Controlling Diabetes - Quick Success with PT

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Controlling Diabetes - Quick Success with PT

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:11 am

Here is a case of a gentleman successfully controlling his diabetes who experienced spectacular success with Pauling's therapy (quick relief of angina). He is worried that his blood sugar seems to have increased from 83 mg/dl to 93 mg/dl since he began the therapy. I will copy some of this (his glucose meter readings) to other relevant posts.

Dear Mr Fonorow,

I'm a 74 yr old male caucasian.

I'm controlling T2 Diabetes with diet and exercise. I am successful at maintaining fasting BG at 83 mg/dl and under 100 mg/dl after meals.

I just began using the Dr Pauling's protocol for heart disease because I have angina. It works for me, and very quickly - no pain after 3 days on the protocol - bowel tolerance levels of Vit C.- 10gms/day, 6gms Lysine, 1gm Proline.

On the morning of 8/25/2015 my FG read 93 mg/dl after 3 days using the Pauling Therapy.

I carried out your recommended "experiment" on the meter to check if it read Vit C as glucose. (1gm Ascorbic Acid dissolved in 1 quart water).

The reading was 173 gm/dl.

Q. Can I conclude that my meter is reading my blood glucose at 11% higher because of the Ascorbic acid and if so use that fact to interpret my actual glucose response to be 83 gm/dl.

If that is the case can I reduce all my readings by 11% on the TRUEtest meter to monitor my glucose levels?

I could not find any recent references to this issue in the forum.


Thank You


You mention TRUEtest, please confirm exactly what glucose meter you are using. (If this meter is so accurate that you reliably get 83 mg/dl every day, then I want to start using your meter! The Abbott Labs FreeStyle Lite meter I am using is varies by 5 to 10 mg/dl)

Controlling angina after only 3 days is 7 days ahead of schedule. Congrats. ( I am all ears how your are controlling your blood sugar so well. Please share).

As a review, here is what we think we know:

Your kidneys regulate the blood concentration of vitamin C to a steady state maximum of 1.5 mg/dl. And the half life of vitamin C in the blood is 30 minutes.

Consider that your normal glucose level is 83 mg/dl, so that even if your steady state blood levels of vitamin C are as high as 2 or 3 mg/dl of vitamin C - it is a small fraction of your glucose, and should not (in theory) interfere, either upon waking (fasting glucose) or several hours after your vitamin C intake.​

You seem to be reporting a 10 mg/dl rise after 3 days. The question is whether this is caused by the vitamin C levels now in your blood, correct? (How much vitamin C, if any, were you supplementing previously?) At a minimum, you want to take your regular glucose measurements before taking the vitamin C, or at least 2 hours after taking your previous dosage.

Since you had great success w/Pauling's protocol, I suspect you are following Dynamic Flow - frequent lower dosages throughout the day - which may maintain a higher steady state than 1.5 mg/dl. If this is the case,
you would have to adjust your glucose readings to account for your "round the clock"high vitamin C intake. (But I honestly don't understand how an extra 1.5 mg/dl in your blood - say 1 mg/dl extra, can account for a 10 mg/dl fasting glucose reading.... hmmmm... Maybe your supposition is correct, and your meter greatly over states ascorbic acid. )

I think the relevant previous posts are

The Bioavailability of Vitamin C
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11944
(starting several pages in you will find the graphs of our glucose meter measurements. I would appreciate your comments on our experiments).

The older and original forum post on glucose meters reading ascorbate:
Crude Vitamin C blood measurements with a Glucose meter
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10603

As you might notice from our graphs - either the IV or the one-time gulp, the blood glucose meter reading while elevated, quickly returns close to normal after an hour or so.

Please stay in touch. If 93 mg/dl is persistent then something else we don't understand is going on!

Thank you for this report and I look forward to your clarifications.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Controlling Diabetes - Quick Success with PT

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:58 am

Hello Again Mr Fonorow

Here are links to the meter and test strips that I use....IMO it is an "El Cheapo" meter that I purchased from Amazon about 2 years ago. I bought the meter because the test strips are the cheapest that I could find - about $20 incl. postage for 100 strips. I use a lot of them.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=true+test+meter

http://www.amazon.com/Truetest-Test-Strips-50-Count/dp/B0054EOU6C/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A16IA4EA8I58CV

Even though it is a cheap meter I have had accurate results from Day 1-tested against my other, older meter.

