Cleveland lab lp(a) results

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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gmdodaro
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Cleveland lab lp(a) results

Post Number:#1  Post by gmdodaro » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:50 pm

I was surprised to find that my lp(a) score went up from 18 to 28 on the Cleveland Heart Lab scale. During the past six months I've increased my vitamin C dosage to more than 20 grams per day. I've also added high potency vitamin K2. Getting lp(a) under 10 begins to seem impossible.

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Re: Cleveland lab lp(a) results

Post Number:#2  Post by exitium » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:13 am

How much VC were you using when you got the 18 result and for how long? Has anything else changed in your life, diet, exercise, job etc?

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Re: Cleveland lab lp(a) results

Post Number:#3  Post by gmdodaro » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:50 am

I read Pauling's Vitamin C and the common Cold circa 1982, and for thirty years I've taken 10-15 grams per day of ascorbic acid powder. Interestingly enough, during last summer when the lp(a) score of 18 was recorded, I had backed off considerably on the dosage. I had read that the body could get too acidic, so I was then taking maybe 5-8 grams per day. During that time I was also getting regular EDTA chelation treatments for heart disease.

When I found your Pauling-Therapy site about heart disease and vitamin C, I again increased my dosage to 15-20 grams per day. But, you may recall the discussion to which you and JohnWen contributed, last November-December, when my ferritin and liver enzymes when off the scale. I found out that I have the hepatitis C virus. The Bert Burkson treatment brought it under control, and now the viral load remains undetectable, but before I knew what was causing the spikes in ferritin and liver enzymes, I had again backed off vitamin C dosage because I read that thalassemia patients can use vitamin C to increase the effectiveness of iron chelation. I have thalassemia minor, which tends to increase iron retention, and I thought vitamin C might be pulling iron out of where ever it is stored in the body. During two months of treatment for hepatitis C, I was tested twice for lp(a), and the scores were 22 and 15 as I recall. Strangely, in my case, if there is any correlation between vitamin C dosage and the four lp(a) scores that I can remember, the lp(a) scores were lower during times when I took 5-8 grams per day.

My exercise routine is about the same, 4-6 days per week of running and weight training. The ferritin score is now about 100, which is good for me. It's generally been 250-350, and during the hepatitis C flare-up it was over 4000. I take lactoferrin and ocassionally IP-6 to reduce iron retention. Inflammation, LP-PLA2, also went way up to 650+ during hepatitis C, but now is 275, not great but better than it was. Homocysteine is high: last tested at 13.1. CRP has been in normal range.

At the suggestion of my integrative MD I have, since the lp(a) and homocysteine tests, started taking Trimethylglycine (TMG) to attempt to lower the homocysteine.

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Re: Cleveland lab lp(a) results

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:47 am

gmdodaro wrote:I was surprised to find that my lp(a) score went up from 18 to 28 on the Cleveland Heart Lab scale. During the past six months I've increased my vitamin C dosage to more than 20 grams per day. I've also added high potency vitamin K2. Getting lp(a) under 10 begins to seem impossible.


Welcome back.

What is your total cholesterol?

What are the Lp(a) units, and are you sure they were measured (and not calculated)?

Here is what we think we know.

#1 - vitamin K will reduce calcification (hard arteries) by moving calcium from soft tissue into bones. But to my knowledge. vitamin K has nothing to do with Lp(a). At least no known direct relationship.

#2. High vitamin C can keep your Lp(a) from rising, but prior knowledge was that it can reduce Lp(a) at most 30%, on the order of Niacin. Note: Statin cholesterol drugs INCREASE circulating Lp(a). Are you taking a statin?

#3. Lysine, and especially proline are the keys to actually lowering Lp(a) close to zero. Unfortunately, the period is unknown, some time within 18 months.

Sorry you read misinformation on other web sites. If you jump down to the doctors section of our new FAQ page, http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/faq.php you'll read the various opinions that vitamin C is a treatment for (not the cause of) iron overload.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Cleveland lab lp(a) results

Post Number:#5  Post by gmdodaro » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:18 pm

Thanks, Owen.
I've been taking roughly 2500-3000 mg l-lysine daily since I read your book sometime in late 2014.
Added 1000-1500 mg l-proline early 2015
My total cholesterol runs 175 - 190
HDL 90-95
LDL 75-80
Not taking a statin, though my cardiologist has recommended it, even though he admits my cholesterol numbers are fine.
The Cleveland Lab results don't indicate whether the lp(a) results were counted or calculated. The units are mg/dL.

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Re: Cleveland lab lp(a) results

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:07 am

Your total cholesterol looks perfect :) This indicates to me that your vitamin C intake is close to optimal.

What is the range for the Cleveland Clinic Lp(a) scale? :) (Back in the beginning, Linus said that any Lp(a) over 20 mg/dl would be dangerous in that it would lead to plaque in the arteries. And do they mention size of the lp(a) particle?

The larger, the less "dangerous" the Lp(a). So total weight doesn't mean that much, especially at your levels, if the particles are big. (One reason the VAP adjusts to the weight of the same number of LDL particles..And why current tests use nmol/l - another measure of the number of particles, rather than simply weight which can be misleading.

So your scores seem good, especially considering what you have been through Please check in the next time your Lp(a) is tested while you are on the proline. We will be curious.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Cleveland lab lp(a) results

Post Number:#7  Post by gmdodaro » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:59 am

The Cleveland lab lp(a) score doesn't include any information about particle size. The upper end of the "normal" range is 30 mg/dL. Besides getting hepatitis C viral load down to undetectable range for five months, I have also seen big drop in atrial fibrillation episodes. The a-fib was my only tangible symptom of heart disease, but it got bad when the hepatitis C flared up and my iron went so high. I was having a-fib every day or two last December. Now I have had only three episodes since January. I am going to have another EBT scan sometime later this year to see if the coronary calcium is still going up. It doubled from 225 to 555 between 2011 and 2104. Also at your recommendation, I started supplementing with vitamin K in December 2014 and increased the dosage to about 50 mg per day after reading this site for a while: http://www.k-vitamins.com/ . This doc also recommends high dosage: http://www.antiagingmedicine.com/frank-shallenberger


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