I’m looking for start the Pauling health protocol with a particular interest in heart health.

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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I’m looking for start the Pauling health protocol with a particular interest in heart health.

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:08 am


Hello!

I would like a bit of advice as to what product/s and dosage would you recommend for a woman in her late 40's no health issues in a any systems except elevated Lp(a) 112nmol/L, high LDL 123mg/dL and high APOB 94mg/dL.

Also, I take about 20-40 grams of collagen and some whey protein/Creatine per day so there are a few additional amino acids there. Would I still need to add the other aminos taken in lesser amounts (proline, arginine, etc....)?

I'm not including Lysine in this last question. If you could please give me some information I would GREATLY appreciate it. I look forward to your response.

Best, E


From memory, normal lp(a) in nmol/l is around 90, so your "elevated" Lp(a) is not all that high, and indicates to me, based on the Pauling/Rath Unified Theory, that you merely need to consume more vitamin C. Pauling/Ginter have reported on extensive work that showed vitamin C "normalizes" high cholesterol. So your elevated cholesterol levels are another indication that you require more vitamin C than you are taking.

By the way, do you know what the symptom of "high cholesterol" is? Feeling good. Cholesterol (other than Lp(a)) does ot cause heart disease. Higher cholesterol is a symptom, and if they recommended a cholesterol-lowering drug, I would seriously reconsider using it.

The collagen is interesting. Why so much? Collagen is a source of protein. All proteins have to be digested into the constituent amino acids during digestion. So taking collagen won't necessarily result in more collagen in your body. It is interesting that vitamin C is required for the body to build collagen out of the constituent amino acids, and does promote the production of your own collagen. This is one reason why people who take, let's say "adequate" vitamin C, have fewer wrinkles.

Another source I follow, he who advises Anthony William the Medical Medium, points out that adults are eating too much protein. This protein tends to accumulate undigested in the gut which cause various issues that people aren't connecting to eating too much protein.

The amino acids lysine (and proline) have specific medicinal properties related to heart disease based on the binding sites of the Lp(a) molecule. Lp(a) binds to the lysine residues that appear in cracks in the arteries. These "plaster casts" that form inside arteries (and are referred to as atherosclerosis) are a healing process. Vitamin C, lysine (and proline) not only neutralize the Lp(a) (by binding before the lysine on the cracked arterial wall can bind) but vitamin C and lysine are components of collagen, and they will keep the arterial wall strong and prevent the cracks that start the heart disease process.

I published my nutrient recommendations and you can download the chapter for free
http://practicingmedicinewithoutalicense.com/protocol/
These recommendations are based around the foundation laid by Linus Pauling.

Many Pauling-therapy products provide the major components in the protocol, including Heart Technology from Tower Laboratories and Inteligent Vitamin C's Cardio-C,

The dosages are generally divided into preventive, i.e. one serving per day, one jar per month. And therapeutic that starts with 2 or more servings per day, and two or three jars per month. From what you have reported, I predict you would do well on the one-jar preventive dose, although you may be wise to supplement extra vitamin C until your cholesterol becomes normal.


I will say, based on now almost 30 years of experience, that the simplest formula that does the trick and that is based entirely on Pauling's invention is Cardio-C.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: I’m looking for start the Pauling health protocol with a particular interest in heart health.

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:22 pm

Good morning Owen!

Thank you so very much for getting back to me. I did read your book and that is why I decide to go on this path versus the traditional medical protocol. I’ll look into the Medical Medium. I had to heard about him. Thank you for the recommendation.

I take the high amount of collagen because I’m still not 100% back to normal from a small injury a few years ago (that I seemed to have injured again about a year ago) that stretched out the ligament on my right ankle. I heard that extra collagen might help with that.


Extra vitamin C and its wondrous effect (at adequate dosages) strengthening bones and ligaments would no doubt help your right ankle. This effect is due to the fact that the body cannot produce its own collagen without vitamin C, and Pauling cited research showing that for every molecule of collagen the body produces, one molecule of vitamin C is used up. I can't think of any reason why taking collagen orally would have any beneficial effect, outside of providing proteins that are broken down into amino acids. The body still requires vitamin C to make human-compatible collagen.


I have also heard that high amount of vitamin C can interfere with zinc/copper in the body. What are your thoughts on that? Should that be a concern?


