johnwen- Women on 25 mg Toprol (generic) questions its safety

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johnwen- Women on 25 mg Toprol (generic) questions its safety

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:26 am

Toprol-XL (metoprolol) is a beta-blocker that affects the heart and circulation (blood flow through arteries and veins). Toprol-XL is used to treat angina (chest pain) and hypertension (high blood pressure). It is also used to treat or prevent heart attack.


A 53 year-old woman of color stopped by our store, and she was born with mitral valve prolapse. today, she has a clean bill of health from her cardiologist, regarding her heart, however, a few years ago after a car accident her heart started "racing" and she has been put on Toprol 25 mg - to slow her heart rate. She has been told this is too small a dosage to be problematic, but she would like to get off off it.

No other drugs, other than occasional Nexium. And although she has no pain, they prescribe Nexium after some regurgitation test.
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Re: johnwen- Women on 25 mg Toprol (generic) questions its safety

Post Number:#2  Post by nineboy » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:39 pm

Happy New Year, Well this is a subject I'm interested in. I take Metoprolol 3 x 25 mg a day for my angina which has disappeared for now. I too would like to try to be off it. I would like to see if it is the Vitamin C that is now helping me, probably is. I have saw johnwen comments on this drug, not good but it's hard to go against cardiologist's and doctors who prescribe it. Also might give me some trouble getting off it as well. Plus angina has gone and I wouldn't want it back. Still think it causes my shoulder pain too. No it is not completely gone but is bearable. nineboy. :? :?

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Re: johnwen- Women on 25 mg Toprol (generic) questions its safety

Post Number:#3  Post by Johnwen » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:11 pm

25Mg. Is not problematic?????????
Put her on it after a car accident (Shock! both mental and physical) then kept her on it???????

I’ve talked about this before ! Let’s see next on the list! Doctor sends her for a echocardiogram! OH!OH! Ejection fraction is around 40 (early stage heart failure) Blood pressure is climbing! Why! insufficient blood circulation so arteries narrow to compensate!

Doc pulls out script pad and writes a bunch of prescription’s including statin’s because now she is in danger of a heart attack????
Pharma is rubbing their hands Saying “More Money!”

Why all this unnecessary problems ?? Toprol (Metoprolol Succinate or Tartate) Not only slows the heart rate but weakens the contraction force of the heart! The heart is a muscle, although a special one but still a muscle!!!
Now we know everybody wants to have weakened muscles???? Right! that way we can’t walk, feed ourselves or move. Of course we don’t!!!!
Why would you do it to your heart??? The only reason I can think of is if the heart is in severe failure, Like after a major heart attack or compromised elderly.

I would buy 6 month’s after a major shock then titrate off of it when the crisis has become a memory.

Now the bad part of this drug is you can’t just stop it after you been taking it for a year or two like she has. It has a lot of rebound issues and the body has to adjust. At 25mg. First she needs to get or use a home blood pressure reader! There is hundreds on the market. She needs one! A pill cutter would be helpful also.
Have her take her BP well on the 25mg. For about a week!
Then, Start by cutting the pill in half and then take this for a minimum of two weeks.
While monitoring her BP and pulse at first there maybe a rise in both but as she returns to normal reading usually about a week. Continue on this dosage for an additional week then ¼ the pill and repeat.
Then drop off and repeat. At this point she’ll have a good grip on her BP and if it is elevated! Any other BP med, other then a beta blocker. Is what she would need! If it isn’t elevated she’s one of the lucky one and needs to play “Powerball!”

Nineboy! With angina you need to keep in touch with your doc on this! He probably sees something other then a car accident causing your problems!!
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Re: johnwen- Women on 25 mg Toprol (generic) questions its safety

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:31 am

Thanks johnwen! I texted the woman that you had replied, and she was right then, coincidentally, at her cardiologist for an appointment!? Her text back was that they want to increase her dosage because her heart is "racing." (I told her to keep good notes, and she plans to stop by the store tomorrow and I'll post more details.)

