Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

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Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:42 am

Hello again,

I know you must be very busy, but if it's at all possible, we would appreciate your opinion on the following.

My husband, John, had his 1st stress test yesterday and was told that he has an 80% blockage in 1 artery. The doctor will be setting up an appointment for a dye test in a couple of weeks, and said that, at that time, the doctor doing it will determine whether a stent or balloon is needed. We, of course, are hoping that neither will be done, especially as we've read that stents now are coated in a drug that emits over time to keep the blockage from recurring and has its own set of complications.

John was also prescribed the following drugs. We are not big fans of modern medicine and avoid pills and prescriptions but we realize that these may be necessary so he got the prescriptions filled.
Amiodipine Besylate 5mg - 1 once a day
Clopidogrel Bisulfate 75mg - 1 once a day
Metoprolol Tartrate 50mg - 1.5 twice a day
Lipitor (don't know the dosage - have heard so much bad about this drug John declined to get the prescription filled)

Will these meds interfere with the Cardio-C? Is there anything you can tell us about these that it would be important for us to know?

We have bought some Co-enzyme Q10 (the ubiquinol type) to accompany the Cardio-C.

Thanks in advance for any help you are able to offer.

D & J.

Johnwen would have a more definitive answer on those particular drugs, and I personally think you are wise to decline the statin cholesterol-lowering drug. We are all being lied to about the value of these and other drugs.

As far as any interference between vitamin C and lysine and heart medications, all I can say that in our now 20-year experience, almost all the patients with advanced heart disease, and who quickly recovered, were taking a myriad of prescription drugs trying to control their condition. The only thing that routinely happened is that these former patients, who had not been taking large doses of vitamin C, got better, quickly.
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:22 pm

1. Amiodipine Besylate 5mg - 1 once a day
2. Clopidogrel Bisulfate 75mg - 1 once a day
3. Metoprolol Tartrate 50mg - 1.5 twice a day
4. Lipitor (don't know the dosage - have heard so much bad about this drug John declined to get the prescription filled)



1. I sure you mean Amlodipine Besylate which was originally manufactured by Pfizer with the name brand “Norvasc!” Is what is known as a Calcium Channel Blocker! It was originally designed to prevent vasospasms and had the side effect of lowering blood pressure. Today it’s marketed as a Blood pressure medicine since the process’s used to make it are different then Norvasc.
Vasospasms occur when the arteries become block and the bodies natural response is to spasm the muscle of the arteries in an attempt to break the blockage loose. These spasms are like a charley horse of the arteries and are just as painful. Only it’s called “Angina!”
If he’s taking it just to control Blood pressure he should be OK with the generic brands. If he’s having intermittent angina he might need a extend release Nitro like Isosorbide Mononitrate AKA “IMDUR” to control it! Because insurance companies are very reluctant to pay for name brand products. Even if the Doc scripts it as, “Medically Necessary!” and the Co-pays are astronomical! However if your Pharmacy is cooperative see if they stock Amlodipine made by “VINTAGE”. the pills have a fancy V on one side and Numbers on the other. Their about as close to Norvasc as you can get in a generic!

2. Clopidogrel Bisulfate AKA “PLAVIX” is a anti platelet medicine which keeps the blood from clumping together which can break loose from the sight of the damage and travel to the brain causing a stroke. I agree with this med given his condition at this point. However make sure he’s aware that after awhile on this drug he see Black and Blue marks pop up for no reason or even a minor bump will result in these marks. It’s normal on this drug however if he has a Large area develop, Get in asap to see the DOC!

3. Metoprolol Tartate is what’s known as a beta blocker. It’s function is to slow the heart rate and weaken the contraction force of the heart. If his heart rate isn’t high, I don’t see why they prescribed this for him! One reason being, if his condition worsens to a heart attack and once they correct it with a stent, Balloon or bypass he will come out of it with Heart failure! Because that’s what this drug does, “Weakens the heart!”
Also the dose they have him on is very high!! 12.5mg Bid would be the highest I would go with him at this point unless he is really tachy! (High heart rate over a 100 resting!)

4. Lipitor GARBAGE!!!! DO I NEED TO SAY MORE!!

Get his thyroid checked by a integrative Endo who understands, “Sub clinical Hypothyroidism!”

On his Cardio C Min. 3 doses a day and don’t miss a Single Dose! If he has to go somewhere a bottle of water and a dose in a plastic bag! Mix and take at his scheduled time without Fail, His life depends on it!!!

Pick up some Vitamin A 5000-10000IU One a day!

Hope this helps and good luck to him, he’s on the right track with the Cardio C!


OWEN:
The only thing that routinely happened is that these former patients, who had not been taking large doses of vitamin C, got better, quickly.


NOT BEEN TAKING???????????????

How about “BEEN TAKING!!!!!!!!!”

