience, the drugs people were taking did not seem to matter regarding the efficacy of Pauling's protocol. For example, this is an amazing story of Gary Rehs http://www.internetwks.com/pauling/rehs.html please note the drugs he was on, and was able to wean. (Although if "stator" is a statin cholesterol drug, then I will say that a cholesterol-lowering drug it is exactly the wrong thing for "thin veins". In my opinion, his body needs to be able to strengthen the walls of his arteries and veins, and cholesterol (Lp(a)) is a good building material for patching.

The other issue is diabetes. What are his blood glucose numbers? While he is beginning the Pauling therapy, (I like 3 scoops of Heart Tech) you should begin reading http://healingmatters.com/ and I would start with this article: http://healingmatters.com/deception.htm. The goal is to eliminate Type II diabetes and people tell me that by following Thomas Smith's protocol, they are able to lower their blood sugar. (In a nut shell, diabetes is a cell membrane disturbance that "clogs" the insulin-mediated pathway from the blood into cells - caused by "bad" lipids (e.g. trans fats). Once you make your dad's cell membranes happy (the repair process is ongoing) they will be able to absorb more glucose.

So if he follows both the Pauling and Smith protocols, I predict your father will start doing better, despite the drugs. (Maybe johnwen will be able to make suggestions about weaning the drugs).

Now from 3 scoops of Heart Technology several bases are covered, including lysine and proline. If he doesn't have any gas or diarrhea, that may mean he could require more vitamin C, to help guarantee the outcome. I would think more as sodium ascorbate powder or True-liposomal would be a wise addition, at least in the beginning.

How can we wean him off from his medicine slowly and what needs to be monitored (blood sugar, hypertension) to track his improvement.

do you advice him to take anything in addition to Hearttech. I read about vitamin K but don't know how much to incorporate. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Finding lot of information about vitamin C in the Internet, I believe in those after seeing Andrew Saul videos (FOOD MATTERS) and read his articles on doctoryourself.com. Recently I came to know about Pauling Therapy from your website and happy to try that for my dad.

Thanks,
Anu

Vitamin K is an excellent addition - I think you are on the right track, especially if you follow the Smith protocol and restrict trans fats.

Posted: **Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:06 am**

89826 wrote:Ex, afraid the science is clear, but difficult for many to embrace.

I could say the same to you.

Posted: **Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:54 am**

Owen : Thanks for the detailed reply, appreciate all your time. Your words are very encouraging and supporting.

To recap, diagnosed 2.5 years ago, but has so far avoided any operation (even angioplasty) because of the danger. Is that correct?

You are right, he didn't undergo any surgery for that disease so far with God's grace, taking lot of medications though. His dosage has been increased from Hearttech 3 scoops to 4 scoops now. Will try to add more vitamin C to his regime. His sugar level was around - 90 (fasting sugar) & 220 (after 1.30 hrs meal) and it becomes normal for last 1 month with regular 20 mins walking and good diet. Sometimes it goes low too.(not sure because of medication)

do you think stopping stator 10 mg will have any side effects?

Will definitely go through the links u gave. I firmly believe this PT is going to work for my dad after going through lot of testimonials.

Your outstanding service to this PT is greatly appreciated, Many Thanks again. Will update frequently on his health improvement.

Waiting for Johnwen to comment about these medications and how to get rid of those slowly

exitium, pamojja, 89826 : Everyone's input is greatly appreciated and thanks for all your time.

Where could I find smith protocol details, couldn't find any on internet search.

Posted: **Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:38 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:20 am**

#Johnwen : It surely helps, Thanks a lot for your time and I appreciate your help.
you are right, I meant Ejection Fraction only.
My dad stopped taking his stator from yesterday. Will keep updating this forum about his improvements. Thanks again for all your help.

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:18 pm**

My dad is feeling good after start taking Hearttech, his sugar level got stabilized and reduced his sugar medication to 1 tablet per day . He is still taking medication for BP, but his blood pressure raised after taking Hearttech, it is 190/80 now, sometimes go like 210/100 but he is feeling completely alright, no symptoms of high BP, is this something I need to worry about? Wat else we need to add to his regimen to control that, please advice.

Can someone reply to this, appreciate all your help in this, I'm worried a lot.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:46 am**

When is the blood pressure measured ("after Heart Tech")?

High blood pressure is normal in response to stress (ancient fight or flight response) and only abnormal if it remains high and doesn't lower.

Glad that he seems to be responding and feeling good. Please keep us informed.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:36 am**

Thanks owen for your response, I really appreciate your time and you are always of great help.

I measured his blood pressure after 15 days of taking Hearttech 4 scoops daily. it was ranging between 190/80 to 210/100, not lowering below that, he is taking his regular medicines and I added 400 mg magnesium(as part of multi vitamin/mineral) from yesterday, hopefully this should lower the BP as mentioned in several discussion. Do you suggest anything else to lower his BP.

Planning to add super K with advanced K2 complex from LEF as you suggested. Do you think adding k2 will do good for his condition with the medications taken, please advice. Thanks.

Vitamin C Forum

Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help

Re: Triple vessel disease - Need your help