Question about Arginine

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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brontosayros
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Question about Arginine

Post Number:#1  Post by brontosayros » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:34 am

Hello Owen,
Greetings from Greece. I am 46 years old and I have suffered a heart attack in December of 2013. Never smoked, always athletic and with clean diet throughout most of my life. My LAD was completely blocked off and my right artery was 75% blocked. I had a double bypass surgery in May of 2014 (a mamary for the LAD and a leg vein graft for the right artery). Unfortunately, this March I suffered another heart attack and I had angioplasty (one stent) on my left artery. Unfortunately, I don't know what kind of stent they put in. Trying to figure out why I had another heart attack since I was following my doctor's instructions dilligently when it comes to nutrition, medication and exercise, I started researching on the Internet and soon enough the name Linus Pauling popped up. Eventually, I stumbled on your website which I consider a great service to humanity.I have started on LP therapy since the beggining of September. My daily regimen is:

18 grams of vitamin c
6 grams of Lysine
500mg of Proline
150 Mg K2

I still take the drugs my cardiologist has prescribed me
Plavix 75
Carvedilol 6.25
Ramipril 1/2 of 2.5 mg
aspirin ( acetylsalicylic acid)

I was also prescribed Atovarstatin 40 mg which I have stopped taking after reading a lot about the negative side effects of statins. My cholesterol was around 240-250 when off statins and around 200 when on statins. I also had a carotid ultrasound recently and both arteries are completely clean - even although my heart arteries had been damanged, so much for the cholesterol theory....Anyway, my question is in regards to my vein artery (I guess the same problem I may have on the artery where they put the stent in). I have seen Johnwen repeatedly mentioning here that vein grafts are subject to neo-intimal hyperplacia and that one way to prevent that was by producing more nitric oxide in your body either by taking a nitrate drug or by taking argining and citruline. However, regarding arginine there is a John Hopkins study (L-arginine therapy in acute myocardial infarction: the Vascular Interaction With Age in Myocardial Infarction (VINTAGE MI) randomized clinical trial)) where people who had suffered a heart attack were being supplemented with l arginine and the study was discontinued because of some patients dying. Upon some more research on the Internet I found out there are some people who speculate that patients in the experiment were given a synthetic form of l-arginige that also included a carrier molecule called hydrocloride. Hydrocloride, they claim, upsets potassium levels in the bloodstream and thus can cause another heart attack. I wonder if you or Johnwen know about the study or can comment on whether you feel there are any safety concerns regarding arginine. There are no safety issues with citrulline as far as I know but then again citruliine has not been studied as much as arginine. SInce convincing my doctors to prescribe me a nitrate is out of the question I would like to explore the natural remedy route if there is no risk. I would appreciate your response or Johnwen's take on the matter since he is the one who has commented on the issue more than once.
Thank you and keep up the great work you do.

Johnwen
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Re: Question about Arginine

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:49 am

In people of advanced age with decreased kidney function or a person taking a diuretic L- Arginine can increase the amount Potassium chloride in the blood which if the levels reach high enough can cause problems. The other caveat is you should have a span of at least one year after a heart attack before starting it.

Rebound occlusions are a common factor after bypass surgery which it appears this is what happen to you. Your now on Pauling Therapy (PT) which should keep this from reoccurring again!
Your time line is a little confusing but in addition to PT if it has been at least 6 month’s since your last incident, I would suggest adding Serrapeptase 40,000 SPU units one time a day. This helps in the removal of dead tissue from the problem areas as while as helping clear the lungs.

At the 1 year mark from your last heart attack add L-Arginine 500mg 2x a day (bid).

At this 1 year point you should have your Kidney’s checked to make sure their functioning properly Or better known as a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel W/EGFR! If your EGFR is above 60 you would be safe to start the Arginine!

Hope this helps!
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Re: Question about Arginine

Post Number:#3  Post by ChuckArbogast » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:58 pm

Johnwen wrote:I would suggest adding Serrapeptase 40,000 SPU units one time a day. This helps in the removal of dead tissue from the problem areas as while as helping clear the lungs.


Johnwen,
I can get Serrapeptase from Doctor's Best either by itself or with Nattokinase. Is there any added benefit to get it with Nattokinase?

Also, you recommend on 40,000 per day where I see you can get capsules that go up to 120,000 and they suggest to take that more than once a day. Is taking more than what you recommend pointless or is there benefit to taking more?

Thanks,
Chuck
Last edited by ChuckArbogast on Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

brontosayros
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Re: Question about Arginine

Post Number:#4  Post by brontosayros » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:10 am

Thank you Johnwen for your detailed response. Besides my PT therapy regimen and my medication I also supplement with
coQ10 -200mg, Magnesium aspartate 300 mg and fish oil 3 grams a day. I know from reading other posts here that you and Owen have said that vitamin c, lysine and proline don't affect blood thinning medication. I suppose the same goes for K2, althought I haven't found an explicit statement on this forum that this is indeed the case. Can you please comment on k2 and its interaction with blood thinners, if any? Now, I was wondering since i am taking two blood thinning medications (aspirin and plavix) along with fish oil and magnesium which are known to have mild blood thinning effects, would the addition of Serrapeptase cause any problems? On various sites like webmd and examine.com (although I cannot attest to their credibility) they state that taking Serrapeptase should be avoided if on blood thinners since it might decrease blood clotting and, therefore,might increase the chances of bruising and bleeding. Any thoughts on that? Would checking my INR give me an indication if all those meds and supplements taken daily don't cause a problem? Also, has anybody on the forum with heart disease taken serrapeptase and arginine? I would love tho hear their experience.

