Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:25 am

Owen,

Thank you for the reply. Here is the deal. I have not used the Heart tech product for a long time. I spoke with you years ago about my wife and her type 1 diabetes and plaque issues. She died a few years ago from congestive heart failure. We had no insurance so I got skinned financially and actually had to do a short sale on the home. Money has been tight and I could not afford the product but I sure wish I had stayed with it. She did not tolerate the Heart Tech well with constant bowel issues from neuropathy.

No, I am not one of those that felt better and stopped taking the product. It was a money issue as I stated. I am a total believer in the entire concept. I remember you telling me you developed the heart Tech product.

I am 63 and extremely healthy. I have been running all my life and also weights. Never sick. The only issue is a low HDL in my family and my very healthy uncle had a quad by pass at age 58. Just a problem genetically. My cholesterol has been a little over 200 and the HDL around 30. I started feeling a burning sensation behind my sternum when I ran and had to stop periodically. Also when I work outside with heavy stuff. My endurance is great but the burning is a problem. My doctor is a close friend and suggested that I have a nuclear stress test. It showed abnormalities and I met with the cardiac specialist and he set up a heart catheter through the wrist this past Monday. I met with the surgeon today and he showed me the video and it has one artery at an 85 to 90% blockage and two more with less blockage. I can't do a stent because I am highly allergic to aspirin but he strongly suggested the by pass.

This is a really big deal and I am considering taking the chance and get on your suggested regimen to clean it up. I am scared and worried and could really use a phone conversation, please? Really huge decision. Please call if you can. Thank you.

Ken


I no longer get in the phone, and I couldn't help you make this decision anyway. After reading Thomas Levy's book STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER (Levy was a board certified cardiologist) you would begin to understand that there are cases where the by-pass is the best course of action. ( Levy thinks, like us, that the problem can be avoided in the first place by using vitamin C, but you are not at the avoidance/prevention stage. Aside: As cheap as vitamin C and lysine can be, you were aware of Pauling's theory, so economics is no excuse.)

You are now in the position of seeking a reversal of cardiovascular disease, something Linus Pauling himself thought possible, but per Levy, the risk has increased.

If it were me, if I were facing this situation, and this is my opinion if I faced heart bypass surgery under the diagnosis you shared, I would try to delay the surgery for 60 to 90 days, and see if I could reverse the blockages.

To do this, I would focus on
a) vitamin C and lysine (and proline) and
b) vitamin K (mostly K2).

I would review the recommendations in Chapter 7 of our book, (Free download http://practicingmedicinewithoutalicense.com/protocol/) which builds on the Foundation of Linus Pauling's basic recommendations in HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER.

johnwen here at our forum is an medical expert and has seen people in this situation his entire career. He may have some insights for you.
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:01 am

Like Owen said K2!

Lysine steady dosing over the day to 6000Mg. Per day!

V-C to bowel tolerance if BT is under 10,000Mg. Break it down to smaller doses over the course of the day (Example 1500mg every 2 hours) Min 10,000 Mg. over the course of the day!

L-carnitine 500Mg. Twice a day!

L-Arginine 500mg. Three times a day!

Niacin 2- 500 Mg. at bedtime! Slo-Niacin (available at most big box stores) is my preferred type!

If they have you on Beta-Blockers Drugs whose generic name ends in -OLOL
Example; Metoprolol , Carvedilol, Propranolol, etc. (these are the common ones)
You need to get off these! But don’t just stop! You have to come off them slowly! Best to talk to your doc about this! He might be against it but their doing more harm then good at this point!

Then talk to him about Nitrates also to relax the arteries! When there is a build up in the coronary artery’s they tend to constrict making matters worse by reducing the blood flow even further.
Nitrates relax the artery’s giving more room for the blood to get pass the blockage.
Isosorbide mononitrate which is a extended release Nitro pill given 2x a day works best in controlling this!

Remember this has a pretty good percentage of working however it depends on what stage the build up is in and the type of build up as while as what the initial insult was caused by.
If you are experiencing severe symptoms a by-pass maybe the only option. When you talk to the surgeon let him know that you would prefer him to use a mammary artery and avoid using the saphenous vein if possible! Since using a vein for a bypass has it’s own set of problems down the road!
Look up “Neointimal-hyperplasia!”

Good Luck and I wish you the BEST!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#3  Post by RoFo » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:29 pm

Owen's brother, the phone guy for the Foundation, here.

Just want to thank Owen, Johnwen, and all the rest, for the excellent advice and free work done here... if you guys only knew about all the lives you've saved, you'd likely be insufferable and need a special brace for the swelled heads! I get a few tearful calls every week... so thanks from Ken and ALL the rest of them.

It's easy to "let it slide" when you feel okay... believe me, I know. But thanks.

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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#4  Post by Runner63 » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:13 pm

Thank you to Owen and John for the information and especially taking the time to answer. Greatly appreciated. I am now responding to Johnwen.

