Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Alafairsmom
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Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#1  Post by Alafairsmom » Fri May 05, 2017 7:12 pm

I have been reading the posts here and am following each of the recommendations summarized in Ch 7 of Practicing Medicine Without a License since April 1. I was taking everything in pill or capsule form, and got up to 12-15 grams of ascorbic acid daily in about a week without digestive issues, and after talking with Sally Jewell ordered 2 jars of Ascorsine 9, beginning it April 12. 2 scoops proved too much for my digestive tract, and the calculated amount I was to take is 6 total scoops a day, but take one at a time in 8 oz water. That is generally well tolerated, sometimes just barely. I switched brands of vitamin E and K to Unique E and Life Extension vitamin K. The only thing I cannot take at the highest recommended dose is C. 9 or 10 grams is my max. I do have LipoC, which is how I sometimes get 10 grams in a day. I'm on my 3rd jar, and am on autoship for 3 jars at a time. I'm coming upon a month with mild improvement. Diagnosed with ASHD in November, refused a cath, had a CT, which shows blockages and very high calcium. I'm type 2 diabetic for about 3 years. I got so sick on metformin and glyburide that I looked for an alternative, and found Bernstein and Atkins. My glucose normalized in a week on very low carb, with a starting HgbA1c of 11.8, now 5.8, Diet only. Except for Pauling Therapy, I'm taking only Imdur, 60 mg daily, with nitro SL 0-4 times a day. I refused statins and beta blockers and blood thinners. Just Pauling and Owen's extras in PMWAL (and this new guy, Lunes Payling...he seems pretty smart, too.) Anyway, do you suggest any increases in anything? I will keep trying to up the C, but currently it's bombing my system at/after 10 grams per day, spread out in 2-3 hour increments. I appreciate any advice, but not interested in plant based. Diabetics understand why I say this. We simply cannot process carbohydrates, even complex ones, the same as non-diabetics. I'm content to wait for the cure, and am faithfully taking all the supplements. If there's more I can do, please let me know. I don't know my Lpa yet, but have labs and CT scores, if you want to know them. Thank you very much.

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#2  Post by guitarplayer007 » Fri May 05, 2017 8:29 pm

Read Dr. Neal Barnard or look him on youtube to reverse diabetes

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#3  Post by Alafairsmom » Fri May 05, 2017 8:40 pm

If you know HgbA1c you know it is well controlled at 5.8. Your views are not necessarily those of Vitamin C Foundation. Thanks anyway. I'm looking for Pauling responses.

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#4  Post by guitarplayer007 » Sat May 06, 2017 8:57 am

Well we both have Angina so lets work together....My angina shows up as pressure in my face, do you get your in your chest?

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Thu May 25, 2017 12:26 pm

Thanks for the comprehensive post, sorry I missed it. (We have been a little busy here). It sounds like you are doing the correct things, and I too love Bernstein, except for his bad advice regarding vitamin C! And I agree, the new guy Payling is pretty darn smart.

So elevated blood sugar would crowd out vitamin C, but by following Bernstein it sounds like your sugar is under control mitigating that potential issue.

My own father could only tolerate about 200 milligrams of vitamin C before spending the day on the pot. (And he almost never got a cold..) If liposomal vitamin C had been invented, he would have lived much longer than age 68. Never smoked. Didn't drink. Etc. So my half-brother Michael S. Till, Sr., was more like our father than like me in that while I can take 20,000 of vitamin C as ascorbic acid with nary any reaction, my half-brother spent a lot of time on the pot because he knew he had heart disease and the dosages that Pauling recommended to counter.

So the problem is that we "vitamin C mutants" were designed to make our vitamin C, not eat it. Now that our only option is eating it, some of us have great difficulty. I would have thought True-liposomal vitamin C is the answer, but 2 to 3 extra grams per day in the case of my Brother were not enough. I surmise that if you switch to liposomal (after determining your tolerance for ordinary powder) the amount should still add up to 5-10 grams in absolute vitamin C. Furthermore, there may be some effect lost as liposomes enter cells, as the Pauling anti-plaque effect occurs in the blood.

So what do we know.

A) With lower blood sugar, and a more "Paleo"-like diet, much less vitamin C is required. You may be able to take less, and use total cholesterol as an indicator. If your total cholesterol is around (or below) 180 mg/dl, you are probably close to optimal, even if you are taking much less than the "guaranteed" dosage of 10,000 mg of vitamin C daily.

