High CT Scan score after one-year on the Pauling Therapy

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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High CT Scan score after one-year on the Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:31 am

Dear Mr. Fonorow,

I was referred to you by Tower Laboratories. I have been using the Tower Labs Heart Tech vitamin C supplement for a year, and due to disappointing results, called Tower to cancel my monthly order. We chatted for a while and she asked about my condition. I told her that a year ago during my annual physical, my doctor suggested I get a CT Heart Scan to determine if I have any plaque in my arteries. The results came back unexpectedly high and my doctor wanted me to start taking Lipitor right away. But statins didn't appeal to me due to side effects, so after some research found out about Vitamin C and other plaque reducing dietary changes, which I started immediately. A year later (a couple days ago), I had another CT heart scan expecting a good result. However I found that my coronary calcium score had increased by 129 points-diagnosis Atherosclerosis. Not only no improvement or stabilization as I had hoped, but the condition got worse!

I don't have any other health problems, live a healthy lifestyle, don't smoke, have exercised daily for decades, eat healthy, took vitamin supplements like Tower Labs. So I'm at my wits end as to what do to do now but to start taking statins as my doctors suggested, as I am alarmed that my CT scan results indicate that I am at high risk of having a cardiovascular event within the next 2-5 years!

Tower suggested I contact you as you might have some insight from all the people you have talked to, as to why it didn't work for me, and how I might proceed from here. I would appreciate any suggestions, doctor references, or pointers you can provide.

Regards,
--Ed


The CT scans measure calcium in the arteries. We have known for over a decade that taking vitamin C and lysine will have little to no effect on calcified arteries (arteriosclerosis). The "trick" is adding vitamin K. The Japanese research showing that vitamin K acts as a hormone moving calcium from soft tissues into bones was not published until after Linus Pauling's death.

Anecdotally, my wife and I take one LEF.ORG Super-K per day, and our scores on the CT-Scans (posted) are zero - age 62. I would expect yours to drop by adding vitamin K, and staying off drugs that block vitamin K (e.g. Warfarin)

As far as the statin hoax, there is no real science that Statin cholesterol-lowering drugs s do anything positive for heart patients, and there is a ton of data that these drugs are harmful. Here is a good place to start, but the evidence against statins is voluminous.

http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12520

And here is our blurb on adding vitamin K to the Pauling vitamin C/lysine therapy


http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11891
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: High CT Scan score after one-year on the Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:27 pm

First and foremost I agree with Owen that this person should stay on Pauling therapy and start K2 asap!!! With the addition of Niacin also!!

Although after reading this persons report I have a few questions???

They signed it as, “ED” so I presume this person is male??

How old is this person?? It’s a known fact that these scores rise with age most increases occur after age 60!

If they have a recent blood test, what are their Blood (Plasma) Calcium levels
If it broken down it should be in the Chemistry readings.
(thinking possible parathyroid problem)

I would like to see a TSH number also???

This may not be available to them but it might be somewhere on their Calcium score report!
Do they say what grading system they are using??

Agatston Score (Ags)?
Volume Calcium Score (vcs)?
Calcium Mass score (cms)?
Coronary calcium score (CCS)?

Next where was the build up at?
My bet is their seeing it at a Bifurcation of the arteries.
This where the vessels form a Y connection and is subject to high turbulence of the blood flow in these areas.

Last! How has their blood pressure been and are they taking BP meds??

I have some suspicions as to his problem but need more input!
HOWEVER DON’T STOP PAULING THERAPY not even for a single day!!! That would be a mistake at this point!!!
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Re: High CT Scan score after one-year on the Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#3  Post by tjohnson_nb » Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:34 pm

What about boron and the parathyroid? It is supposed to be important for calcium - magnesium regulation, among other things.
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Re: High CT Scan score after one-year on the Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#4  Post by acct005 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:54 am

Thanks much for your reply. I had seen the reference to Vitamin K2 earlier in my research, I believe it was Pauling web site, and have been taking 1 tablet of Vitamin K2 (MK-7 with MenaQ7, 100mcg) every day along with the Vitamin C from Tower Labs for the past year. After reading about Dr. Pauling's work and taking the Vitamin C and K2, I was convinced that it would work. But it hasn't done anything to improve my condition. My CT Scan score was a coronary calcium score of >500, up from 377 the previous year. So all my dietary changes and vitamin supplements didn't improve my condition, but as the scan shows, has accelerated it.