I was put on metoprolol (only on for 4 days). What is the issue with that drug? Also the generic for Imdur (Isosorbide MN ER 60mg) so I do have the Nitrate. It says half for a week and then 1 once a day. Is it better when at full dose in a week to break it in 2 and take it twice a day? The Cardio C and extra Vit. C is in transit from Robert and I have stocked up on the rest of the supplements. I will get 5 grams of C and also 5G of lysine from the cadio C and also ordered the Worlds Finest C as well for the other 5G per day.

He did say the mammary artery would be used.

My symptoms are modest. I am 5'-10", 175 and always fit all my life. Steady exercise but not fanatical at age 63. I was running up until about 6 months ago but still weights and core exercises on the floor (push ups, crunches, kettle bell swings, planks and more). The reason all of this is a surprise is it appeared to be the slight hiatal hernia (diagnosed in May) that was the burning cause behind the sternum. It started when I was running for a while and then started when lying down sleeping. I got up a few times a few months ago at night with the burn and almost went to the ER. I was also not belching at all even after soda. I tried nexium and after 4 days I "never" felt it again lying down but only when I exerted myself a lot such as running pick ups or heavy yard work. With the weights and core work, nothing at all. Endurance is great. It's not like I am wearing out and can't go on. Just the opposite. Stamina is very good, just the burn. During the nuclear stress test I felt really good. Started modest for 3 minutes, faster for 3 and then a fast walk. After 2 minutes I felt fine except for the burning got strong. No acid reflux at all, ever.

I have decided to wait on the surgery unless I start to feel more than the occasional burn from exertion. I will load up on all that you guys suggest and also want to get 10 pounds off. They also started me on Atorvastatin. I have L-arginine, Slo Niacin, super B complex, K2, Co Q 10, zinc, fish oil and magnesium.

Thanks again for the help. Appreciated more than I can say.

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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#5  Post by Johnwen » Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:11 am

On the Imdur 60mg.

The efficacy( how long it works) of this drug is right around eight hours. The book say’s 6-8 hours with the extended efficacy at 12 hours after that it’s done and gone!
So Yes cutting it in half would give you 30mg. I believe these pills are scribed (they have a cut line) So taking a half pill is acceptable!

A little note on these pills, I’ve heard some complaints from patients that these pills, since their rather thick, shatter when trying to cut them with a pill cutter! If you have this problem! Carefully cut them with a sharp knife rather then a pill cutter!

Given your body size 30mg. Would be sufficient and was my first thought when I first read your first post thru Owen!
So Half a 60mg. Every 12 hours would be the way to go!

On the Beta Blockers! Metoprolol

Beta blocker do two things the slow the heart rate and reduce the contraction force of the heart! Which means they make you heart lazy! The idea here is by making the heart less forceful it will require less nourishment and less blood flow so there is less demands and the lower blood flow due to the blockage can satisfy it’s needs.
Which all sounds good however this type of action on any muscle means it gets weaker and less able to do it’s job. In the heart this is called Heart Failure! I won’t go into details on this condition, you can search it out, I will say it ain’t GOOD!

When you have a blockage forming you want to make it’s environment as adverse as possible! So it won’t get bigger! To do this you need to get as much blood flow over blockage as possible which in turn prevents the blood from lingering around and depositing any further building materials on the blockage. Down wind from the blockage higher velocity equals increased volume which means more nourishment getting to the cells after the blockage which equals less pain because the cells are satisfied.
Now ask yourself this question! If you have to go in for bypass surgery do you want your body in the best possible shape as possible or do you want to go in with weak, floppy muscles?
Your heart is a muscle and the target of the surgery! Do you want it to be strong or weak and failing?????
This drug has it’s place in medicine however when the heart doesn’t show any signs of muscle weakness or excessive strength to start with this is not the drug of choice for a person with a blockage and no present abnormalities!

I hear the questions on excessive strength of the heart!
This is usually referred to as cardiac hypertrophy.
This term has a couple of meanings some refer to the breakdown of the muscle which then tries to rebuild itself and the walls of the heart get thicker causing a reduction of capacity. This happens for seemingly unknown reasons but sedentary lifestyle is a factor!! Beta Blockers in this case will actually cause worsting symptoms of Heart Failure!

The other is when the heart has to carry an excess load such as when the aortic valve get’s a stenosis. Which is the valve gets a build up on it. Since this is a slow process that takes years to get to the point where it can be a problem.
However during this build up period the heart is pumping every second, now as the valve gets more and more resistance on it the heart has to compensate by pushing the blood out against this resistance. Yep! Just like resistance training or weight lifting it starts getting stronger. However the heart can only grow more muscle inward and more muscle means less capacity which then must be compensated for with faster beats this goes on to the point where the muscle begins to breakdown! All lifting and No Rest = muscle Failure!
Now the valve gets fixed or replaced and the heart will take off pounding away!

Enter Beta Blockers they slow the heart and reduce it’s force which equals REST! Rest means the heart can remove the unneeded tissue and return to a healthy state with increased capacity and eventually return to normal function!
So there is an example of where beta blockers are needed and if your not experiencing any of the above symptoms I have doubts that you need this type of drug!

Sorry for the length of this however I wanted to show you both the good and the bad of this type of drug! It has it place but not for everybody!

Hope this helps!
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research!

