Cancel a second stent or no?

[JohnTN]

Hello all,

I'm new here and would appreciate an opinion. I'm 61, have had one heart attack 3 years ago and left critical care with a single stent. The Dr. now has me going in this week for a second heart cath as a result of something he saw in a nuclear stress test.

I started on 4 scoops of Ascorcine9 three weeks ago. Without asking for medical advice per se, any thoughts about what I should do; cancel the cath(which I predict will lead to a second stent), or should I cancel and give the PT a chance to work?

Grateful to have found this resource and value the opinions of the more informed and experienced here.

John

[JohnTN]

To update, I just cancelled my heart cath. My Dr won't be happy, but I'd rather put my faith in PT. I'm now up to 7000 mg of Ascorcine-9 plus an additional 1600 mg of liposomal midday.

[pamojja]

I personally wouldn't place much hope on the tiny and overpriced doses in arcosine, or liposomal, which only may has advantage in infections, but not for substancially raising ascorbate levels.

At least 20g pure ascorbic acid powder per day, spread out. Better still to titrate to bowel-tolerance to find your specific need.
Up to 6g of lysine daily.

The following was advised by Linus Pauling just to maintain good health, already with heart attack much, much more is likely needed:
Up to 20000 IU retinol.
1 or 2 B-complex capsules (like from LEF).
A good multi, to get sufficient of the trace minerals (for example: iodine, zinc, at least 200mcg of selenium..).
No sugar, use stevia extract instead.

I would also add:
At least 400mg magnesium, personally with severe deficiency took in averag 1.8g daily for the last 14 years.
Koncentreted-K vitamin pill.
CoQ10.
Fish-oil, Tree gram daily minilmum.
Clean non-processed diet, as much as possible.

Good luck!

[pamojja]

The following was advised by Linus Pauling just to maintain good health, already with heart attack much, much more is likely needed:

Here the original text of 1986, when mach new research wasn't available jet.

How to Live Longer and Feel Better

• Take vitamin C every day, 6 grams to 18 g (6000 to 18,000 milligrams), or more. Do not miss a single day.
  
• Take vitamin E every day, 400 IU, 800 IU, or 1600 IU.
  
• Take one or two Super-B tablets every day, to provide good amounts of the B-vitamins.
  
• Take 25,000 IU vitamin A tablet every day.
  
• Take a mineral supplement every day, such as one tablet of the Bronson vitamin-mineral formula, which provides 100 mg of calcium, 18 mg of iron, 0.15 mg of iodine, 1 mg of copper, 25 mg of magnesium, 3 mg of manganese, 15 mg of zinc, 0.015 mg of molybdenum, 0.015 mg of chromium, and 0.015 mg of selenium.
  
• Keep your intake of ordinary sugar (sucrose, raw sugar, brown sugar, honey) to 50 pounds per year, which is half the present U.S. average. Do not add sugar to tea or coffee. Do not eat high-sugar foods. Avoid sweet desserts. Do not drink soft drink.
  
• Except for avoiding sugar, eat what you like - but not too much of any one food. Eggs and meat are good foods. Also you should eat some vegetables and fruits. Do not eat so much food as to become obese.
  
• Drink plenty of water every day.
  
• Keep active; take some exercise. Do not at any time exert yourself physically to an extent far beyond what you are accustomed to.
  
• Drink alcoholic beverages only in moderation.
  
• Do not smoke cigarettes.
  
• Avoid stress. Work at a job that you like. Be happy with your family.

[DiverDown2]

I would not have cancelled the appointment, if you are close to 100% blocked, what you are doing is not going to open it up.
I speak from experience, I tried PT, while I was 90% blocked, I had a heart attack and arrested..
I had the stent to open up, Now I Reily on P.T, Nitric Oxide, Strick diet with zero sugar and Serrapeptase to keep them open.
It is going on 3 years now and each checkup, Including heart cath. show I am open and clear.
If you still do not want to not have stints, Check into Enhanced external counterpulsation. (Which I have completed 3 times)

[JohnTN]

The stress test just said >10% and the hospital papers just said hearth cath with possible intervention. I canceled Monday. If you give them an opportunity, I figure you're getting a stent to pad the bill. From reading many posts here, it sounds like the consensus view is stents are problematic.

[pamojja]

From reading many posts here, it sounds like the consensus view is stents are problematic.

''''

Don't go by consens - do your own research.

