Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:45 am

This is a new forum member, male, and I am posting his first post for him.

Hi, I had my first heart attack on august this year and implant with 3 stents ( both bare and DES ).

I was previously a smoker but exercise regularly ( cycling ), it all happens after a 25km ride in one of the Sunday and feeling dizzy and feels like heart stoppages that stop the blood flow. It was sweat all over the body but without prior knowledge of any heart attack knowledge, I went to sleep as it was very tired after it. I visit my family doc the next day and he direct me to ER as he suspect I had an attack and I landed with 3 stents on my heart ( one is 80% and the other is 70% clogged ) and a 30% heart damage from the attack.I was put on 75mg of plavix , 100mg of Aspirin and 40mg of statin after this ( no beta blocker as my heart rate is less than 70 and at times below 60 ). My body is statins intolerant thus i can only take statins(10mg) occasionally and together with multi-vitamins.

It was alright for the first month but I soon feel sick and worried, even afraid to fly for my holidays. Depression creeps just beside me haunting me this and now to worry about the stents and the heart conditions.

I began to search for much more natural alternatives as to the medicine prescribed as I believe that those medicine only makes me sick and depressed.

All this months I am taking 3000mg of fish oil per day , 10mg of statins for alternate days , quit smoking , still cycling but slower pace .

I was looking for this therapy to prevents restenosis and heart maintenance for this and after the plavix ( this makes me feel sick and skin itch ).

I try to look for lysine and proline online but found L-lysine and L-proline, are they the same ?


Yes the L- is assumed. (Shape of the amino acid) so they are the same. The universe works in mysterious ways and I am glad you found Pauling's therapy. If you want to follow Linus Pauling's recommendations you need to start vitamin C and lysine immediately and work your way to 5000 to 6000 mg of each, in divided dosages. Here is our link to help people get started:
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11577

You mention lysine and proline but the absolute requirement is vitamin C, in our experience, ascorbic acid powder orally.

You can find a "products" link from http://paulingtherapy.com which will direct you to descriptions and ordering for the premixed Pauling-therapy drink mixes. I am highly confident in these formulations. Given your situation, you would be wise to select one (the higher priced products include more nutrients known to be beneficial for cardiovascular disease.) When I spoke on the phone, years ago, I might recommend 1 jar Tower Ascorsine 9 (with almost everything) and then 1 jar of Heart Technology monthly. This allows people to reach the therapeutic vitamin C and lysine dosages, but also provides important adjuncts such as magnesium, taurine, vitamin E, etc. After you get better, you can try to "go on the cheap" and save some money for the long term. Now is probably not the time.


I was put on 75mg of plavix , 100mg of Aspirin and 40mg of statin after this ( no beta blocker as my heart rate is less than 70 and at times below 60 ). My body is statins intolerant thus i can only take statins(10mg) occasionally and together with multi-vitamins.

The drug questions we like to leave to johnwen who has a better feel for the stents that were implanted and the drug requirements.

I personally don't like any of the drugs you have been put on. (I wonder if it is an accident that these drugs will make your condition worse? Not that your doctor is aware of this.)

I would substitute 800 iu of Unique-E vitamin E from A. C. Grace (and available from LEF.ORG) for the "aspirins".

In my lay opinion, the statin drug is likely to make your situation worse, and high-dose vitamin C will fulfill the same function, lower cholesterol (the right way) and reduce inflammation.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#2  Post by pgohbk » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:08 am

Thanks and appreciated for your kind replies and advices. I already had the Heart tech on order and I would take a look at the Ascorsine 9 you had mentioned.

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#3  Post by pamojja » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:43 am

I began to search for much more natural alternatives as to the medicine prescribed as I believe that those medicine only makes me sick and depressed.


Good on you! There is every reason to become depressed with this condition and having access to standard of care only:

From http://www.thennt.com/:

Statins Given for 5 Years for Heart Disease Prevention (With Known Heart Disease)

83 for mortality

In Summary, for those who took the statin for 5 years:

Benefits in NNT

1 in 83 were helped (life saved)
1 in 39 were helped (preventing non-fatal heart attack)
1 in 125 were helped (preventing stroke)

Harms in NNH

1 in 100 were harmed (develop diabetes*)
1 in 10 were harmed (muscle damage)

*The development of diabetes is one such unanticipated harm found in a recent large study and it seems likely therefore that this applies to the data above, although this is a best guess.