B) Thanks to Hickey/Roberts Dynamic Flow, we understand that vitamin C flows through the body and has a very short half life. Yes I can take 9,000 mg at one time - every 12 hours, but the maximum blood levels can be maintained with much smaller amounts taken more frequently. Its been a while (Read the great book ASCORBATE: THE SCIENCE OF VITAMIN C (Hickey/Roberts) but I believe that 500 mg (assuming the loss from oral intake) every 3 to 4 hours keeps blood levels at their maximum, or will once your tissues become saturated. So you could set a timer on your watch, and take a 500 mg vitamin C tablet, capsule or chewable every 3 hours. If that is still too much, then every 3.5 hours.. and if that is still too much, every 4 hours. There is a good time release to then take before bed.

Let us know how it goes.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#6  Post by guitarplayer007 » Thu May 25, 2017 12:32 pm

I hope to god 5his Vitamin C works to reverse my plaque

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#7  Post by pamojja » Thu May 25, 2017 12:56 pm

guitarplayer007 wrote:I hope to god 5his Vitamin C works to reverse my plaque


Preying is good, following his advise even better:

How to Live Longer and Feel Better:

  • Take vitamin C every day, 6 grams to 18 g (6000 to 18,000 miligrams), or more. Do not miss a single day.
  • Take vitamin E every day, 400 IU, 800 IU, or 1600 IU.
  • Take one or two Super-B tablets every day, to provide good amounts of the B-vitamins.
  • Take 25,000 IU vitamin A tablet every day.
  • Take a mineral supplement every day, such as one tablet of the Bronson vitamin-mineral formula, which provides 100 mg of calcium, 18 mg of iron, 0.15 mg of iodine, 1 mg of copper, 25 mg of magnesium, 3 mg of manganese, 15 mg of zinc, 0.015 mg of molybdenum, 0.015 mg of chromium, and 0.015 mg of selenium.
  • Keep your intake of ordinary sugar (sucrose, raw sugar, brown sugar, honey) to 50 pounds per year, which is half the present U.S. average. Do not add sugar to tea or coffee. Do not eat high-sugar foods. Avoid sweet desserts. Do not drink soft drink.
  • Except for avoiding sugar, eat what you like - but not too much of any one food. Eggs and meat are good foods. Also you should eat some vegetables and fruits. Do not eat so much food as to become obese.
  • Drink plenty of water every day.
  • Keep active; take some exercise. Do not at any time exert yourself physically to an extent far beyond what you are accustomed to.
  • Drink alcoholic beverages only in moderation.
  • Do not smoke cigarettes.
  • Avoid stress. Work at a job that you like. Be happy with your family.

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#8  Post by pamojja » Thu May 25, 2017 12:59 pm

Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?


I made the funny experience that above 160 mg of CoQ10 (half that dose with Ubiqunol) got rid of my angina-like chest pains. Think worth to try, and playing with different doses.

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#9  Post by guitarplayer007 » Thu May 25, 2017 1:07 pm

I take two scoops of Cardio C and make up the difference using Vitamin C powder. Can we use capsules for some of out vitamin c? Using the powder I take 1 teaspoon per dose whispered is 4000 grams, it's kind of harsh on the throat. I would like to know which type of vitamin c capsules to take if any.
Thanks
Ken

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#10  Post by pamojja » Thu May 25, 2017 1:14 pm

Pauling took ascorbic acid powder in water with a bid of sodium bicarbonate. Which does makes it a bid milder.

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#11  Post by guitarplayer007 » Thu May 25, 2017 1:55 pm

OK so nobody takes vitamin C capsules? I really don't if it works. When you listen to Dr.Rath from the 2015 symposium, he makes it seem so easy to reverse. I've watched that video like 25 times lol

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#12  Post by guitarplayer007 » Thu May 25, 2017 3:59 pm


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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#13  Post by ofonorow » Fri May 26, 2017 6:54 am

Zarfas et. al. - know that the status of the forum w/r to current Federal Law is unknown, and that ANY reference to a particular product will most likely cause the post to be deleted.

We hope to find a final resting place for this forum where mentioning products isn't taboo.

Also the suggestion to add CoQ10 to help end Angina is brilliant! (Because so many people are on the statin-cholesterol-lowering drugs which among many adverse affects, block the body's own production of CoQ10. I have heard 200 mg is a good amount, but I would probably take at least 600 mg (200 mg 3 times daily) to see if that could eliminate the angina pain..
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#14  Post by guitarplayer007 » Fri May 26, 2017 7:28 am

How could taking more Coq10 relieve Angina. Angina is caused by narrowing of the arteries

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Re: Should I add anything to Pauling Therapy to end angina?

Post Number:#15  Post by Alafairsmom » Fri May 26, 2017 10:16 am

Sorry in advance for the long post, but I put my labs out here. If you read this, Johnwen, could you comment?

Owen, yes, I have been following the trials that have kept you so very busy. It's been quite a ride, yes? Sigh.

