Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:33 am

Hello,

I just had a few quick questions about the Linus Pauling protocol. I've been taking the Cardio C for a while, trying to reverse heart disease and arterial plaque, but I think maybe I'm not taking enough. I usually only take it once a day. Should I be taking it twice a day?

I was reading an article about the protocol recently. It says that the proline amount to take is 2 to 3 grams per day, but I noticed that the proline in the Cardio C is 1 gram if taken twice a day.

I wasn't sure if I needed to take more Proline with the Cardio C or just the Cardio C? Also, can I take other supplements with the Cardio C or does it have to be taken on an empty stomach?

Thank you so much,
Dorothy


If I understand your "once per day" protocol, that is, one scoop (2500 mg of vitamin C) making one drink, then you may not be taking enough. Based on the Linus Pauling's Unified Theory video lecture, see this snippet:

youtube direct link
https://youtu.be/7c4lwRhvI2E

Pauling recommended 3 grams of vitamin C daily for "every" adult.

However, for those with heart disease, Pauling recommended 5 or 6 grams of vitamin C, and a minimum of 2 grams of extra lysine for a therapeutic effect.

These are conservative recommendations made back in 1992. In the same video, Pauling described the first case(s) where 5 g, and then 6 g of vitamin C and lysine performed a miracle on a scientist who was a fellow member of the National Academy of Sciences.

For part of this case study, see this snippet.

youtube direct link
https://youtu.be/0WO13aKfRv4
The fellow scientist increased, on his own, the 5 g recommended by Pauling to 6 g daily, and his pain went away.

We designed one jar of Cardio-C (or one jar of the brand new Cardio-CAPS capsules) to provide the "prophylactic" or preventive dosage as recommended by Pauling.

Two jars, reaches the dosage level of the case studies in the Pauling unified theory video lecture.

Since there is no known toxicity, many heart patients have gone initially to 3 or even 4 jars monthly, often with spectacular results. Sadly, we don't know the proper maintenance dose, but we believe that after disease reversal, one jar per month may be an appropriate maintenance dose.

We do know you cannot stop altogether without risking a heart attack roughly six months after stopping higher dose vitamin C (and lysine).

The proline question is interesting. The answer likely depends on your measured Lp(a) cholesterol blood levels. The proline binding site (analogous to the lysine binding site) on Lp(a) was discovered after Pauling's death by university of Chicago researchers. It was Pauling's associate Matthias Rath who first began recommending proline. In our experience, proline is the nutritional factor that lowers our body's production of Lp(a). Proline is not essential, meaning our bodies can make this amino acid, but perhaps we make less as we age? Note that all the cases in my book (from back around 2006) were based upon our experience using Tower Hearttechnology, which from memory, only had 400 mg of proline per serving. So the 2 jar therapeutic dose would have provided 800 mg per day. Two jars of Cardio-C provides 1000 mg of the amino acid L-proline per day.

We have seen, but don't really know where these "2-3 grams of proline" recommendations are coming from, or what they are based upon. Maybe these high dosages couldn't hurt, but based upon our experience, lower amounts can work miracles. See our current testimonials:

http://vitaminccures.com/blog/index.php/heart-disease-testimonials/

Re: when to take Pauling's therapy. Over the years, correspondents have reported the "best results" taking the large dose of Pauling's therapy about 20-30 minutes prior to meals. By this I mean, taking the high amounts this way produces the least amount of bloating, gas, etc. However, I don't think it matters too much when you take vitamin C and lysine - as long as it isn't in conjunction with fiber. Fiber can leach onto nutrients, keeping them from being absorbed.

Reminder that a good central location to start looking for information about Pauling's vitamin C and lysine therapy and products is:

https://heartcure.info/
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthopath® (Orthomolecular Naturopath)
® is a trademark of the Institute for Orthomolecular Studies

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Re: Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

Post Number:#2  Post by DiverDown2 » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:46 am

Not trying to hijack thread, just some snippets of info. I have collected.
Thanks to ofonorow, if not for this board I would never have known about Pauling and Rath and Vitamin-C benefits.

L-Proline Benefits
Proline is the third most abundant amino acid in the body, after glutamine and alanine. Nearly every protein the body makes contains at least some proline, but proline is especially important in collagen, the protein found in skin, bone, and connective tissue.

The human body can make proline from glutamic acid, the most abundant amino acid in food. Proline acts in concert with another amino acid, ornithine, in tissue growth. Enzymes that incorporate proline and ornithine into collagen depend on the presence of niacin, pyridoxine (vitamin B6), and vitamin C.

Pauling and Rath believed that:
The combination of L-Lysine and L-Proline, which are used to make collagen, along with vitamin C, niacin, and vitamin B6, would heal the site of injury in the artery so that cholesterol would even cease to be a concern.

Program for the reversal of heart disease recommends:
L-proline 3 grams twice each day (acts to release Lipoprotein(a) from plaque formation and prevent further deposition of same).

L-Lysine and L-Proline, two natural amino acids, can prevent the apo(a) adhesive from sticking, serving as a kind of Teflon coating. Of these,
L-Proline is several times more powerful than L-Lysine. These aminos also assist to shrink the plaque which is already present.