A very good resource for someone not used to verify primary research yet, is http://www.thennt.com. The risk/benefit ratio found there for the prescriptions/intervention intended for me till my deathbed against a 80% stenosis:

Statins Given for 5 Years for Heart Disease Prevention (With Known Heart Disease)

83 for mortality

In Summary, for those who took the statin for 5 years:

Benefits in NNT

1 in 83 were helped (life saved)
1 in 39 were helped (preventing non-fatal heart attack)
1 in 125 were helped (preventing stroke)

Harms in NNH

1 in 100 were harmed (develop diabetes*)
1 in 10 were harmed (muscle damage)

*The development of diabetes is one such unanticipated harm found in a recent large study and it seems likely therefore that this applies to the data above, although this is a best guess.



Aspirin to Prevent Cardiovascular Disease in Patients with Known Heart Disease or Strokes

333 for mortality

In Summary, for those who took the aspirin:

Benefits in NNT

1 in 50 were helped (cardiovascular problem prevented)
1 in 333 were helped (prevented death)
1 in 77 were helped (prevented non-fatal heart attack)
1 in 200 were helped (prevented non-fatal stroke)

Harms in NNH

1 in 400 were harmed (major bleeding event*)

*Required hospital admission and transfusion



Blood Pressure Medicines for Five Years to Prevent Death, Heart Attacks, and Strokes

125 for mortality

In Summary, for those who took anti-hypertensives:

Benefits in NNT

1 in 125 were helped (prevented death)
1 in 67 were helped (prevented stroke)
1 in 100 were helped (prevented heart attack*)

Harms in NNH

1 in 10 were harmed (medication side effects, stopping the drug)

*fatal and non-fatal myocardial infarction and sudden or rapid cardiac death




Clopidogrel Added to Aspirin to Prevent a Second Heart Attack Or Stroke

None for mortality

In Summary, for those who took the clopidogrel:


Benefits in NNT

None were helped (cardiovascular problem prevented)

Harms in NNT

1 in 167 were harmed (major bleeding event*)




Coronary Stenting for Non-Acute Coronary Disease Compared to Medical Therapy

None for mortality

In Summary, for those who received the stenting:

Benefits in NNT

None were helped (life saved, heart attack prevented, symptoms reduced)

Harms in NNH

1 in 50 were harmed (complications such as bleeding, stroke, kidney damage)

None of dose interventions ever studied beyond 5 years. Remissions impossible, down that path.

[DiverDown2]

I take 16-18 Grams Vitamin-C, 6 Grams L-Lysine and 4 Grams L-Proline.
Don't forget to take the L-Proline.

[ofonorow]

Choosing Pauling's protocol over the heart cath was obviously a big decision. I'm glad you made it and I'll try to help. The feature of Tower's ASCORSINE-9 (which I helped design) is that the formula includes almost everything a heart patient should be taking, cutting out scores of pills. We didn't focus on magnesium because the CEO of Tower couldn't tolerate ordinary Magnesium. After reading Levy's MAGNESIUM Healing Disease I would have added a highly absorbable form of magnesium to the formula. I'd be interested in your full protocol, and would suggest you consider adding at least 250 mg of magnesium chloride.

Vitamin C bowel tolerance is an important tool, but usually most relevant for acute issues, especially infections. Heart disease (aka chronic scurvy) can usually be overcome with about 10 g of vitamin C daily.

It turns out that a lay author, Mark Sloan, has become popular for his dives into early research. He attempts to base his recommendations on older science and they are interesting and make a lot of sense. Sloan believes the Nitric Oxidei s an "emergency" artery dilation mechanism, but that it is dangerous if relied upon continuously. I think I first read this in his Methelene Blue book. He presents evidence that the primary way our bodies dilate arteries is connected with carbon dioxide. That our health an what he calls "metabolism" (ability of the body to produce energy in our mitochondia) is a function of the carbon dioxide levels in our bodies. We don't think about the fact that body oxygenation requires carbon dioxide, but without it, oxygen can not be pried out of hemaglobin. I made some posts on this in the General Discussion.

Since you are taking ASCORSINE-9, there are fewer things to worry about. Keep us informed.

[Blanko]

My health is turning around since introducing magnesium. Maybe simply from allowing me to sleep better, but it really is helping, and clearly was missing in my life. Also noticed before the magnesium my sleep was worse, not better, after sunbathing.

Any thoughts from those here on magnesium dosing, types, and risks of taking too much?

The oxide form generally is considered inferior, but for sleep it seems like one of the best forms. If it is not being absorbed, why does it help so well? The glycinate form has been giving me intense dreams of an unpleasant nature, but also seems to be doing much more good than harm.

Also makes me think many heart issues could be helped with magnesium supplementation. For one, quality sleep is so important. For another, magnesium is supposed to directly help nourish the heart.

