Vitamin K

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Frodo
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Vitamin K

Post Number:#1  Post by Frodo » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:41 pm

Which form of vitamin K is best for cardiovascular disease? I currently only take K2 MK7. Would a combination of K1, K2 MK4 and K2 MK7 (perhaps Super K from Life Extension) be better?
What do you prefer?

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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#2  Post by Joanna45 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:47 pm

I use super K from life extension.com as it has all the K’s plus mK7

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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#3  Post by BrightSideOfLife » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:53 am

I stopped using Life Extension Super K some years back because it was shown to be of inferior quality by two labs, one in Europe and another in the States. For years they were selling that deceiving their customers who put their health and money on that supplement only to be let down by LE.

I moved to Vit K2-MK7 600mgx2 and now 500mgx2/d and I was using a 15mg Vit K2-MK4 until the price dramatically rose and it was fairly expensive prior to that. I then moved to a 5mg MK4 and now 5x1mg MK4. I think that MK4 is the better and most usable version of vit k which is quickly taken up and used by the body. I use Vit K2-MK7 as a more background, longer term vit k but I am not entirely convinced of it's usefulness and I will most likely stop it soon.

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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:32 pm

Generally, Life Extension's products test well. If you have links to those lab reports for Super-K, I'd appreciate it. I think I did read they reformulated.

In any event, on Super-K, my wife and I have zero calcium as measured by the "Fast CT Scan" test.

I'd be interested in the calcium results of someone, on Pauling's therapy, who only takes one segment or fraction of Vitamin K, e.g. only Mk7.

Also, when we originally read Life Extension's article from the Japanese vitamin K research, the dosages were MICRO grams, not milligrams, and a very low microgram product from a health food store resolved the calcium "problem" in one year (Founder of Tower Labs.)
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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#5  Post by pamojja » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:15 am

ofonorow wrote:
In any event, on Super-K, my wife and I have zero calcium as measured by the "Fast CT Scan" test.


Owen, you never mentioned from how high a CAC score your and your wife reduced after using LEF Super K for 1 year. If it was never tested before (as I have to assume since you never mentioned) your annectotal evidence can't be taken in support of the effectiveness of this product. Some people even in old age with bad life style habits show up with a zero score sometimes. So in your and your wife case the use of Pauling's therapy for years before that CAC score alone is much more likely to have prevented any, than the vitamin K.

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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#6  Post by pamojja » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:20 am

Frodo wrote:Which form of vitamin K is best for cardiovascular disease?


Most the science for which the K vitamins have been tested in respect ot cardiac, bone, kidney, cancer, diabetes and clotting health, can be found here:

http://www.k-vitamins.com/

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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#7  Post by jimmylesante » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:22 pm

Owen, you never mentioned from how high a CAC score your and your wife reduced after using LEF Super K for 1 year. If it was never tested before (as I have to assume since you never mentioned) your annectotal evidence can't be taken in support of the effectiveness of this product. Some people even in old age with bad life style habits show up with a zero score sometimes. So in your and your wife case the use of Pauling's therapy for years before that CAC score alone is much more likely to have prevented any, than the vitamin K.


Probably all that lysine which takes care of calcium in much the same way.

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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:39 am

The link to a post (now) has the story of how we discovered that vitamin C and lysine, at the highest dosages, won't affect calcium scores. I just added it to the bottom of the "Vitamin K" post in the Pauling-therapy section, http://vitamincfoundation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11891&p=53953#p53953

Decker had a fast CT-SCan after several years taking his own Heart Technology. A friend had invented a new type of fast CT-scan and offered to "test" how well Decker's Heart Technology product was working. Decker eagerly took the test, and was shocked by an ultra high calcium score. Shaken, he immediately checked himself into a hospital for an angiogram. The cardiologist told him that his arteries were clear and wide open! No blockages - even with the shockingly high Fast-CT score.
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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#9  Post by pamojja » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:57 am

ofonorow wrote:..that vitamin C and lysine alone will not affect calcium at least in certain individuals, even on a very high PT dose.


Thanks for the clarification, and how this one anecdotal experience made you assume to have happened in your and your wife case too.

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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#10  Post by ofonorow » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:50 am

As far as my wife and I, I was simply reporting. We are happy, and several things make us believe it is the vitamin K that has kept are arteries calcium free. The Life Extension articles explaining the Japanese research, the hundreds of studies showing that Warfarin (and other vitamin K antagonist drugs) cause rapid calcification of soft tissues, the late Sydney Bush's experience with calcification in the eye (rather than easier to reverse white atheromas). And yes, the surprising experience of a 70-year-old man who had been taking large doses of vitamin C and lysine (and proline) but still had high blood pressure, and very high calcium scores, until he added vitamin K (150 micrograms) to his regimen.
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#11  Post by pamojja » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:15 am

ofonorow wrote:very high calcium scores, until he added vitamin K (150 micrograms) to his regimen.


But don't ignore the many cases like me, with a 80% blockage at my abdominal aorta bifurcation. Improved only (walking-disability revoked) through revascularization, since the blockage is still the same after 10 years. I took in average 3.9mg of K1, 13.5mg of K2-mk4 and 0.4mg of K2-mk7 daily during the last 10 years, of which LEF's was the most consistent part of, additional to products of other companies.


