Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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DVatt
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Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#1  Post by DVatt » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:10 am

Hi - Though this may seem long, I will attempt to be brief.

Live in U.S., 58/old, Male, ok weight - though 5-10# over. Non smoker & drinker. Never had high blood pressure. No symptoms of heart issues, no swelling, no pain. Modified Paleo eater (a little dairy, butter ok) very little sugar, carbs. Walk 2 miles 2-3 week. One of those very "lucky" people that never get sick, never had the flu, no broken bones, etc. Does NOT believe in flu shots, big pharma or RX of any kind. Family history of high LDL and Lp(a) - DNA test confirms.

Calcium score test in 2010 equaled 225. Calcium score test in 2015 (just completed) shows 668 (moving on up!). Recent blood work shows Lp(a) at 106, LDL - 226, HDL -41, Tri - 147. Apo B-100 172, VLDL - 101 All other blood work (glucose, sodium, potassium, etc.) within normal range.

NO inflammation - C-reactive - normal, PLAC-test - normal.

So, my holistic cardiologist says something like, "... well, aren't you an odd duck and an anomaly!" Low probability of heart issues on one hand and very high on another!

As a result of my somewhat catastrophic calcium score and high Lp(a), I started taking these items:

Vitamin C 1,000 mg tablet (slow release)
Arginine (l-arginine) 1,000 mg (twice a day)
Vitamin B12-Oral Liquid
Vitamin D3 2,000 unit capsule
Fish Oil (Dr. Tobias Omega 3)
Magnesium- 300 mg
MK-7 Vit. K 90 mg
Niacin (Slo Niacin) 1500 mg
Garlic (Garlinase 5000 mcg)

Ok - that's it. I plan on taking another complete blood test in October. Hope to see the Lp(a) drop to 50(?) and regular LDL drop as well. Another calcium scan in 2 years.

Thoughts? Ideas? Am I doing over-kill here? What am I leaving out?

Thanks in advance. I trust you people far more than the pill pushing doctors and RX makers!

Johnwen
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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:42 pm

From your description it sounds like you have a case of ,” Homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia!”

Here’s a link for you to read up on it! Of course since it’s mainstream medical so their going to say Statin’s will cure this but it won’t!!
I talked about this on this thread viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12011&p=40740#p40740

If you lower your LDL your LP(a) will rise even further then you have some real problems!

Here’s the link to Web MD!

http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-manage ... sterolemia


So what can you do???

The best you can do at this point is to start taking L-Lysine or Purchase Cardio C or heart Tech which gives you a good % of L-Lysine.
Or if you prefer you can purchase just some L-Lysine Pills or Tablets.
Since your not all that high on LP(a) try to shoot for around 3000mg. a day! The top on supplementing with L-Lysine is 6000Mg. Since your body gets some from food and produces it’s own naturally!

The reason for this is L-Lysine is a binding inhibitor of LP(a). Which means the LP(a) latch’s on to it and doesn’t let go. It then gets carried out through the liver.
So if you do have a problem inside your arteries the damaged tissue will not attract this element and reduce your chances of a blockage. LP(a) has an affinity for dead tissue and is the first step in arthrosclerosis. L-Lysine looks just like dead tissue in the body and when the LP(a) catches it does it’s job of getting rid of it.

Other then that you should be on a min. of 3000mg. Of vitamin C per day More is better because this is what keeps the cells in the arteries strong! In your case it appears the cells are not eating their share of the fats which what give’s them structure and they maybe just hanging in their as best they can and need all the help they can get!


Hope this helps!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

blade

Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#3  Post by blade » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:58 pm

You sound like my brother in law. Hope the lpa drops fast

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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:20 am

Sorry for the late response and thanks to johnwen - ditto.

Your approach to life (lack of medications) and diet appear sound, even wonderful. You have simply succumbed to a genetic deficiency that all of humanity suffers. (The reason for this web site.) Most people aren't aware of how different we human beings are from the other species. We cannot make our own vitamin C and thus must eat it. Virtually all other species who have survived to present day make their own vitamin C - 24/7 and in amounts adjusted for body weight that are estimated to be 3,000 to 13,000 mg (although the goat makes a lot more, and perhaps over 100,000 mg when under stress.)