Blood Pressure Medicines for Five Years to Prevent Death, Heart Attacks, and Strokes

125 for prevented death

In Summary, for those who took anti-hypertensives:

Benefits in NNT

1 in 125 were helped (prevented death)
1 in 67 were helped (prevented stroke)
1 in 100 were helped (prevented heart attack*)

Harms in NNH

1 in 10 were harmed (medication side effects, stopping the drug)

*fatal and non-fatal myocardial infarction and sudden or rapid cardiac death


Aspirin to Prevent Cardiovascular Disease in Patients with Known Heart Disease or Strokes

50 for cardiac benefit

In Summary, for those who took the aspirin:

Benefits in NNT

1 in 50 were helped (cardiovascular problem prevented)
1 in 333 were helped (prevented death)
1 in 77 were helped (prevented non-fatal heart attack)
1 in 200 were helped (prevented non-fatal stroke)

Harms in NNH

1 in 400 were harmed (major bleeding event*)

*Required hospital admission and transfusion


Depression creeps just beside me haunting me this and now to worry about the stents and the heart conditions.


I found that smoking cessation together with a very bad prognosis from my cardiologists were the factors which dragged me really down at the time and short after the diagnosis (of a PAD, together with a sharply shortening pain-free walking distance). Instantly offered Anti-depressives wasn't an option for me, considering that it's possible to go cold turkey from cigarettes (at least for me), but try that on SSRIs!

Therefore first improved my outlook with loads of Orthomolecular medicine and dietary changes by actually improving my physical condition, and for becoming better prepared for smoking cessation too. Meanwhile changing to organically grown tobacco.

I don't dis-advise against cessation, just found it detrimental to get out of a nasty nocebo downward spiral. Once natural medicine and easier life-style changes show their effects, stopping to smoke becomes easier too.

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#4  Post by pamojja » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:51 am

pamojja wrote:Once natural medicine and easier life-style changes show their effects, stopping to smoke becomes easier too.


Also consider soul-searching with a good talk-therapist very helpful in finding and evolving one's personality traits, which make one predisposed to addiction and chronic disease.

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#5  Post by Johnwen » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:22 am

This is a quote from a previous post I presented on Plavix etc.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12244


When they implant a stent the metal mesh of the stent penetrates the endothiel layer of the artery and usually into the lower layers also this. As you might guess this damage causes bleeding in the artery who’s job it is to carry Fresh blood. The blood entering from the wound is used blood and when these two mix the different structures of the two cause the fresh blood to engulf the old returning blood and form a clump this is called aggregation of the platelets or clots.
Plavix prevents this action by making the platelets slippery so they won’t glue together. You should be on this drug for a minimum of 6 month’s after a stent implantation to keep this from happing till things heal over.
These clots can cause you to have a stroke or other problems so don’t mess with this drug and be careful not to bang any part of your body well on it as you will get a black and blue mark even with a small bump this normal for this drug!
However if the BB Mark is Large and came out of nowhere or you feel weak and very tired, see your doc or hit the ER! This can be serious!
The aspirin also helps this happen also! Use the enteric coated ones to prevent stomach problems well on this regimen.




LIPITOR; WHICH IS A STATIN!!
Here we have a couple of schools of thought One being that lowering cholesterol will prevent this plaque from forming. Which is what most doc’s are taught. This is like saying, “If you restrict cement production, They’ll quit building buildings!” We know that isn’t going to happen $$$$!!!
Same in the body it’ll always find a way to bypass things.
Then there is the one that’s pretty close to the truth, “That when you damage the inside of an artery the body will attempt to patch it Ie. Put a cholesterol Band-aid on it.” Well, like I Mentioned before when they place a stent it does damage to the inside of an artery and YES! the body will try to heal it but first it has to stop the bleeding into the fresh blood! Yes! Your cholesterol levels will rise! Will it stick to the stent and form a blockage ?? NO! That’s the job of the Drug’s impregnated into it. To kill the signaling elements that start the process of covering it! Will it stick somewhere else?? No! why? Because your taking l-lysine.
This has been covered many times before on this forum. Lpa is what starts this process the drugs in the stent stop this action. The L-Lysine inside the body looks like dead tissue to the body and Lpa’s job is to attach to damaged and dead tissue and take it back to the liver if it can’t do this, it attaches to the damaged tissue and recruits cholesterol to cover it up. Since the l-lysine is floating it’s the easiest target and has it’s hands full trying to get rid of it so there’s not enough LPa to bind to a damaged site which greatly reduces the chances of a plaque formation.
Should you take this drug? You been on it almost a month and you did the right thing to bring it down. I would stay on it till about the 5th week post stent and then throw the rest in the round file!


Again always consult your doc before you alter or stop the drugs he scripted for you! His job is to do the best for you the way he’s been taught by the drug companies! Which means it’s not always going to be the right path for you!
Take Care! Hope this helps
BTW; DIET! Get it, follow it! Don’t miss your, V-C NOT EVEN for a SINGLE DAY!!!