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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:08 am

Regarding the cleveland clinic post. First hand testimonials are appreciated, so if you yourself feel that you have benefited, either after a heart attack of CVD diagnosis, that is one thing. But if you are simply pushing what seem like good ideas, a short synopsis and the link are adequate.

Buried in runner63's post were these words!


I tried nexium


Please tell us that you are now off Nexium, a so-called "proton pump inhibitor!" Know that one bad outcome (of many bad outcomes) from turning off stomach acid is losing the ability to absorb vitamin C.

If your throat (esophagus) burns taking Cardio-C - you should feel comfortable following Linus Pauling's lead, and adding some sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) to the drink. This will turn some of the ascorbic acid into sodium ascorbate. (After I began experiencing GERD-like symtoms, I began taking my vitamin C as about 40% sodium ascorbate and 60% ascorbic acid.) I describe how I think I cured my GERD in this post http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11177.

Since it is the lower esophagus (not the stomach) that is burning, another idea is to purchase a kit from a health food store to make your own capsules. This way you can put vitamin C (cardio-C) with ascorbic acid in gelatin capsules - that should protect your throat on the way down.
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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#7  Post by Runner63 » Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:24 pm

Owen,

Thanks for the information on the beta blockers. About 9 months ago when i first started to notice the burning behind my sternum it was limited to when I ran or when I seriously exerted myself. It soon started to burn while lying down at night and a few times I got up from the severity. Since I was not experiencing any endurance issues like a heart problem, I tried Nexium and the burning while lying down stopped in 4 days and has never come back.

The endoscope showed a slight hiatal hernia in May and I have been on a generic Pantoprozole. I still feel the burn when I try to run and felt it pretty strong during the fast part of the stress test. However, no acid reflux at all, ever. Just the burn with exertion.

I should receive the Cardio C Tuesday (tomorrow) and will stop with the beta blocker tonight since that is when I take it.

Grateful for the information from everyone.

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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#8  Post by Runner63 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:23 am

Correction on my last reply to Owen. I will immediately stop the proton pump inhibitor. I called it a beta blocker in error. Got a million names on my mind with all of this. Thank you all!!!

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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#9  Post by 89826 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:19 pm

blade, can't quite tell if you are genuinely curious or want to argue. Plaques are composed of fat and cholesterol.

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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#10  Post by ofonorow » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:19 am

We split the interesting discussion on oils to this topic: (I hope :) )
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12087
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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#11  Post by Runner63 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:19 pm

Got a few questions.

I started with the Cardio C and worlds finest Vitamin C powder. 2 scoops of the cardio c and an extra 5 grams of the powder giving me 10 grams of C and 5 grams of lysine. Also from the comments on this blog and the Pauling information 12 page pdf Owen suggested, L-arginine, Slo Niacin, Super B Complex, K2, Co Q 10, Zinc, Magnesium, melatonin, all in recommended doses from you guys.

Dosing. Johnwen suggested taking the lysine in small doses throughout the day. I am taking 2 scoops per day of the Cadio C and 5 x (1/4) tsp for 5 grams extra C from the powder. Would it be best to dose:
1. Mix all of it in a bottle of water and consume it 5 or 6 times over the course of the day or,
2. Mix the one scoop of Cardio c in the morning with the 5 grams of the powder C and drink over the day and have the single scoop of Cardio C at night because of the 7 or 8 hour sleep duration where no C is consumed?

I am not knowledgeable enough yet of how long this stuff lasts in the system or if the best way is to have a bigger dose of maybe 2 grams five times a day or is it OK to sip the total mix over the entire day, is there a need to have a heavier dose at night because of the time sleeping?

I am off the Nexium generic for 3 days and all is well. I went to half a pill of the 25MG Metaprolol twice a day instead of one pill twice a day for 2 days and now off for 24 hours. Just took my BP and 111/75 and rate of 77. They also put me on Atorvastatin 80MG once a day. I read in the archives about a possible issue with reducing cholesterol production and upsetting the body's natural balance. Thoughts about this drug please?

Thanks again for all the help.

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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#12  Post by jimmylesante » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:00 pm

Atorvastatin 80MG

Did you mean to say 80 (eighty) mg?

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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#13  Post by Runner63 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:00 pm

Yes, 80mg. CVS uses all caps on the bottle. At least the spelling was right!!!

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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#14  Post by tjohnson_nb » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:11 pm

Statins are bad news! They interfere with the production of CoEnzyme Q10 which is important for all muscles - including heart!
'Always' and 'never' are 2 words you should always remember never to use.

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Re: Let PT slide, now faces heart by-pass

Post Number:#15  Post by Montmorency » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:31 am

tjohnson_nb wrote:Statins are bad news! They interfere with the production of CoEnzyme Q10 which is important for all muscles - including heart!


Another point about statins is (unless anyone here knows different) that they do nothing to help rebuild healthy blood vessels (unlike the Pauling Therapy).

So reducing cholesterol (which is only there as "first aid" for the blood vessels) without also doing something to rebuild the blood vessels (and reduce/remove the need for the first aid) is scientific illiteracy (I hasten to add, on the part of the people who prescribe them, not on the part of the people who take them, because they have been told that "doctor knows best").


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