Thanks again

Johnwen
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Re: Question about Arginine

Post Number:#5  Post by Johnwen » Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:54 am

Chuck;

40,000 spu units is a sufficient dose to accomplish removal at a slower rate when taken over a extended period of time (>6 month’s) this gives a person such as the one with a recent bypass time to slowly remove the scarring and dead tissue. Higher doses tend to release more debris into the system and can cause problems elsewhere!
Nattokinase can be helpful by itself as it acts as a blood thinner. My thoughts are their combining the two to try to avoid what I mentioned about debris in higher doses. I would opt for the lower dose serrapeptase for the extended intake time line other then trying to blast it away. Of course those with a immediate problem might opt for the blasting option.

Bronto-

First of all your taking Plavix and not a blood thinner such as Warfarin.
Plavix is a Anti-Platelet medicine and does not act the same way as a blood thinner. Blood thinners are drugs that prevent the blood from coagulating Anti-Platelets keep the blood cells from sticking together this is a different action all together. Plavix does NOT effect your INR and is not effected by the K factor. So testing your INR is not going to give you any kind of indications of effect.
Here’s a link that gets into the difference between these different agents!

https://healdove.com/health-care-indust ... d-Thinners

You want personal experience Ok here!
My wife had a triple in 2001 using saphenous veins due to non palatable
mammary arteries. To make a long story short. She has been on PT since 2002 in 2010 she developed hyperplasia in one of the bypasses and we reversed it with Imdur and L-Arginine and has been on a constant dose since.
In 2013 she developed COPD and I started her on serrapeptase and her last years scan showed The RCA which was > 95% occluded is now @ 80%.
She take’s Effient which is a anti-platelet just like Plavix only a little more effective. She’s 74 years old and today she outside raking leaves and when I talked to her about an hour ago she said she’s got about 2 more hours to get it done. The only effect is it makes things better!!!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

ChuckArbogast
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Re: Question about Arginine

Post Number:#6  Post by ChuckArbogast » Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:04 am

Johnwen wrote:Chuck;

40,000 spu units is a sufficient dose to accomplish removal at a slower rate when taken over a extended period of time (>6 month’s) this gives a person such as the one with a recent bypass time to slowly remove the scarring and dead tissue. Higher doses tend to release more debris into the system and can cause problems elsewhere!
Nattokinase can be helpful by itself as it acts as a blood thinner. My thoughts are their combining the two to try to avoid what I mentioned about debris in higher doses. I would opt for the lower dose serrapeptase for the extended intake time line other then trying to blast it away. Of course those with a immediate problem might opt for the blasting option.

Bronto-

First of all your taking Plavix and not a blood thinner such as Warfarin.
Plavix is a Anti-Platelet medicine and does not act the same way as a blood thinner. Blood thinners are drugs that prevent the blood from coagulating Anti-Platelets keep the blood cells from sticking together this is a different action all together. Plavix does NOT effect your INR and is not effected by the K factor. So testing your INR is not going to give you any kind of indications of effect.
Here’s a link that gets into the difference between these different agents!

https://healdove.com/health-care-indust ... d-Thinners

You want personal experience Ok here!
My wife had a triple in 2001 using saphenous veins due to non palatable
mammary arteries. To make a long story short. She has been on PT since 2002 in 2010 she developed hyperplasia in one of the bypasses and we reversed it with Imdur and L-Arginine and has been on a constant dose since.
In 2013 she developed COPD and I started her on serrapeptase and her last years scan showed The RCA which was > 95% occluded is now @ 80%.
She take’s Effient which is a anti-platelet just like Plavix only a little more effective. She’s 74 years old and today she outside raking leaves and when I talked to her about an hour ago she said she’s got about 2 more hours to get it done. The only effect is it makes things better!!!

Johnwen,
Thanks ask always for your help. I will take the slow and steady approach on the Serrapeptase. Do you think there is value if I add Nattokinase as well, due to my previous heart attack and bypass surgery using veins? Doctor's Best brand shows it has 2000 FU per capsule. What would the best dose be if it is valuable?

Also, it sounds like these two would be good for people, like my family members, to take even if they haven't had heart attacks or known blockages. Is that your opinion as well? If so, how much should they take? You say there is no issue taking this with Plavix, but what about a baby aspirin?

Not to bug you too much more, but did you have a chance to read my email/other post? I know your busy and appreciate all your valuable input. Since I am seeing my doctor in week, I am anxious to know your answers.

Thanks again as always,
Chuck

brontosayros
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Re: Question about Arginine

Post Number:#7  Post by brontosayros » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:09 pm

Thank you Johnwen from the bottom of my heart. I sincerely appreciate your help. You are awesome as always.


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