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Re: Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

Post Number:#3  Post by pamojja » Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:53 pm

DiverDown2 wrote:Program for the reversal of heart disease recommends:
L-proline 3 grams twice each day (acts to release Lipoprotein(a) from plaque formation and prevent further deposition of same).


Interesting, where did you read that?

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Re: Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

Post Number:#4  Post by stevewoodz99 » Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:21 am

"Pauling recommended 3 grams of vitamin C daily for "every" adult.

However, for those with heart disease, Pauling recommended 5 or 6 grams of vitamin C, and a minimum of 2 grams of extra lysine for a therapeutic effect"

how does someone know if they have heart disease?

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Re: Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

Post Number:#5  Post by DiverDown2 » Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:06 am

https://medical-library.net/lipoprotein ... vitamin-c/

Near the bottom of article:
Program for the reversal of heart disease

If you have vascular disease, and if you want not to have it, there is a plan for you.

Get yourself into chelation therapy and stay the course. This is the fastest, most proven method of dealing with this life-threatening condition. The literature proving this is extensive, despite what uninformed doctors may tell you. Then, in consultation with a doctor who practices nutritional medicine, take the following steps: (All the following dosages may be adjusted by your doctor, based on his or her experience and medical opinion.)
Vitamin C to bowel tolerance — as much as you can take without diarrhea. For most people this will be in the range of five to ten grams (5,000-10,000 mg.) each day. Spread this amount into two equal doses 12 hours apart. (Vitamin C prevents further cracking of the blood vessel wall — the beginning of the disease.)
Co-enzyme Q10 90-180 mg. twice each day (strengthens the heart muscle).
L-carnitine 3 grams twice each day (also strengthens the heart muscle).
L-lysine 3 grams twice each day (acts to release lipoprotein(a) from plaque formation and prevent further deposition of same).
L-proline 3 grams twice each day (acts to release lipoprotein(a) from plaque formation and prevent further deposition of same).

Niacin decreases the production of lipoprotein(a) in the liver. Inositol hexaniacinate is a form of naicin which gives less of a problem with flushing and therefore allows for larger therapeutic doses. Begin with 250 mg. at lunch, 500 mg. at dinner and 500 mg. at bedtime the first day; then increase gradually over a few days until you reach four grams per day, or the highest dose under four grams you can tolerate. Be sure to aks your doctor for liver enzyme level tests every two months or less to be sure your liver is able to handle the dose you are taking.
Vitamin E (as Unique E) 800-2400 IU per day. (This inhibits the proliferation of smooth muscle cells in the walls of arteries undergoing the atherosclerotic changes.)
Stop smoking. (This decreases the free radical load on your body.)
Adopt a sensible diet with plenty of veggies and not so much fat. (The metabolism of fat decreases your body vitamin pool dramatically.)

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Re: Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

Post Number:#6  Post by pamojja » Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:44 am

DiverDown2 wrote:Near the bottom of article:
Program for the reversal of heart disease


All good. An article of Ron Kennedy Smothermon, M.D., as reverences only Dr. Rath. Who as far as I know recommends of everything doses too low. Not very convincing. Could be put together by anyone. Also chellation therapy isn't that easily available, or doctors found willing too knowledgable. Which a big difference to Pauling's therapy, easy accessible, and every item recommended with reasons.

Raising the question: Why so much of a non-essential amino acid? Which the body produces when needed itself? Which isn't the case with lysine, and which is which Pauling recommendet instead.

At least one case-report wher that amount of Proline made all the difference? As there are many with Pauling's therapy without?

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Re: Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

Post Number:#7  Post by DiverDown2 » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:46 am

As I stated above Just some snippets of info. I have collected (while researching how to lower my LP-a) not telling anyone this is the way to go.
I am tying it for a month before checking my LP-a to see if anything changes, since nothing else I have tried works.
I have followed Pauling's recommendations to the letter for a long time, and it never lowered my LP-a, so I figure what the hell I will give it a go with 6 grams L-Lysine and 6 grams L-Proline.

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Re: Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

Post Number:#8  Post by pamojja » Sun May 01, 2022 5:34 am

Thanks for the answer. Sorry for misunderstanding. But since the title here asked how much to take, and you answered I assumed there would be a reason for such high recommendations. Desperation is of course modivation too.

For me too nothing works against high Lp(a), really since 13 years. Although at one point it dropped to half, without changing my strategies. On the other hand Pauling gives the rationale for his approach, to either lower Lp(a), or otherwise make it less damaging. The latter is of course less easy to meassure like Lp(a) in blood-tests. I did however experience a remission from a walking-disability 5 years ago (from a 80% stenosis at my abdominal aorta), and that does tell it could be because it became slowly less damaging.

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Re: Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

Post Number:#9  Post by stevewoodz99 » Thu May 05, 2022 9:12 am

pamojja wrote:For me too nothing works against high Lp(a), really since 13 years..

have you tried a prolonged fast?
3 days or so?

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Re: Am I taking enough? How much proline should I be taking?

Post Number:#10  Post by pamojja » Thu May 05, 2022 6:13 pm

At young age I once waterfasted for 21 days. Therefore with my condition I did try a 7 day fast. The only effect seemed to be that my Gluconeogensis really got efficient, and had higher prediabetic fasting glucose since (fast usually 16 each day).


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