One other clue, I learned in the past that this woman has been diagnosed with "high cortisol" levels that she is trying to reduce. (I'm trying to tell her how lucky she is that she can still make all the cortisol she needs.)
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Re: johnwen- Women on 25 mg Toprol (generic) questions its safety

Post Number:#5  Post by Johnwen » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:25 am

OK! She still has a fast heart rate and has been tested for cortisol levels and they are elevated.
Should she increase beta-blockers? NO!!!
Is it good to have high cortisol levels? NO!!!!
Let’s take a look at what causes the increased levels of cortisol and the problems associated with them beside just elevated pulse with the eventual high BP!

First here is a very comprehensive link that show the effects of both low and high serum cortisol levels. They start with low and then high and the effects and causes of both. Long but good read!!!

http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/med ... nal-gland/


After reading that you’ll see that a high percentage of people who have high cortisol have what is known as “Cushing’s syndrome,” which in most cases is caused by a adenoma (tumor) of the adrenal’s. If not there a meds to lower the level’s
Here’s the wiki on it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's ... #Treatment

Hope this helps with understanding of this problem but I’m sure getting it fixed or controlled will solve her racing heart.
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Re: johnwen- Women on 25 mg Toprol (generic) questions its safety

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:13 am

Here is the report after the visit to the 'cardiologist.'

Blood pressure 120/88 Pulse was 105. They suggested increasing Toprol to 50 mg, once in the a.m and once in the p.m., to slow down the heart rate. (She tried it but has bronchial problem) They suggested she wear a heart monitor for a month, and perhaps see a "EP" doctor (doc who specializes in heart rhythm). (4 years ago Echo normal, heart scan normal.) Also the "doc: she saw was a "nurse practioner" - did not see cardiologist.

Last year they said the could switch to "cardiozem" http://www.drugs.com/cdi/cardizem.html A Beta Blocker!?

So she is confused and looking for guidance, perhaps how to find a doctor. She is worried about going into atrial fibrillation.
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Re: johnwen- Women on 25 mg Toprol (generic) questions its safety

Post Number:#7  Post by Johnwen » Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:01 am

Cardiozem is Diltiazen which is a CCB (calcium channel blocker) basically it’s a blood pressure medicine.
On the list of anti angina or vasospasm drugs it’s one of the least effective.

Name Brand Norvasc (Amlodipine Besylate) being on the top. However here’s a catch, “Generics don’t !!!” I preach this all the time it’s the salts used to produce Norvasc which is a preparatory formula held by Pfizer!!!

The generics work good on BP but not vasospasm’s or angina.
CCB’s are also used for tachycardia also because it relaxes the heart muscle also just like it relaxes the arteries intima muscle.

However trying to get a insurance company to pop for name brand Norvasc get’s met with outrageous Co-Pays! So!!!! Diltiazen might be a good place to start.

My choice on Diltiazen is Cartia XT (120mg.) which is a time release once a day formula. Which gives better patient compliance since they only have to take it once a day. It also doesn’t throw her BP, “which is a little high on the diastolic giving a 32 on pulse pressure (should be 40-50 or age if over 50 then age -5),” DOWN to the point of danger which immediate release may cause.

I agree that she needs to get into see a Real Cardiologist!
ARNP/C are good for follow up’s, work ups and emergencies Not diagnostic’s !!
She needs to see someone that has the training and experience so they can pinpoint her problem!

Holter monitor’s are usually only worn for 24 or 48 hours to get a grip on what’s going on over a period of time. A month would be just peat-repeat!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holter_monitor

I also thinking if he spots some kind of arrhythmia they’ll probably put her on something like Plavix or Effient or some other form of blood thinner to reduce her risk of a stroke. However I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t refer her to a Endo Doc to see what’s going on with the high cortisol.

As far as being a little confused and very concerned about the whole situation. I like to assure her that she’s doing the right thing by trying to find the cause before it get’s serious and getting it fixed, not just throwing more medicines on the fire!
As I said in post #3 here!

Additionally by getting going on Pauling therapy to give the heart what it needs to stay healthy during this crisis as while as after to keep things ticking properly.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!


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