I have not always had a FG of 83 mg/dl nor the relative consistency that I now enjoy.
My good results are achieved by diet and 600mg/day of Alpha Lipoic Acid to guard against neuropathy.

I was diagnosed with T2 diabetes in 2006. I did not exercise good control and I began to deteriorate.
I got serious and read many,many diabetes books and papers.

I finally found "Dr Richard Bernstein's Diabetes Solution - The complete guide to achieving normal blood sugars" ( Amazon). I adhere strictly to his protocols. Being human there has been some "slippage"; the excursions being in the order of 126mg/dl.

I have customized my diet - each person aught to do the same - just read the book - it is a big,detailed read!

Dr Bernstein practices in NYC. He has a couple of websites and a monthly webcast. It goes for an hour and is free. For me, his info. is invaluable.

http://www.askdrbernstein.com/

http://www.diabetes-book.com/

I don't think that I could take 10 gms Vit C at one time without getting Diarrhea -

My current regimen is 2gms at 7am, 3gms at 11.00am, 2gms at 3pm and 7pm and 1gm at pm - total 10gms.
This schedule varies with changes in bowel tolerance.

I could probably do the 40 pricks in 40 minutes.

I noticed tonight's reading was 86 mg/dl - 2hours after the 3pm Vit C.

Yes, I get a reliable reading every day and there is some little variance - between 1-3 mg/dl.

I did not think my simple question would generate so much interest!

My diet almost never changes so for the moment I'll go with the supposition that my meter is reading 11% higher because of the Vit C.

In any case my priority is to clear my arteries! I use the method from your book "Practicing Medicine without a license"

BTW one week ago at work I had to take 4 Nitrostat tabs for angina...not all at once of course!

Since I'm back on the Vit C etc...no pain.

I admit to being a "slacker"...I was on the Pauling Therapy some time ago but when the pain went away and I could actually walk 22 blocks without a problem I figured I was cured....wrong guess!

Best Regards



I consumed my morning Vit C after my FG reading....I was thinking that the higher FG was caused by residual Vit C from the night before.

I use Swanson's Vitamin C powder as Ascorbic Acid in 1lb container.

When I took the test measurement it was to find out whether the meter actually read Vitamin C in H2O solution. I confirm 1gm in one quart of water as per the info in the forum.

It was the test solution that read 173mg/dl...not my blood.
I expected something like this reading if I had a reasonably good meter.

I hope this helps


Thanks for clarifying. I thought 173 mg/dl was your blood reading! Makes sense and yes, it does seem to indicate that your meter is able to read ascorbate like the Abbott Labs FreeStyle Lite. I use a lot of test strips too :D , so if the TrueTest is more accurate and cheaper! Win Win. And thanks for the diabetes info. (I look forward to reading the book.)

You are following an excellent "dynamic flow" protocol, spreading vitamin C throughout the day. So your blood levels of vitamin C are probably excellent and as high as possible. Thus the 86 mg/dl is a possible reading for the expected 83 mg/dl given that the meter, reading ascorbate, is calculating as if it is measuring glucose - a larger molecule than vitamin C. (I am looking forward to trying this meter and perhaps calibrating it.)

It is interesting that you use ascorbic acid. Also, I note your stopping the Pauling therapy after the pain went away. This is common, and the reason we wrote the book. To caution people that until science re engineers our DNA to fix the GULO defect (and we start making vitamin C out of glucose) if they have a high requirement for vitamin C, it will not diminish over time. Thanks for the reminder.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Controlling Diabetes - Quick Success with PT

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:05 am

I'm happy to help.

I'll do the "gulp and stick" with 5gms Ascorbic Acid in the near future and let you know the detailed results.
If that gives me no diahorrea then I might give 10gms a shot.

One thing: The recording of the glucose reading will take a few seconds to register on the meter and over 40 "sticks" this will be a cumulative error. I'll try and compensate by inserting the test strip and sticking my finger a little earlier and drawing the blood into the strip by capillary action about 3 secs before the 1 minute deadline. My guess is that I will be as busy as two cats fighting in a bag!