So the answer in your case to bring you to optimal health is to find out how much vitamin C your tissues can metabolize on a daily basis. The number for you depends on various factors, and will be different for everyone. There is no one answer to "how much vitamin C should I take."

Over the years, I have postulated (after talking to countless souls over the phone and asking about their prior vitamin C intake) that 10,000 mg of ascorbic acid daily is totally protective of cardiovascular disease. (Might there be exceptions, sure, but of all those people who called us with heart problems, all were taking far less than 10,000 mg, and most less than 5,000 mg daily. The therapeutic dose that people found then reversed their condition was usually about 6,000 mg of vitamin C and 5,000 to 6,000 mg of lysine. Thus if you can reach 10,000 mg daily, you should be in the "safe" range for 95% of the population, and in theory, because of your diet, you should absorb more and thus require less vitamin C.)

For help with determing your personal dosage, you should read this paper by Cathcart, http://vitamincfoundation.org/pdfs/Vitamin_C_Dosage_in_Disease.pdf and note that Russell Jaffee has a calibration method that might help you ascertain how much vitamin C you require.

We also know that once your arteries become hard (show calcium on these FAST-CT Scans) it can take as long as a year for the score to lower, and that adding additional vitamin K (e.g. a Super-K tablet daily from LEF.ORG) is important to move the calcium from soft tissues into bone.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

DVatt
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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#5  Post by DVatt » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:27 am

Thanks so much for the feedback Owen and Johnwen - I do appreciate it!

I feel much better after having done additional research and with your feedback, I think I have a plan. I will work my way up to a C daily dosage of 4,000-6,000 and lysine of 3,000 to 4,000. My amounts are a bit lower than as I tend to have a diet higher in meat, nuts and (good) fats.

I am taking another detailed blood test later in September and will be curious as to what it shows - I will post it here. I will wait until early 2017 (2 years) before another heart calcium scan - that one should be interesting as well.

What you guys (and gals) are doing here is great by-the-way; educating, comforting and advising people on the correct way to live and combat disease. It's ironic (and sad) that now, with my studying of Lp(a) and heart issues (I actually read the available studies), I probably now know more than 90% of the cardiologists out there! Though I certainly don't make what they make. :(

Lastly, I would like to add a small tidbit of advice of my own to the group. One simple thing I have done every morning after I wake up (before coffee or anything else) is to drink a large glass of water (16+ ounces) - and then stay well hydrated for the rest of the day. Since our bodies are mostly water, we need plenty of it to absorb all this great advice. :)

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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:46 am

Thanks for the water advice - you are wise. I just discovered this "water miracle" from another forum conversation, and in my case, my constant morning blood sugar dropped immediately by 15/20 points, literally over night. So I had instant feedback on the value of this simple protocol. It is likely that I will be on your suggestion, probably for the rest of my life!

Noted on you now knowing more about heart disease (at least what causes it) than your cardiologist. There is no way around the fact that if what we post here daily, is well known and tried around the planet, the typical cardiologist will be looking for another speciality or line of work. Its part of the problem. But the other side of the coin is the number of people suffering and needlessly dying. (I once heard that the magnitude of deaths from medical medication errors is on the order of a 747 crashing every day.. The 700,000 who suffer and/or die from heart disease annually is a lot more than merely one daily 747 plane crash.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#7  Post by Montmorency » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:44 pm

May I piggy back on this thread please, to ask about vitamin K (K2).

Which form (MK-4 or MK-7) do people recommend?
(and reasons for, if possible).

I have seen conflicting recommendations elsewhere.

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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#8  Post by DVatt » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:59 am

Hi Montmorency -

I use the Super K from Life Extension. Their website is here: http://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-S ... K2-Complex

It seems to have all of the necessary ingredients for a vitamin K supplement. And I agree with the conflicting advice - it's a jungle out there! :) But just try and read the reviews by real people, if possible, and try and stay away from cheaper products. These are usually made in China and one doesn't know what they might be adding to them.

blade

Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#9  Post by blade » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:47 am

DVatt wrote:Hi - Though this may seem long, I will attempt to be brief.

