Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

[kohlrabicroce]

[Johnwen]

[kohlrabicroce]

[ofonorow]

We are making it complicated. I disagree with the idea that taking cortisol causes the cycle you describe, and from personal experience, believe it is probably the opposite! When I take my now 4 mg of cortisol I feel good. Well. Healthy. I take only 2 mg and soon my fingers/knuckles swell, my toes hurt, muscles ache.

I am mainly concerned with inflammation, the role of cortisol to control inflammation.

The body has an absolute daily requirement for cortisol which the adrenals produce.

I cannot explain why when my difficulties first began (conditions exactly as described in the Jefferies SAFE USES OF CORTISOL, by the way. Knowledge unknown to today's experts. I stumped how many, 10, 15 specialists?) Anyway, when I was in the hospital - I did not have joint pain. I had all sorts of other reactions I now attribute to insufficient cortisol. And perhaps the joint pain did not set in right away for some of the reasons you describe johnwen, but I did have the shortness of breath, apparent respiratory infection (but no pathogen could be found!) and the heart sac filled with fluid.

I think I may know what happened. Why I didn't get joint pain right away. When the brain wants cortisol, it really wants it, and when it doesn't get it, hormonal signals fly fast and furious. The brain was able to get enough cortisol, from extraordinary measures, but the hormonal imbalances that resulted are responsible for the other issues. This is very similar to what Jefferies described in many cases, and explained why giving a small replacement dosage to young women normalized breast development, because the hormonal signals trying to have the adrenals make cortisol had gone awry.

It was only later, after I got out of the hospital that the joint pain began in earnest, and thinking that it might be gout, I tried to treat that - to no avail.

My rescue was the med-pak of methyl prednisolone my (now fired) primary care physician gave me - to help me avoid a 3rd ER visit.) I learned on my own that no amount of IV/C had any real effect (unless solef cort?? was added - a form of cortisol!). I discovered that with 8 mg of methyl prednisolone, I was fine. No pain, etc. Only later did I learn that 8-10 mg is the "replacement" dosage.

As a thought experiment, lets reiterate, The body has an absolute daily requirement for cortisol which the adrenals produce. (No reason yet to confuse free/bound. The adrenals make it every day, and we know this from adernalectomized patients. People without functioning adrenal glands.)

Pick a number for a given individual. Lets say it is 9.5 mg of cortisol, on average, that this individual's adrenal glands produce, day in, day out, throughout his entire unstressed life.

Then one day, after a major stress caused the brain to request say 18 mg for several days, the adrenals lose their full capacity, and only produce 9 mg (not the requested 9.5 mg). (Note: According to SAFE USES OF CORTISOL, the exhaustion sets in about 2 months after the major stress in ones life.)

What happens? If day after day, instead of the 9.5 mg the brain is requested, the adrenals are only able to product 9 mg?

What if .5 mg of cortisol is missing for an extended time?

And what if it gets worse, what if only 8 mgs can be produced throughout the day?

We are talking about potentially very small changes in output.

The point is that because of the general variability in cortisol secretion, it is very difficult to create a test that will show this.

I maintain that doctors can make educated guesses that this is happening, as the number one symptom over time is pain in the extremities - especially fingers, knuckles and joints.

This is the condition generally unrecognized or diagnosed by modern medicine that is the cause of untold pain and suffering, and if it were not for Doctor Jefferies, I would be among that throng!

[Johnwen]

[kohlrabicroce]

[ofonorow]

Lets get back to the issue, will johnwen (medicine) accept that fact that it is possible for the adrenal gland to lack the capacity to produce enough cortisol to meet the brain's demand? Especially after age 50, and after a great stress? (The other option is the cortisol is always available in limitless supply.)

And does medicine realize that when there is a shortage of cortisol in the blood stream, the end result is inflammation/pain? We are talking 12-24 hours before the pain begins.

If doctors are not taught this, there is a big hole in their education... (Speaking of holes,, vitamin C, cholesterol, salt, stomach acid, etc.)

And I thought of another way for the doctor to diagnose/prescribe adrenal insufficiency .

Blood sugar.

If the result of exogenous supplementation is additive - then blood pressure should rise.

(I thought of this because my own blood sugar which has remained around 120 for about a year on 4 mg - rose last week. In response, I have lowered my cortisol (methyl prednisolone) intake from 4 to 1 to 2 grams, so far without much pain!)

The position that it is always dangerous to supplement cortisol is untenable. And I think using blood sugar as a guide, along with pain, makes a lot of sense.

Do M.D.'s have any idea that when cortisol is low, the body inflames?

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

Will study those links, but your argument to its logical conclusion is that the body is hurting itself! (By producing cortisol). My argument is that as we age, some people cannot produce enough, and that results in pain.

Doctors who are afraid to prescribe it, end up making a lot more money than if they did. That is the thesis, that this is simply another area where medicine is wrong - in favor of treatment of chronic diseases with pharmaceuticals.

By the way, Coritsol is not a "feel good" drug, any more than Aspirin is a "feel good drug." Yes, it stops pain, and I guess, come to think of it, that is why they call them NSAIDS - Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drugs... Cortisol is THE anti-inflammatory "drug". (Natural hormone!)

Saying it has been studied so there is nothing more to learn, hides and obscures the fact that a lot of pain can easily be eliminated if M.D.s were trained properly.

My own speculation is that the aches and pains in the morning upon waking up as we age, are caused by low cortisol in the a.m., with sluggish adrenals, which get kicked up to speed. Just speculating.