Whenever someone gives an argument that "high amounts" of vitamin C does this or that harmful thing, the first question is why doesn't this happen to animals? All but a very few species make their own vitamin C in amounts Pauling computed at around 9000 mg for an animal of his body weight. We would expect that same harm in animals producing high amounts of their own vitamin C, vitamin C which goes directly into the blood streams.

The Medical Medium source tells us that while certain organic forms of copper are required for normal brain function, the copper we ingest is mostly toxic, and interacts with other heavy metals feeding pathogens.

Human science has made a surprising finding about copper and susceptibility to infection.


Circulating levels of micronutrients and risk of infections: a Mendelian randomization study
https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/a ... 23-02780-3

Results

We found a significant association between circulating levels of copper and risk of gastrointestinal infections, where a one standard deviation increase in blood levels of copper was associated with an odds ratio of gastrointestinal infections of 0.91 (95% confidence interval 0.87 to 0.97, P = 1.38E−03). This finding was robust in extensive sensitivity analyses. There was no clear association between the other micronutrients and the risk of infection.
Conclusions

Our results strongly support a role of copper in the susceptibility to gastrointestinal infections.


Example of the Medical Medium labeling copper as a "toxic heavy metal"

Anthony William wrote:Degenerative eye diseases of all kinds have mercury involved, even if medical research and science are decades from realizing this. Heavy metals are behind the mysterious blindness that's considered genetic; cell inside our eyes that are responsible for vision get saturated with corrosive aluminum byproduct that's a result of interactions with mercury.

Celery juice is one of the most powerful foods for vision and restoration of the eyes. In this area, it equals and even surpasses the wild blueberry, which is the only other food on Planet Earth that has the power to protect your eyes to this degree.... With celery juice, one reason why its' healing people is that it helps remove toxic copper from the body.


Re: zinc
I have no knowledge that vitamin C does anything other than work in conjunction with zinc to help fight viral infections. The Medical Medium does tell us that we rapidly use up zinc in the human body, and most people are deficient.

Also, do you know if the Ascorbic Acid on the Cardio-C comes from China?


The original Cardio-C product now, and for the foreseeable future uses and will use DSM's Quali-C which is manufactured in Europe.

In addition, how do you feel about taking calcium supplements along with Pauling protocol. The calcium coming mostly from Icelandic sea algae and/or mycrocrystaline hydroxyapatite.

As always, I look forward to your reply and once again thank you for taking the time to offer your feedback.

Best regards,


Funny you should ask about calcium. Dr. Levy has written a very interesting and well researched book DEATH BY CALCIUM. Levy cites the evidence that the more calcium in the body, the higher the mortality (risk of death.) No reason to fear small amounts of organic calcium, such as the calcium ascorbate you might get eating an orange. But high amounts of calcium are counter-productive. Other than growing children, the body's requirement for calcium is quite low.

BTW, Levy has found evidence that osteoporosis is a vitamin C deficiency in the bones .
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: I’m looking for start the Pauling health protocol with a particular interest in heart health.

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:47 pm

Thank you so much for this information. :-)

I was wondering if you think it would be fine to take the morning vitamin c mix with a greens powder or should I only take it alone? Also, why is the lysine suggested cap at 6grams? I seem to be doing well with 8 grams of C should I keep going up until bowel tolerance?

As always thank you for assisting me with this. I very much appreciate it.

Best,


I now think it is an excellent idea to take your vitamin C with greens, and would be even better to take with fruit, pure fruit juice (no regular sugar added), or honey or maple syrup. We now understand that for any nutrient to be usable by the body, insulin must be present. Glucose (and apparently high vitamin C) stimulates the pancreas tor release insulin.

I think the cap on lysine is because 5 -6 grams works its magic for almost everyone. Our former resident cardiologist once computed that the safe upper limit of lysine is 14 grams. And remember, when you eat protein, you are getting some lysine. (Pauling told it is essential and that we need at least 1 gram of lysine daily to stay in nitrogen balance.)

An individual's requirement for vitamin C is much more variable than lysine. The dose depends on stress and illness. The sicker you are, the more vitamin C you need. Dr. Robert Cathcart wrote his famous TITRATING TO BOWEL TOLERANCE paper describing how the amount of vitamin C varies depending on the severity of the illness. For example, mononucleosis (Epstein-Barr Virus) can lead to an ultra high bowel tolerance (no loose stools) up to 200,000 mg daily. See: https://www.vitamincfoundation.org/www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm

In your case 8 grams is probably very good, unless your current bowel tolerance is 30 grams. There is an ASCORBATE CLEANSE protocol that can give you an idea of how much vitamin C you currently need. Might search this forum for the protocol, but essentially you find a dose that you can tolerate. In my case, I could take 10,000 mg at one time. Some people have a limit of 500 mg at one time. Then you take this dose every 15-20 minutes until you have watery stools. Usually 90 minutes to two hours. The total amount of vitamin C is the indicator of what your body is absorbing. The recommendation is to make your daily amount about 75% of this number.
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Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: I’m looking for start the Pauling health protocol with a particular interest in heart health.