Thanks for telling me why I need to keep taking Vit C regardless of having no pain. My bad!....but I'm being good now! I'm re-reading your book. In fact I think it a good idea for me to use it as a reference text the same as I do Dr Bernstein's book.

Still no pain ... walking and general activity is good

Best Regards


I am trying to understand this one phrase

over 40 "sticks" this will be a cumulative error.


I am not sure what you mean.

On my meter it takes about 15 seconds for the reading, so that we have at least 30 seconds to pull the test strip out, put the new one in and get ready to prick again.

Also, if you prick exactly on the minute... you can take the reading shortly after that. The prick every minute is important.

Good luck and thanks!
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Controlling Diabetes - Quick Success with PT

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:35 am

Hold on! Please don't stick you fingers with that meter!

TrueResult is the name of the product, correct?

I ordered a TrueResult from the link you provided, and just ran a 15 minutes experiment comparing its reading with my Abbott Labs Freestyle lite glucose meter.

Without vitamin C, the meters agreed, almost to the unit what my glucose was.

After gulping 10 grams of vitamin C as ascorbic acid - the TrueResult didn't budge (which in one sense is a credit to its design - only reading changes in glucose!)

However, the Abbott Labs increased by 40 points.

I'll have to rethink your calibration but normally we'd want 100 or so mgs per liter, and you used, what, 1000 mg for the calibraton?

My guess that your blood sugar reading is changing, but not because of the vitamin C in your blood, per se, (because your reader can't measure it). It is a fairly minor change in glucose from some other effect.

As an aside, if you have been following the forum conversation between myself and johnwen, you'd see how hydrating in the morning - a water protocol - immediately dropped my blood sugar by 15/20 points. I'm not sure what I am more amazed at - how fast ascorbic acid enters the blood stream, or the "water cure" for high blood sugars!
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Controlling Diabetes - Quick Success with PT

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:16 am

Owen, I'm not certain that I agree with that assessment of the meter in my case.
The meter does measure my BG accurately-which is what I want and need. It has been a reliable instrument for me for about 2 years.
I do believe that you are correct in thinking something else is going on. My FG this morning was 105 mg/dl....normally 83 mg/dl.

I titrate to BT which is 3gm Vit C every 4 hours including through the night when I can : IE when I wake to go to the bathroom. I record the times as well to keep a record of dosage regularity

Subsequent readings so far today have been 87.91.90,91 93,83. I have taken these readings while still dosing myself with Vit C,Lysine,proline etc
.
However, no food because I practice intermittent fasting and eat only one meal per day - at circa 4.00pm each day. I have been doing this for about a year - my own idea based on my research.

I began the "water cure" regimen today - 642 mls in the am and nothing to eat or drink for 45 mins.

Fitting in my Vit C dosages requires a bit of finessing but I can cope.

After 45 mins I consumed 500mls tea with full cream ..no milk or 1/2 n 1/2 because of the lactose.
Two and half hrs later 500 mls coffee with cream. I have been doing this for years.
This is all that I take throughout the day except for water and the water containing my Vit c dose - until 4.00 pm.

My current thinking is along these lines:
http://chriskresser.com/intermittent-fa ... ood-sugar/

Now I don't agree with everything on this site but the cortisol connection makes some sense to me.

My FG and subsequent BG readings have been taken after coming off a very stressful weekend work load and I'm guessing that my adrenals and hormones are "all over the shop" because of out of whack circadian rhythms etc.


I posted what I found to be surprising data as currently the last post (post #81)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11944
Bioavaliability of Vitamin C

The meters agree - until the Abbott meter starts measuring my 10 grams of ascorbic acid - the TrueResult meter doesn't, although it rose a couple of points. (Actually this helps prove that we are not somehow spiking glucose)

I'm not questioning your meter and was happy to see they agree when there is no extra ascorbate in my system.

It looks like your calibration was 10 times the concentration that measured ascorbate during your calibration. (I am going to redo this - now that I have both meters.)

If you meter is not sensitive to smaller amounts of ascorbate, one idea is that the liver helps regulate blood sugar, so a theory might be that the vitamin C and lysine have interfered slightly with the regulation of glucagon. It is pretty amazing that when your sugar goes LOW during the night, the liver releases glucose into the blood stream to normalize it.

By the way, Bernstein's book is terrific. Thank you.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year


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