PS: However, the aorta is about 2 cm in diameter, with about 80% blockage determined with MRI, and then repeatedly confirmed with sonography - that would amount to 1,6 cm of calcium and debris to be cleared. While most coronary vessels are much smaller. My whole legs vessels have always been surprisingly clear. And at least my carotid intima thickness improved form 1.9mm 5 years ago, down to 1mm now (< 0,9 normal range). An improvement of 0,9 mm, which I think wouldn't show up in such a crude estimations oft 'about 80%' by my internists. How crude one can see in the original MRI converted to a GIF in my dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4m3ae685zj87 ... 1.gif?dl=0

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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#12  Post by johnjackson » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:57 am

ofonorow wrote:As far as my wife and I, I was simply reporting. We are happy, and several things make us believe it is the vitamin K that has kept are arteries calcium free. The Life Extension articles explaining the Japanese research, the hundreds of studies showing that Warfarin (and other vitamin K antagonist drugs) cause rapid calcification of soft tissues, the late Sydney Bush's experience with calcification in the eye (rather than easier to reverse white atheromas). And yes, the surprising experience of a 70-year-old man who had been taking large doses of vitamin C and lysine (and proline) but still had high blood pressure, and very high calcium scores, until he added vitamin K (150 micrograms) to his regimen.


concerned question:
Friend of mine, 70, has A-Fib and is on some drugs for that, and a blood thinner

but he has a low Lp(a) score and Ive told him to take VIt K(from LEF)

will an Lp(a) test give the same results as a calcium score test?
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#13  Post by pamojja » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:03 am

johnjackson wrote:will an Lp(a) test give the same results as a calcium score test?


No.

Lp(a) is a lipoprotein which may damage the endothelium further. It is considered a 'risk factor'. Just like CRP, fibrinogen, insulin, LDL, etc.. Also lifestyles like certain diets, sedentary life-style or smoking are 'risk factors'. Which just means being a factor of many, which may lead to disease progression. On it own it doesn't prove the presence of disease. Only indicating a higher probability of disease.

Coronary calcium on the contrary arteries (CAC), shows the actual extent of the disease present.

If CAC is present, disease is present (to the extent of it's score).
If a risk factor like high Lp(a) shows, disease may or may not be present. It only can show a greater probability of the presence of disease.

One can have high Lp(a) and a zero CAC = no present disease (which doesn't mean it couldn't still develop at a latter time)
One can have low Lp(a) and a very high CAC = disease definitely present! (simply because there are so many other factors which can damage the endothelium)

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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#14  Post by ofonorow » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:38 am

will an Lp(a) test give the same results as a calcium score test?


From my experience, an Lp(a) test is a test for a certain type of lipoprotein (commonly cholesterol) in the BLOOD. The test that measures calcium, is measuring calcium on the walls of arteries.

Either or both cholesterol and/or calcium can develop from cardiovascular disease (AKA Chronic Scurvy if the Pauling unified theory is correct.)

Pauling and Rath identified Lp(a) as the key risk factor, because it acts as a surrogate for low vitamin C to strengthen arteries. These white "plaster casts" (or atherosclerosis) develop after Lp(a) deposits, and it is true, just having a high level in the blood may or may not indicate a current blockage.

We think we know from our experience, that calcium (used to be called arteriosclerosis) accumulates on the outside of an artery.

And what we think we know, is that vitamin C and lysine can clear "soft" atheromas quickly, but that for hardened calcified arteries, vitamin K and time will be required to reverse.

Getting back to the friend's case.


Friend of mine, 70, has A-Fib and is on some drugs for that, and a blood thinner

but he has a low Lp(a) score and Ive told him to take VIt K(from LEF)

will an Lp(a) test give the same results as a calcium score test?


Vitamin K is always good advice.
Is he taking vitamin C and lysine (and vitamin E/CoQ10?)
The blood thinner is no doubt one of the causes of his problems (increases calcium)
He would be lucky if his Lp(a) was really low, but something tells me they "calculated" rather than measured the Lp(a).
(The FDA allowed this many years ago.)
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Vitamin K

Post Number:#15  Post by johnjackson » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:56 am

I dont know if the lp(a) test was calculated or not.
Measuring lp(a) is the best way to test lp(a), not calculated?


--you think the blood thinner he is on to prevent strokes of his A=Fib, causes his A-Fib?
lil paradox there!
he takes some blood thinners and
pradaxa-prevents stroke

diltiazem hydrocholoride--not sure, calcium blocker to slow Heart rate?
sotalol-treats arrhymia?
and for BP, lisinopri--ace inhibitor

The BP meds are most concerning because he isnt fat, BMI 26
so if his arteries were good, he would make enough Nitrix oxide to not have high BP

so I'll suggest he get a CAC test....but if it is HIGH, will that change what he does?


so he is 70 and doesnt like MDs or taking pills,
so lets say he has a high lp(a) and a high CAC test...what to do? cause it all seems

take 10+grams vit C/day spread out over the day, like 1gram every 2-3 hours
take 5+ Lysine/proline
take Vit k2(at least 2 caps from LEF works well)

so that is the basic Pauling therapy plan?

What about other ways to reduce chance of heart disease?
Levy talks about making sure hormones are in range. like thyroid, and testosterone and removing root canals
so I"ll see if I can get him to get a blood test

I mentioned he hates pills...so I have read about success with Cardio-C or Heart tech.
are these powders?
-I am not sure about him supplementing any vit E or cioQ10, he does eat a lot of broccoli((vitE)
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html


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