V-C is the CURE Not the Problem!!!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#3  Post by BrightSideOfLife » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:00 am

Some things that I know might be helpful but I do urge you to check about possible interactions are:

Serrapeptase, Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase. These enzymes can help remove blockages in arteries. But you must be very careful because the reason for the initial blockage ie the body attempting to seal the arteries due to lack of vitamin c. It is essential that his vitamin c levels are high enough to repair the arteries as you use these because you do not want bleeding caused by removal of the blockages. I would take small doses so that it is not done too quickly so that the arteries can be repaired. You can eat a Japanese food called Natto but be aware that Natto/Nattokinase can lower blood pressure so be aware of this in case it conflicts with any of his medications.

I would also recommend he takes high doses of blue, black and red berries. Blueberries, blackberries, cherries etc because they contain anthocyanidins which the body can use to reinforce the arteries and strengthen the skin and bones too so you might like to take some as well. You can buy extracts such as Grape Seed Extract which can do a similar thing which he could take on a regular basis throughout the day. I would recommend that you buy a decent capsule machine (CN-100CL is the best but not the cheapest) and make some GSE capsules if you want to keep costs down. I have been buying GSE from Blackburndistributions as prices are reasonable but you might need to find a supplier close to you.

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#4  Post by JohnDonna » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:45 am

Thanks so much for the advice so far. We now have an appointment date for his arteriogram. It will be on July 14th (pre-assessment) and 15th, the arteriogram. That means we have 17 or 18 days to get as much improvement as possible from the Cardio-C which he started on Friday evening (24th). I had ordered Co-enzyme Q-10 for him (Ubiquinol not Ubiquinone) but have since read that it can interact with the drugs that he is taking and lower his blood pressure too much.

I have also read that Grape Seed Extract can have negative side effects when interacting with the drugs. I am making him smoothies every day full of greens and berries, chia seeds, flax, nutritional yeast, etc and we are trying to follow a diet plan similar to those recommended by Doctors Esselstyn, Fuhrman and Ornish. They claim reversal of heart disease if followed rigorously but we prefer to count on the Pauling Therapy and just follow the diets as additional help. He also takes a multi-vitamin, Vitamin D3 (oil caps), B complex, the Vitamin A you recommended and 400 IU Vitamin E.

We are both very concerned about the possibility that they will want to put a stent in - especially one coated with medication - and would like to refuse it, but are also worried about the consequences of doing that. Either way it is very worrisome. Does anyone out there have information that might be helpful in making our decision? Fortunately we are in Canada so the expense is not a problem.

The amount of Metoprolol Tartrate that the Dr. has John taking is also very worrisome. He was initially prescribed 25 mg after he first went to our GP about his symptoms. The cardiologist prescribed an additional 75mg twice a day, meaning he's taking 100mg twice a day! He called the doctor to make sure that was not a mistake, and while he didn't speak to him directly, his nurse told us that she specifically asked whether he intended John to keep taking the original 25mg as well and he said yes. Even she expressed surprise at that.

Again, any information that might help us make decisions would be most appreciated. Thank you.

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#5  Post by SonnyCrack » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:04 am

A stent WILL NOT prevent a heart attack or stroke. If he has Angina it may help with that but I would ponder the hospital is more interested in making money than the health of your husband.

There was no statistical difference in how long patients lived or whether they suffered a heart attack, and the procedure only moderately improved angina, chest pains associated with defective heart muscle


http://abcnews.go.com/Health/OnCall/sto ... 572&page=1

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#6  Post by nineboy » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:22 pm

Well as someone with a few stents and pacemaker I might agree. I think though that with me following Paulings therapy is what keeps my stents clear. Probably wish I'd have tried it first but now firmly believe it is what keeps me active by walking, back working in the garden and dancing as well. Recent report on my pacemaker is that my body isn't using it and also no arrythma's either. So I'm not doing too bad, luckily my stents are bare metal. Also in 2012 I was told I still had a 80% blockage and hopefully my Vitamin C and lysine and proline plus other vitamins have helped clear it up. I continue to not have angina but don't have the same stamina I used to have. I'm 73 now and with Pauling's therapy and info on this site hope to keep up with all my activities as long as possible. Nineboy. :D :D :D

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#7  Post by JohnDonna » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:04 am

Thank you, SonnyCrack and nineboy!
A few more questions.
- Do you follow any special diet with the Pauling Therapy?
- Has anyone heard of or had "Fractional Flow Reserve" (FFR) testing done?
- John makes red wine and enjoys a glass or 2 every evening. Can he still do this or will it interfere with the Cardio-C?

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#8  Post by SonnyCrack » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:28 am

Hi John, there are so many different opinions on an optimum diet. The only thing I think everyone agrees on is avoiding sugar and transfats. As far as wine, I don't see a problem however I would not take Vit C with the wine because of the sugar content. Perhaps waiting 2 hours or so after the last glass would be more absorbed any helpful.

As far s the test, I've never heard of it. Sorry.