Ken, your cells absolutely must have CoQ10 in energy production/use in mitochondria (energy factories in your cells). People who take statins have their CoQ10 stores sucked right out of them. The heart is muscle. It needs the cells to be working properly. Without energy, or with inadequate energy cells can't function or die. Disease is almost never as simple as what we think it is, and there are a lot of interrelated processes.

Pamojja, I do take two 100 mg CoQ10 (ubiquinol) in the AM and PM. I follow PT at max except when I can't get the C higher right now, but keep trying. (I'm an RN; if I am at my desk job I can and do take C every 3 hours or so. On days I am driving some distance to several patient visits, I don't dare do that, but as soon as I feel comfortable that I won't have an undesirable bathroom emergency, go back to the doses. I usually do 1500 mg at a time.) Liposomal C does not give me cramps or gas, but still results in loose BM in the AM.

I developed stable angina in November of this past year, and it felt like out of the blue. I saw a cardiologist, and I'm lucky that while he makes only standard medical recommendations, he kindly tolerates my persistent refusal to follow them. I only agreed to med management: Imdur (long acting nitroglycerin) 15 mg daily to start with Nitro SL, now up to 60 mg Imdur every 12 hours. I have never had an MI according to all the tests, no stents, no cardiac cath, no bypass. I'm 60, female, obese (160 lbs, 5'5") and once I can increase any activity without angina, I really will work on adding exercise to bring the weight down.

Here are my labs since then:

12/16/2016
Total Chol 533 mg/dL
HDL 82 mg/dL
Trigs 93 mg/dL
LDL (calc) >350 mg/dL
Chol/HDLC ratio 6.6
Non HDL (calc) 451 mg/dL
Hgb A1c 6 (5.8 on 3/14)
Magnesium RBC 5.6 mg/dL

2/13/2017
CAC Total Score 1426.93 (made me throw up a little in my mouth)
L MCA 0
L AD 292.66
L CCA 0
R CA 1132.28 (made me want to lie down, and my pulse increased quite a bit on seeing the score)
EF 42% ** ** given 300 mg Metoprolol and 10 mg Ivabradine to brady heart rate for test (over 4 hours)

3/14/2017 Magnesium 2.2 mg/dL
Phosphate/Phosphorus 4.0 mg/dL
PTH, Intact 42 mg/dL
TSH 2.77
PTH-RP 18 pg/mL
HS CRP 9.4 mg/dL
Fasting Glucose 110 mg/dL
BUN 16 mg/Dl
Creat 0.69 mg/dL
eGFR Non-AA 95 mg/dL
Sodium 140 mmol/L
Potassium 3.6 mmol/L
Chloride 104 mmol/L
Carbon Dioxide 27 mmol/L
Calcium 10.0 mg/dL
Ion Calcium 5.4 mg/dL
Total Protein 7.1 g/dL
Albumin 4.3 g/dL
Globulin 2.8 g/dL
Alb/Glob Ratio 1.5
Total Bilirubin 0.4 mg/dL
Alk Phos 48 U/L
AST 12 U/L
ALT 16 U/L
Hgb A1c 5.8
Vit D3 36 ng/mL
Vit D2 <4 ng/dL
Fructsamine 230 umol/L
Creat, random urine 65 mg/dL
Microalbum/Creat Ratio 3 mg/dL
Random

I'm not due for scheduled labs until September, but the cardiology PA is very accommodating, and I think he will order anything I ask. I plan to ask for Cardio IQ advanced lipid/inflammation profile, which will size and count particles; homocysteine; Vitamin K, and repeat D2/D3. Anything else important?

I am no expert, but I think my thyroid scores indicate some hypothyroidism. These were ordered by my endocrinologist, and I am surprised he didn't want to tweak it. He is abhorrent of supplements, even a multiple vitamin, but genuinely thinks metformin and high dose statins should be in public drinking water. I keep him because ever 3-6 months he orders labs by filling out the lab slip and sending it home with me. I usually add labs to the slip; while he doesn't really like that, he hasn't fired me over it. So far.

I appreciate any supplement feedback. Feel free to email or PM me if that is safer/easier. Again, am on full PT protocol from PMWAL. I recently added tart cherry extract capsules (1 carb vs 28 carbs for the juice), green tea extract, and am about to start Niacin (extended release nicotinic acid) at 250 mg a day and titrate up slowly. I don't like starting a lot of new things all at the same time (if there's a problem, which one caused it?) but will add with a few days in between. If there are supplements that conflict, please let me know. I do take the water soluble apart from meals, and the fat soluble/needs food at meal times. I typically eat twice a day, often once, but if only once, take fat soluble with one or two BabyBel cheese or the like.

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate this forum. It has helped me process a lot of information, and some distressing labs/tests, allowing me to navigate it on my own terms.


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