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:45 am

Hi Owen,

Thank you for information on the vitamin C cleanse. It is very useful.

I know the vitamin C and lysine are very important for heart health but I cannot recall what the job of the proline is. Would you please be so kind to give me your feedback on that?


Lysine and proline serve basically the same function in the Pauling/Rath invention. The sticky Lp(a) molecule has what are called Lysine Binding Sites. These receptors allow Lp(a) to adheres to residues in the arterial wall that appear after an artery cracks or becomes damaged. Turns out collagen is made out of lysine, proline and glycine, so when it deteriorates, lysyl residues appear that Lp(a) sticks to.

These binding sites are how Lp(a) creates the "plaster casts" on these cracks, stabilizing arteries that are weak from a lack of collagen from a lack of vitamin C.

The knowledge is that with optimal vitamin C, collagen production is normal and arteries remain naturally strong and resilient.

The benefit and genius of Pauling as the Chemist his from his understanding of how Lysine would actually dissolve existing Lp(a) plaques (plaster casts).

After Pauling passed, the University of Chicago discovered Proline Binding Sites on the Lp(a) molecule, on the order of the Lysine Binding Sites. These binding sites help explain how the sticky apo(a) lipoprotein molecules stick to LDL cholesterol molecules, forming Lp(a). I think this helps explain why Lp(a) drops to almost zero when proline is added to the Pauling protocol.

Both lysine and proline are Lp(a) binding inhibitors.





Would taking a therapeutic dose of Cardio-C of 4-6 times a day be too much of the other vitamins and minerals besides the vitamin C? Would it be better to do 2-3 of the Cardio-C while supplementing with just extra grans of Vitamin C?


If I understand the question, the issue is the extra lysine (and proline) that you get with additional doses of Cardio-C. I think after 3 servings per day, e.g. 7500 mg of lysine, it is better to supplement with more vitamin C rather than increasing the dosage of Cardio-C. As per another post, total cholesterol can be an indicator of how much additional vitamin C you should be taking. I routinely add a teaspoon of ascorbic acid powder to my Cardio-C drink, which is 4 or 5 extra grams of vitamin C.

The new "other worldly" knowledge we have tapped into teaches us that without insulin, nutrients, including vitamin C, remain in the blood and are not absorbed through cell membranes. Vitamin C is similar to glucose in structure, and high dose vitamin C apparently fools the pancreas into releasing insulin. Dr. Levy has provided references showing this.

So what happens when you eat fruits with glucose that will naturally release insulin at the same time you are taking your vitamin C? In theory, we (non diabetics) would require less vitamin C! (This is probably why the Medical Medium "shock" treatments include honey or pure maple syrup, to ensure an insulin release.)

We are also learning how important the other piece of the puzzle is: Avoiding fats around the time you are taking your supplements. Fats will cause "insulin resistance" by gumming up the glucose/insulin receptors on the cell membranes. One of the Medical Medium's main messages is that fat in the diet (and proteins usually have fats) should be limited to something like 15 or 20 percent of calories. Ordinary fats require about 6 hours to digest and remain in the blood stream for approximately that time. Makes sense to start the day with Cardio-C in a fruit smoothie, perhaps with some extra d-glucose (also known as dextrose) in the mix.


Also, about how long should I wait to retest the lipids markers (LDL, APOB, Lp(a) after starting this protocol? Should I expect to see improvement in all those markers as well?

Thank you again for taking the time and attention you have given me. I very much appreciate it and look forward to your reply. :-)

Best,


Well, total cholesterol is the key marker in my mind by indicating the level of inflammation, it thus whether the amount of vitamin C is optimal. I have found no real use for the sub-units.

Measured Lp(a) is also very important, but it is hard to find a lab that actually measures, these days, and you do the same thing for elevated Lp(a) that you do for a heart condition - take the Lp(a) binding inhibitors VItamin C, lysine (and proline). We do know that lowering Lp(a) is a slower process, sometimes requiring a year to go from elevated to near zero.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year


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