That should about cover his concerns. Again!! By all means get on Pauling therapy ASAP!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#6  Post by pgohbk » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:56 pm

Thanks for all advices and explanation to makes me more well aware of all effects and consequences.

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#7  Post by pgohbk » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:35 pm

Hi, try to take vitamins C + lysine yesterday but with no good response.
I noted down the entire events yesterday.

1. Wake up and drank apple cider vinegar + honey
2. Took plavix + multi- vitamin
3. Had some breakfast with black coffee
4. Took aspirin
5. All happens from 6 to 7 am
6. Took 1000mg of C + 500 mg of Lysine at 8am
7. Coffee black at 10am
8. Lunch and vitamin C + Lysine at 12pm
9. Coffee black at 3pm
10. Vitamin C + Lysine at 4 pm
11. Off work and 1730 and go for a 10km ride.

Vitamin C are 1000mg pills and lysine are 500 mg pills

After cycling I feel a little lightheaded and it persists, check blood pressure at 1900 and it rise to 190/110 !

Any ideas what happens to me? It was weird as my blood pressure had never been so high even on panic.

Any idea what went wrong ? Because of coffee ? I drank a lot of water yesterday.

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#8  Post by pgohbk » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:40 pm

saw a doc and he says is probably my anxiety that cause panic attack. Give my some dosage and says I can continue with the PT.

was glad to hear that.

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#9  Post by ofonorow » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:35 am

Sounds like you have an excellent doctor! You are lucky. Yes, the subconscious mind can play very strange tricks, especially when veering off the beaten path of orthodox medicine.

Know that neither vitamin C (nor lysine) are toxic. There is no LDL 50 - meaning scientists who study toxicity cannot find a dosage that can kill half (50%) of the lab rats. Even if Pauling was wrong, and vitamin C and lysine, don't work, there is no harm from taking large amounts (contrary to what you might hear or read in the media!)

On the other hand, one of the world's greatest scientists invented a protocol to reverse the disease based on the SCIENCE of what causes cardiovascular disease.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#10  Post by Johnwen » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:31 am

Take a look at the labels of the tablets and capsules your taking!
You see all them 25 letter words on them under the inactive ingredients portion of the label well that’s more then likely your problem!

This topic was brought up a couple of years ago! Your l-lysine tablets weight about 800mg. That’s about 300mg. Of stuff you really don’t need!
The V-C caps which should be #00’s which hold around 900mg. Of V-C.
And the caps weight around 118mg. So the total loaded weight is around 1018mg. This is the 1000mg. On the label. However now you mix the V-C with the fillers listed at a ratio of 1 to 4 and the end product equals about 650mg. Of V-C and the rest is fillers, anti yellowing compounds and the cap itself .
So how much are you taking????

But the more important question is what are all them fillers doing to you?
Most will raise your blood pressure especially if taken in high enough doses.
Like 3 times a day!!!

This is the reason Pauling and his followers advise the use of powders when taking higher then RDA rec’s!!

Owen’s group and many more out there know this and sell powders that will give you what you need without all the extras you don’t!
Again quality is the name of the game here!

I leave the rest to Owen he has went through all the details and searched for just that a quality product. Which he now sells!

Might be a little more then your paying for them fillers but what’s your health and well being worth???
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#11  Post by pgohbk » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:34 pm

Yes, the lysine pills seem very big to have much other fillers. I would wait for the tower labs product to arrived for safety reasons.

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#12  Post by pgohbk » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:13 am

Hi,
Finally received my ASCORSINE-9 .
Anyone know can I take with additional multi-vitamin ?

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#13  Post by ofonorow » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:04 am

Are you asking what is a good multiple vitamin?

Or resident expert Ralph Lotz has long recommended LifeForce by Source Naturals, usually without Iron.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#14  Post by pgohbk » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:23 pm

I just saw that the ascorsine-9 contains quite some vitamin thus would like to inquire can we take additional multi-vitamin with it.

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Re: Heart attack, wound up with 3 stents, depressed

Post Number:#15  Post by pgohbk » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:58 am

Does Vitamin C thin blood ? I ask as I encounter gum bleeding and nose bleeding ( more frequent ) after took the Ascorsine-9 for 2 days.
Normally only gum bleeding and it could be easily stop after bitting some cotton but it seems difficult after this.

Does the Ascorsine-9 C is much purer that thins the blood better than pills with fillers ?

I might had to adjust some aspirin dosage or wait till the half year mark of the stent and goes on single antiplatelet.

My target would be on natural medicine rather than on single antiplatelet as I had enough with the side effects of those drugs.


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