Before I describe last night, sometimes, don't you think we are all taking part in some kind of Alien Child's High School Science Experiment in Human Behavior or Human Physchology? Could all these things be coincidence? (Like my arguing for cortisol.. Then the experimenter pushes a button - and my blood sugar rises - during the argument here. Strange, that's all.)

Anyway, I tried to cut back to 1 mg methyl prednisolone yesterday (equivalent of 5 mg hydrocortisone) and was good up until bed time. Then the pain began in an unusual way. More like pricks and needles of inflammation, around my hands/knuckles, but also my arms/legs... So I chickened out, and took another 1 mg...

Woke up today pretty good, but I know I am on the edge - my body needs some extra (seems like at least 2 mg, which is 1/2 the dosage I was taking) , so I am trying to follow Dr. Pincus's advice and wean slowly..

But this does seem to argue for johnwen's position - that even lower dosages can be additive... Assuming my blood sugar is entirely due to the prednisolone. .

[kohlrabicroce]

Will study those links, but your argument to its logical conclusion is that the body is hurting itself! (By producing cortisol). My argument is that as we age, some people cannot produce enough, and that results in pain.

Doctors who are afraid to prescribe it, end up making a lot more money than if they did. That is the thesis, that this is simply another area where medicine is wrong - in favor of treatment of chronic diseases with pharmaceuticals.

By the way, Coritsol is not a "feel good" drug, any more than Aspirin is a "feel good drug." Yes, it stops pain, and I guess, come to think of it, that is why they call them NSAIDS - Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drugs... Cortisol is THE anti-inflammatory "drug". (Natural hormone!)

Saying it has been studied so there is nothing more to learn, hides and obscures the fact that a lot of pain can easily be eliminated if M.D.s were trained properly.

My own speculation is that the aches and pains in the morning upon waking up as we age, are caused by low cortisol in the a.m., with sluggish adrenals, which get kicked up to speed. Just speculating.

Before I describe last night, sometimes, don't you think we are all taking part in some kind of Alien Child's High School Science Experiment in Human Behavior or Human Physchology? Could all these things be coincidence? (Like my arguing for cortisol.. Then the experimenter pushes a button - and my blood sugar rises - during the argument here. Strange, that's all.)

Anyway, I tried to cut back to 1 mg methyl prednisolone yesterday (equivalent of 5 mg hydrocortisone) and was good up until bed time. Then the pain began in an unusual way. More like pricks and needles of inflammation, around my hands/knuckles, but also my arms/legs... So I chickened out, and took another 1 mg...

Woke up today pretty good, but I know I am on the edge - my body needs some extra (seems like at least 2 mg, which is 1/2 the dosage I was taking) , so I am trying to follow Dr. Pincus's advice and wean slowly..

But this does seem to argue for johnwen's position - that even lower dosages can be additive... Assuming my blood sugar is entirely due to the prednisolone. .

I'm trying to understand....how does your very recent experience with unsuccessfully trying to lower your dose, argue for Johnwen's position that even lower
doses can be additive? When it seems clear that your experience indicates it was not additive?

[ofonorow]

[ofonorow]

Will study those links,. . . .
But this does seem to argue for johnwen's position - that even lower dosages can be additive... Assuming my blood sugar is entirely due to the prednisolone. .

I'm trying to understand....how does your very recent experience with unsuccessfully trying to lower your dose, argue for Johnwen's position that even lower
doses can be additive? When it seems clear that your experience indicates it was not additive?

The answer is that my blood sugar rose.

This shouldn't happen at 4 mg. If I take 4, the adrenals should only produce around 4. The total cortisol must have been more than 8-10 (in prednizone units) for the sugar to rise above 400 again.

I can tell now that my own adrenals can make about 6 mg, so if they were at capacity - 6 - plus my other 4, the results could be over 10 mg.

Now there has been a certain amount of stress related to the Foundation move, and inabilty to procure products. hmmm It is possible that the body was requesting a higher amount that it should - from the stress.

But why then doesn't anyone under stress reach 400 mg/dl blood sugar. Appreciate your post and thoughts.

[kohlrabicroce]

The answer is that my blood sugar rose.

This shouldn't happen at 4 mg. If I take 4, the adrenals should only produce around 4. The total cortisol must have been more than 8-10 (in prednizone units) for the sugar to rise above 400 again.

I can tell now that my own adrenals can make about 6 mg, so if they were at capacity - 6 - plus my other 4, the results could be over 10 mg.

Now there has been a certain amount of stress related to the Foundation move, and inabilty to procure products. hmmm It is possible that the body was requesting a higher amount that it should - from the stress.

But why then doesn't anyone under stress reach 400 mg/dl blood sugar. Appreciate your post and thoughts.

Wait, your blood sugar rose to 400 mg/dl when you increased your dose again, after going down to 1 mg?
I'm not clear about whether it happened at a dose of 4 mg before you tried to reduce it, but I am just
beginning to learn about adrenal fatigue (and suspect I might have it).

But I do know a little about diabetes, as I have it. 400 mg/dl is really bad! I would go talk
to your doctor about it! Wow !

Sounds like this situation is complicated and needs some discussion with your real doctor, in person.

Just my opinion!

But I do agree with your opinion that "it is so simple, it cannot be accepted" by the medical profession.

I know you like that book you recommend, but I'm going to start with Dr. Wilson's book:
"Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome."

[Johnwen]

[Johnwen]

Posted the above late I see two more posts were added.
I see you hit 400 not good but does happen.
You need to get a A1C test to get a overveiw of whats been going on over the last few months and see if this spike is a common thing or a fluke.
If your over 150 in the am get a hold of your doc.