Just read this in Levy's book:

"In a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial on diabetic patients with foot ulcers, daily oral supplementation with only 250 mg of magnesium oxide nevertheless showed substantial benefits in terms of ulcer size, glucose metabolism, plasma total antioxidant capacity, and C-reactive protein level."

So he agrees simple mag oxide is useful. Commonly you hear it doesn't get absorbed and just is a laxative, but I don't believe that.

I didn't know how important magnesium is until supplementing. Have had sleep issues for years that magnesium corrects better than anything else I have tried. Waking up feeling calm and refreshed makes such a difference, as you can imagine.

[pamojja]

.. why does it help so well?

See the very old discussion here: https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/1 ... ntry545213

Take the type of Mg which is well tolerated and works for you. Some get diarrhea from miniscule amounts of some and therefore consider these as mere laxatives, others aren't.

Difficult to overdose with magnesium, since usually long before diarrhea limits it. But it is always recommendable to do labs, RBC or whole blood test for magnesium, to get a handle how deficient you are (almost all are deficient nowadays), and after some time to see where it went with the dose you took. And to adjust.

[Blanko]

Thank you. I will experiment with different forms in addition to 1 250 mg mag oxide nightly. Obviously if you take too much oxide you get laxative effects, so if you want a higher dose of magnesium you need to add in other forms. For AOR's Advanced Magnesium Complex, one said he got severe tachycardia. Most report good results from that combination formula, but even just one case of such a serious reaction is cause for concern. It contains mag aspartate, mag ascorbate, mag malate, mag glycinate to comprise 100 mg per dose. Have also read of mag orotate raising the heart rate in a stimulant fashion vs an expected lowering of stress.

Took glycinate again last night, along with mag citrate and mag threonate, and that worked well. Currently out of mag oxide. Probably over the years I accumulated quite a mag deficit, for a variety of reasons.

Also am not fond of lots of these powders being imported from China instead of manufactured in North America, but I suppose if they are properly tested when here then it should not matter. Just that 1. It doesn't make sense to have basic food/supplement products shipped from around the world and 2. China is known for cutting corners wherever possible.

[Blanko]

Tonight I took a variety of magnesium supplements and haven't been able to sleep at all. Any ideas why sometimes the magnesium stimulates the nerves instead of relaxing them? Was feeling relaxed until an evening meal I had comprised of wholesome sandwiches with 2 different vitamin C pills. That did something to the nerves, and then the magnesium I took before bed, that I thought would help put me to sleep as usual, had a paradoxical effect. Feeling quite flustered with supplements. Going to stop everything for now. Currently nerves are so stimulated despite having taken mag citrate, mag glycinate, and mag threonate, same as I did the night prior to have a most excellent sleep. Bizarre.

Someone elsewhere said they needed B1 to be able tolerate magnesium. Could be you have to take a B complex during the day if you want to use magnesium with consistent results at night?

Just read this: "At least 400mg magnesium, personally with severe deficiency took in average 1.8g daily for the last 14 years."

Did you need extra B1 to tolerate that? What were you experiencing before that high mag supplementation and how did it fix those issues? Are you sure you needed so much?

I just read this as well: https://statcarewalkin.com/info/magnesi ... ealth.html

Currently I have pale/yellow stool. It says: "Magnesium can also cause your poop to turn yellow. This may be a sign of excess magnesium in your system or a disruption in the normal digestive process."

So for now I will stop the supplements and return to a natural baseline to see how things go. Could be I was overdoing it and possibly supplements should be used more sparingly.

[Blanko]

Now I read this:

"It can inhibit calcium, and sometimes that causes insomnia even though calcium can also make people wakeful. It’s happened to me sometimes where calcium solved it, and my mom has horrible anxiety that she used to take lots of magnesium for and she would get calcium imbalance insomnia often." https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/com ... _insomnia/

The night prior when I had the long, excellent sleep I had a large amount of calcium-rich kefir. Possibly that is the trick.

However, one there says:

"Also, the weird thing is that I have sleeping issues even when I take only 50mg or 100mg of magnesium supplementation, which doesn’t seem high enough to cause a calcium imbalance."

Definitely that wouldn't be high enough to cause any imbalance.

Bottom line, I just don't know.

Now I took 1 more mag glycinate tablet (Metagenics brand) -- after just finishing a large meal -- and once again I can feel the nerves getting stimulated. Before the tablet the meal had calmed down my nerves.

[Blanko]

Highly convinced the mag glycinate is the problem. Took mag citrate and now I am calm and ready for sleep.