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#9  Post by JohnDonna » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:47 am

Thanks! The FFR is a relatively new test that has reduced the number of stents being used. I found out that they do have the procedure at the hospital we'll be going to, so hoping it might help me avoid a stent. http://www.ptca.org/news/2010/0623_FFR.html

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#10  Post by nineboy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:25 am

Well this is interesting reading that article. In 2010 I was having an angiogram and the cardiologist said I don't think we'll be stenting you today. Then I heard Oh! wait a minute no you'll need some stents and I ended up with five. Something to do with flow but I didn't know what was going on. Now maybe I do. In regards your question to wine I don't drink much these days but can't see a glass of wine being a problem but I'm no expert. Again I would keep up the Vitamin C regime. I feel so much better for it, I have not had a heart attack or by- pass done. I do have friends who have had triple and more by- passes and later stents put in as well. I tell them about Vitamin C and Pauling but they continue on in their own ways. I hope every thing goes well at the hospital and have always found myself being well looked after during procedures. So good luck. Nineboy. :D :D

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#11  Post by JohnDonna » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:14 am

Thank you, Nineboy! I'm sure we'll be back with more questions. :)

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#12  Post by JohnDonna » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:14 am

Some quick questions.
1. John is taking Cardio-C 3 times a day but that only gives him 7500mg of C. We want to add ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate to get the daily total up closer to 20gm. I found so many references to amounts and percentages in the forums that it was confusing. Any rule of thumb guidelines?
2. He also was taking Vitamin K (MK-7) and D3 but research indicated that the K would interact badly with the heart drugs. Same info for Ubiquinol. Yet both are recommended for heart patients. It's very frustrating! Does anyone have more specific information?
3. Since beginning the additional drugs after the stress test, he is finding that he feels much more tired and is up frequently to pee at night but with not much to show for it. I read that the Amlodipine Besylate can increase the need to pee and the Metoprolol Tartrate can decrease urine output. He's tempted to reduce the latter, since he's taking 100mg a day, to see if it helps. It's doubtful that the cardiologist would approve. Does anyone have any experience with this drug that might help us decide?
Thanks!

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#13  Post by nineboy » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:31 pm

Well I would think slowly taking more Vit. C up to Bowel tolerance. You know when it happens and you better not be out and about. I've barely made it a couple of times. Not sure on Vitamin K and heart drugs.
Yes I am on Metoprolol 3 x 25mg. and I would like to find a way off it. I'm sure johnwen will tell you to be careful on this subject. It can really knock the stuffing out of you if you reduce it. I got my cardiologist to reduce it by taking it 3 times a day at 25mg. I would like off it completely but told no way. My energy level is pretty good and I'm told I have got used to my angina. It's hard but I exercise and continue to work hard at anything I do. Vitamin C for me is the answer and I have my heart medications to take has well. Right now my body seems happy with my 9 grams Vit. C plus lysine and proline. I like your husband went through some trying times but am stronger for being in this site. Anyway take care. nineboy. :D :D

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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#14  Post by Johnwen » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:01 pm

On #1 It just takes a little math to see where he’s at as far as V-C. A few years back I posted a chart on this. On it the figure for maintenance dose was about 50 mg/Kg and the therapeutic level comes in at about 100 mg/Kg+.
What this means is his weight to the amount of V-C needed to achieve these levels.
Lets say John weights in at 200 Lbs. lets find his weight in Kg!

That his weight 200 lbs and multiply by .4536 and we’ll get his Kg weight.

200 X .4536 = 90.72Kg We’ll use 91 rounding up!

He’s taking 7000mg of V-C per your post, Now we’ll find his mg/Kg figure.

7000 / 91 = 76.92mg/Kg So this means to get him up to the 100 mg/Kg figure let’s do this.

91 X 100 = 9100 mg. of V-C to move into the therapeutic range of 10000Mg would be better.

Of course Bowel tolerance would indicate his true health but the figure’s I gave you here, using his true weight would give you a much better picture of what he need’s to get into a helpful range.

On #2 your making a common mistake of confusing anti-platelet drugs for blood thinners. You said he is taking Plavix this is a anti-platelet drug and none of the supplements he’s taking have any effects on these drugs.
Now if they placed him on Warfarin which is a Blood Thinner this would not be the case since these supplements counter the action’s of these drugs.
The newer true blood thinners such as Eliquis (apixaban) etc. are NOT affected either by the supplements he’s taking!

On #3 Beta-andrenoceptor antagonists better known as beta-blockers which Metoprolol Tartate is, which I covered before reduces the pumping action of the heart which in turn reduces the volume of blood going thru the system which means the kidney’s are seeing less blood which means less filtering and results in less urine being produced and more garbage floating around in his system. I would ask his Doc why he’s taking this drug at this point because he may not be giving you the full picture of what’s going on.
If he insists see if he’ll switch him over to Metoprolol Succinate That way he won’t be taking as many pills during the day. Succinate form is like an extended release.
No none of the supplements will effect this drug.

Here’s a link to the JACC article about what effect various drugs have on Causing Heart Failure!

Beta-andrenoceptor antagonists = Metoprolol

Calcium Channel Blockers = Amlodipine Besylate

http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.a ... id=1125697
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Re: Husband has 80% blockage, facing stent

Post Number:#15  Post by JohnDonna » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:15 am

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is an amazing forum and it's so generous of everyone to take the time to answer our questions! This post was especially helpful, Johnwen!
Again, thanks so much! :)


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