Live in U.S., 58/old, Male, ok weight -
Thoughts? Ideas? Am I doing over-kill here? What am I leaving out?

Thanks in advance. I trust you people far more than the pill pushing doctors and RX makers!


what's "ok weight? why not share your weight with us?
what's your bodyfat?

more importantly, what is your total minestrone and estrogen?
hormone replacement, more testosterone does lower Lpa
more important than a high testosterone is a low estrogen reading, preferably 20-30pg/ml
and then a testosterone at least 500ng/dl, enough to get a T/E ratio of 30+

example
Testostrone 600
estrogen 25
then 600/25=24

so you might want to boost T a little, or reduce E or nothing, based on how you feel etc
but get it checked out and see what your T and E are at, especially the Estradiol

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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#10  Post by Montmorency » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:36 pm

DVatt wrote:Hi Montmorency -

I use the Super K from Life Extension. Their website is here: http://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-S ... K2-Complex

It seems to have all of the necessary ingredients for a vitamin K supplement. And I agree with the conflicting advice - it's a jungle out there! :) But just try and read the reviews by real people, if possible, and try and stay away from cheaper products. These are usually made in China and one doesn't know what they might be adding to them.


Many thanks @DVatt.

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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#11  Post by DVatt » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:44 pm

Just an update on my blood work - results are in!

BEFORE (AUG 2015): Lp(a) at 106, LDL - 226, HDL -41, Tri - 147. Apo B-100 172, VLDL - 101 All other blood work (glucose, sodium, potassium, etc.) within normal range.

TODAY (MAR 2016): Lp(a) at 64 (40% reduction), LDL - 167 (26% reduction), HDL -50 (22% increase), Tri - 106 (28% reduction) Apo B-100 134 (22% reduction) VLDL - 74 (27% reduction).

All of this without the use of Statins or a Cardiologist :) The amazing reduction here is the Lp(a) at 40%. As most of you know, Statins do not decrease Lp(a) - as a matter of fact, they may increase it. Though there is a new "injection" that is suppose to lower Lp(a), the results and corresponding side-effects are unknown. I have had no side-effects to my supplement regime - and my blood work for my liver /kidneys is ok.

Additionally, my research continues into Lp(a) and vitamin C - as it relates to my high calcium score. I encourage all that want to know the correlation between Lp(a) and how it relates to CVD and what the lack of vitamin C does to your body - here is a link: http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2016/02/21 ... e-part-vi/

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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#12  Post by ofonorow » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:11 am

Thank you for the update. Sounds good. Remind us of your current supplement regimen - especially vitamin C and lysine. Thank you.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#13  Post by DVatt » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:55 am

As a result of my somewhat catastrophic calcium score and high Lp(a), I started taking these items:

Vitamin C 1,000 mg tablet (slow release)
Though I increased that to 4,000 per day about 4 mo. ago.
Arginine (l-arginine) 1,000 mg (twice a day)
Vitamin B12-Oral Liquid
Vitamin D3 2,000 unit capsule
Fish Oil (Dr. Tobias Omega 3)
Magnesium- 300 mg (twice a day)
MK-7 Vit. K 90 mg
Niacin (Slo Niacin) 1500 mg
Garlic (Garlinase 5000 mcg)

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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#14  Post by ofonorow » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:25 am

Interesting. So no lysine or proline?
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Am I Unusual? Need Opinions!

Post Number:#15  Post by hvc » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:18 pm

As stated by Johnwen "If you lower your LDL your LP(a) will rise even further then you have some real problems!"
Is this universally true? Since starting the Pauling Therapy (and taking plant sterols) my cholesterol has gone down and my lp(a) has risen minimally. I have been doing the therapy for about 3 months. current cholesterol is 154. ldl 91 and hdl 49. Isn't vit c supposed to lower lp(a).


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