Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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farside
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Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

Post Number:#1  Post by farside » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:19 am

While I am sold on the need to consume high vitamin C, there are the following puzzling cases:

Nathan Pritikin diet
Nathan Pritikin advocated a strict regimen of exercise and salt-free, low-cholesterol dieting to reverse the symptoms of heart disease. No red meat, but fish was allowed.
Nathan was diagnosed with heart disease at age 42. He applied his diet which worked, as an autopsy undertaken after Pritikin's death in 1985 revealed a near absence of atherosclerosis (only minor fatty streaks), and that the heart's pumping function was completely uncompromised. In the published result of the autopsy, the authors stated "In a man 69 years old, the near absence of atherosclerosis and the complete absence of its effects are remarkable." (Nathan died of suicide after battling leukemia for many years).

Nathan treated Dr Greger's (of 'How not to die' fame) grandmother: She arrived at Pritikin's clinic in a wheelchair, not being able to walk without great pain in her chest and legs. At age 65, doctors said she had only weeks to live. After 3 weeks at the clinic, she was walking 10 miles a day and lived to be 96.

Yanomami Indians
The Yanomami Amazon Indians grow bananas, gather fruit, and hunt animals and fish. 10% of the diet is meat. They consume no added salt. The Yanomami take in less than an estimated 100 mg salt/day. Although they consume no added vitamin C either, atherosclerosis is virtually unknown among them, and they have extraordinarily low blood pressure on average, with no apparent increase as they age.
https://hub.jhu.edu/2018/11/15/yanomami ... -pressure/

Tarahumara
Tarahumara are a group of indigenous people of the Americas living in the state of Chihuahua in Mexico. They are renowned for their long-distance running ability. Their diet is 95% vegan with 5% meat. Their incidence rate is at or near zero in just about every health category, including diabetes, vascular disease, and colorectal cancer.
They drink tesguino, an alcohol made of corn and often smoke a combination of tobacco and dried bats' blood to help them run faster. Anthropologists estimate that approximately 100 days of each year are spent either drinking or recovering from drinking parties. Adulthood is usually short for the Tarahumara with the average life expectancy being forty-five. Yet a recent marathon event was won by a 55 year old.
The Tarahumara get about an RDA of Vitamin C and that’s it, yet the enjoy incredible arterial health.
https://www.peaktestosterone.com/tarahumara_diet/

The benefits of a whole plant food diet are proven, and it appears this can reverse heart disease without taking in large quantities of vitamin C. I wonder how we can explain the above cases? Maybe a combination of plenty of cardiovascular exercise, high vegetable consumption, low animal fat and low salt is what is working? Anyhow, I am not taking any chances and I will be combining a vegan diet with PT to minimise my risk.

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Re: Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

Post Number:#2  Post by johnjackson » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:39 am

I am curious as to what others think and I am subscribing to this thread by writing this post
how much vit C is needed is a variable that requires knowledge of stress, disease and genetics.

100days a year drinking or recovering? wow. so at least 2 days a week? Live had, die fast, eh?
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

Post Number:#3  Post by farside » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:59 am

A quote from 'How not to die' :

"Such lifestyle medicine pioneers as Nathan Pritikin, Dean Ornish, and Caldwell Eselstyn Jr. took patients with adanced heart disease and put them on the kind of plant-based diet followed by Asian and African populations who didn't suffer from heart disease."
"Their heart disease started to reverse. These patients were gettung better. As soon as they stopped eating an artery-clogging diet, their bodies were able to start dissolving away some of the plaque that had built up. Arteries opened up without drugs or surgery, even in some cases of patients with severe triple-vessel heart disease."

I don't know the timescales for these reversals, and clearly not every patient was compleely reversed ("dissolving away some of the plaque", "even in some cases ..."). But clearly doing this type of diet along with PT vastly increases the rate of reversal.

For myself, I had over 50 years of eating animal and dairy products, and only the last two years had I gone vegan. Over the 2 years, there was the very occasional odd day when I ate a pizza or an egg. But this diet alone wasn't enough in my case to prevent a stroke, with a 65% blocked carotid. Maybe I needed to add extra lysine and proline (apparently deficient in vegans), and/or I was consuming too much salt (vegan food can have high salt content, to make it more 'tasty').

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Re: Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

Post Number:#4  Post by farside » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:31 pm

Found this link, referenced elsewhere in the forum:

"Consumption of a defined, plant-based diet reduces lipoprotein(a), inflammation, and other atherogenic lipoproteins and particles within 4 weeks."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30014498

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Re: Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

Post Number:#5  Post by farside » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:41 pm

Perhaps this guy is still eating meat, so PT not working?

PT not helping with high blood pressure:
http://vitamincfoundation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14207

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Re: Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

Post Number:#6  Post by farside » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:47 pm

Not sure if this is the place to put this, but I was amazed by an old post by gofanu :

Subject: VC....... not exactly the results I was looking for!!!

gofanu wrote: ... Then I went back to my preferred home fries, sausage, butter, cheese and the fat went away immediately (a week) and I felt great. I eat a lot of eggs, onions, and a lot of potatoes, which I never peel, since the peel is where all the minerals are. I cook with butter, olive oil, coconut oil. I use no sugar nor substitutes, live on coffee with whole milk. Now living alone, I still use 2 gallons of milk or more per week and it all goes in my coffee. Lots of home grown blueberries and raspberries, frequently on cheesecake or in yoghurt. Just like the Weston Price people say. Don't have a Doctor, my house is at 62 degrees and my bedroom is usually around 40 in winter. If I don't eat my usual, I'll freeze to death. I can and this winter have shoveled snow all day. At 64 I look exactly like I did at 34, same weight, same pants, same belt - 5"7" 155lbs.


I PM'd gofanu the following message, but he hasn't been active on this forum since 2016:

gofanu - this is quite amazing, just want to confirm if it is true! Most people get hung up about cholesterol levels because they subscribe to the lipid theory of vascular disease.

The Pauling theory simply says it isn't the fat levels, it's low intake of vitamin C. Surprisingly, many members in this forum still appear to follow the lipid theory. You provide a perfect example of why the lipid theory must be false (or you have exceptional genetics!). So - do you really consume all that animal fat? Have you ever had vascular disease?

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Re: Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

Post Number:#7  Post by johnjackson » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:53 pm

farside wrote:Not sure if this is the place to put this, but I was amazed by an old post by gofanu :
e]


I'm not sure of your point?

I know smokers who are 80s and just normal people, no cough, no illness.
I know people who eat high fat, high calorie diets and arent fat or ill..

good genes are at work here.

science of a low fat, high nitrate diet and PT arent wrong. Id rather bank on science then having good genes
I'll take both though :lol:
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

Post Number:#8  Post by farside » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:27 am

I'm not sure of your point?


It's just that following a 'good' diet hasn't always worked for some people (including me). Maybe my genetics is such that I need to get some meat and dairy, but too scared to do so when I read how bad these are for you.

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Re: Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

Post Number:#9  Post by farside » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:51 am

A study case showing benefit of a diet approach:

A plant-based diet and heart failure: case report and literature review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466944/
"To our knowledge, this is the first report of an improvement in heart failure symptoms and left ventricular ejection fraction following adoption of a plant-based diet."
"Our report adds to the growing body of evidence that plant-based foods are beneficial for cardiovascular health."

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Re: Can diet alone prevent / reverse arterial disease?

Post Number:#10  Post by Robert » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:21 pm

There's such a huge difference between preventing heart disease through a lifetime of correct nutrition and reversing arterial disease in late life.


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