I will add that about a month ago I asked my wife get a CT heart scan also, as we eat the same diet and live the same healthy lifestyle, don't smoke, not on any meds -- except she doesn't take Vitamin C or K2 supplements. Her coronary calcium score was zero. We are both close to 60.
Thanks,
Ed

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Re: High CT Scan score after one-year on the Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#5  Post by Joanna45 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:49 am

Ed..I would like to know if anyone has an explanation for this..I have not had my calicium scores checked mostly because I would rather not have a CT scan so I do not know what mine Is ..the only one I have ever checked is the one that they check in the regular basic metabolic panel and calicium was 9.3 in a range of 8.5-10.5 and I'm assuming that that is calicium circulating in the blood..all I know is in my own circumstances I had superior mesenteric narrowing and mesenteric celiac narrowing at 48% and the had a lot of gut pain right after eating ..after about 1 week on tower labs heart tech formular all symptoms were gone .and was getting angina like pains when excercising which has disappeared completely now.. my inferior mesenteric arteries are all fine no narrowing at all..
Take care
Joanna

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Re: High CT Scan score after one-year on the Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#6  Post by Johnwen » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:13 pm

Acct005;
I could go into the nuclear hormone receptor PPARy and it’s effects on vascular calcification but that could get a little complicated at this point.
However the simplest approach would be to find out if you are diabetic or pre diabetic or if your exhibit any signs of thyroid malfunction as all these factors go hand in hand with this problem.
Therefore I would like to know if you have had these tests done and if you would share the results with us.
Glucose ??
TSH??
LDL Cholesterol levels??

Next! I have serious doubts that Heart Tech or any other V-C supplement is causing your problems. Because these supplements strengthen the collagen structures that play a very important role in preventing your condition. However if there has been damage done previously which is the reason for the calcification it would take a considerable amount of time for these supplements to correct these issues.
The most prudent approach would be to hold the course and see if there is a progression of the problem. Now according to what I have read in these posts there is an increase being observed therefore some action would be justified.

So we have to look a easily available products that are known to convert Osteoblasts to Osteocasts!!

First is Niacin! Most Niacin supplements carry a reaction with them called “Flushing!” A lot of people quit these supplements because of this, However some can tolerate it. What I found is a product called “Slo Niacin” You take it right before going to bed and sleep thru the initial flush and by the time you get up you might feel some slight tingling but doable! I would say 2-500mg tablets to start.

Next is “Resveratrol,” Here you get what you pay for! You need one that has the “EXTRACT of the Polygonum Cuspidatum root!” A lot of these products out there just say the root. Which is not the extract where the true benefit is!

Then the omega 3 fatty acids which are very effective in this process they include Fish Oil, Krill Oil, Astraxanthin. Fish Oil is the cheapest but a lot of people can’t stand the large size caps! The other two are usually more expensive but can be effective.

We then have the homebrew concoction! This is 2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar and 2 teaspoons of Honey mixed in 8 oz. of water and consumed!
Haven’t seen it work but people have said it does ???

Medically, TZD’s are usually used to counteract these problems but carry a lot of side effects some which are severe.

Don’t skip your V-C Not even for a single day!!

Hope this helps!
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Re: High CT Scan score after one-year on the Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#7  Post by acct005 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:34 pm

Johnwen,
Thanks for your reply. In response to your question, my readings are as follows (from tests a week ago):
Glucose=92 mg/dL
TSH=1.51 uIU/mL (from 10/2014, don't have current TSH)
LDL Cholesterol levels=117 mg/dL

I appreciate your suggestions for supplements, but I have to ask if you, or anyone else on this forum, if you know of anyone who has actually been able to reverse the progression their arteriosclerosis from taking any of these supplements? I have searched this forum and so far have not seen anyone with arteriosclerosis have any success stop it from progressing or getting better by taking vitamin C, K, and associated supplements. With my CT scan score indicating high probably of having a heart attack within the next 2-5 years and the clock ticking, I cannot afford the risk of trying something that "might" work.

Regards,
Ed

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Re: High CT Scan score after one-year on the Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:52 am

Remember, your "heart" condition is really an arterial condition, and we have discovered (at the same time we found out how powerful vitamin K can be) that when the arteries harden, they don't necessarily narrow. The CEO of Tower had a very high CT-scan score after being on his own product for years! He checked himself in for an angiogram. His arteries were "wide open." So we theorized that if you think of the artery as a pipe - that unlike other "blockages", when the calcium builds up, it is on the outside of the pipe.

One year later, after taking vitamin K daily - the only thing he did differently - his arterial stiffness became normal. One thing I might do in your case, is change the brand of vitamin K. I trust Super-K from LEF.ORG.

Now I see johnwen is suspecting some abnormality in calcium processing, but rereading your dosage - it is very low! About one tenth a milligram (100 micrograms)! I have seen discussions here at this forum where dosages of perhaps 25 milligrams of vitamin K2 are recommended. Something like 2500 times as much as you are currently taking. Again, I have confidence that for most people, 1 super-K (LEF.ORG) should do the trick, but as johnwen cautioned, this is not overnight like the Pauling Therapy usually is for most people suffering chronic scurvy.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: High CT Scan score after one-year on the Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#9  Post by acct005 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:40 pm

ofonorow,
Thanks, I will check out the Super-K.

Can you clarify "... his arterial stiffness became normal."? Does that mean he had another CT Scan done that now showed a coronary calcium score of zero? If not, do you know of any cases where someone's coronary calcium score improved or stop accelerating after taking the aforementioned vitamin supplements?

Thanks,
Ed


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