Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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ron.brown1963
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Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#1  Post by ron.brown1963 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:58 pm

Hello,

Thanks for accepting me to this forum.
I have read Practicing Medicine Without a License.
I have stable angina pain with exertion.
56 year old male, active lifestyle.
Performed a CAC scan, total calcium score, 468. The majority of calcium was in LAD,(Left Anterior Descending) with LAD score 440.

I am currently on the Pauling Protocol for the last 8 months.
I plan on re-performing the CAC scan at one year interval to check for observable results.
To date, I have not seen any results for less angina pain with exertion, nor have I seen any change in the amount of exertion required to initiate angina pain.
I am not and have not taken any medications other than protocol below.

Currently taking daily for last 8 months:

Vit. C...18 grams
Lysine...6 grams
Proline...3 grams
Vit K2/Mk7...600mcg
Vit E...900IU
Aspirin...160mg
Kyolic Aged garlic...3.6 grams
Omega fish oil...30 grams
Magnesium...300mg
CoQ10...300mg

Low Carb diet, lots of water, no sugar.

To be honest, after reading the Pauling Protocol book and the many accounts of blockages cleared; I thought this was the way to go and I had a good chance of healing myself if this protocol worked.
As you all know...the doctors and researchers do not have any faith in this protocol, as they point to lack of evidence or research data to prove it.
I have done hours and hours of reading. The rebuttals of, "the Vit C dosages were not high enough during testing trials"
"The medical/pharmaceutical system does not want a cheap cure for coronary blockages."

I can discount all that, especially if I have a good result. But so far, it is not looking good.

Do any other members on this forum have experience with following Vit C protocol and not clearing the coronary blockages?

Thanks,
Ron Brown

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#2  Post by Robert » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:02 am

Why low carb? Meta analyses of seventeen observational studies of >270,000 people concluded that low-carbohydrate diets increase mortality risk.

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#3  Post by ron.brown1963 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:17 am

Thanks for the reply.
To start, I lost 60 lbs on my current low carb, no sugar diet. I had the angina before I started the low carb diet. I feel great since going on the low carb diet a couple years ago....just this darn angina, which led me to performing a CAC scan. I was hoping that going low carb and losing the weight would help with my angina...nope..
I have read a lot of the observational studies...they are just that, observational...not clinical trials.
"However, this analysis is based on limited observational studies and large-scale trials on the complex interactions between low-carbohydrate diets and long-term outcomes are needed."
Heck...it could be because people that choose low carb diets are more likely to ride motorcycles, drink whiskey and smoke....thats the problem with "observational" studies....no controls, just an observation of self reporting subjects.

If we went by studies...I don't think the Vit C therapy would rank high in any studies. I tried looking for clinical studies that lend credence to this therapy...not much found after the initial testing years ago, which was inconclusive, or disproved the Vit C therapy, depending on how you look at it.
Before the Vit C folks jump on me....I realize the testing did not include the high dosages we are taking.

I am onboard with the Vit C...but I think if after one year I don't see results, probably need to move in a different direction.

I will stick with the Pauling Therapy for at least a year...I am 8 months in. After one year I will re-scan to see if there is any improvement in my coronary calcium/plaque. I would be happy if it would just help my angina, but I can't notice any change after 8 months of dosage.

I thought maybe someone on this forum might give me some input on their path....maybe they performed the same test of PT. using angina and or CAC scan?

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#4  Post by DiverDown2 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:32 am

I am no expert, but I would raise magnesium to 1200 mg. daily (400 mg. x 3 ), maybe check potassium level, and raise Nitric Oxide levels, be sure you get enough B vitamins especially B6,B12,B4 and Folic acid.
Once I raised magnesium to 1200 mg. daily and take potassium 4 x wk. and keep N.O. levels up and started B-Complex 2x daily and extra B6, I stopped having any angina or skip beats.

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#5  Post by johnjackson » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:10 pm

Robert wrote:Why low carb? Meta analyses of seventeen observational studies of >270,000 people concluded that low-carbohydrate diets increase mortality risk.

that;s a great question, I know a lot of people on atkins/keto/carnivore diets, or whatever the latest term is for a low/no carb diet
why?
Ketosis/low carb/ diet is great if you have adolescent epilepsy
and it is a great way to lose water weight(sugar get stored as glycogen(sugar+water), use the stored glycogen, and dont replace it, you lose all that water, which can mean 10-20+lbs of water weight lost depending on your size

problems are numerous with keto diets:
no metabolic advantage, so keto vs sugar diet, you still lose fat at the same rate
https://bodyrecomposition.com/research/ ... view.html/

or this dude who just tracked calories andf lost fat eat mostly junk food
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/tw ... index.html


limited choices
high fat diet isnt as healthy as a low fat one via dr john mcdougal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyRuDpqYuvY

the healthiest diets have lots of fruits/veggies
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#6  Post by ron.brown1963 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:21 pm

DiverDown2 wrote:I am no expert, but I would raise magnesium to 1200 mg. daily (400 mg. x 3 ), maybe check potassium level, and raise Nitric Oxide levels, be sure you get enough B vitamins especially B6,B12,B4 and Folic acid.
Once I raised magnesium to 1200 mg. daily and take potassium 4 x wk. and keep N.O. levels up and started B-Complex 2x daily and extra B6, I stopped having any angina or skip beats.


Thanks for your input...so far you are the only response to the original question as to whether the PT actually works for clearing coronary calcium/plaque....or helping with angina.
Everyone else seems to be concentrated on my low carb diet.
I will try raising my magnesium level and try some potassium.
To be honest, I forgot to include that I have started taking neo40 for nitric oxide
Thanks again.

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#7  Post by ron.brown1963 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:00 pm

johnjackson wrote:
Robert wrote:Why low carb? Meta analyses of seventeen observational studies of >270,000 people concluded that low-carbohydrate diets increase mortality risk.

that;s a great question, I know a lot of people on atkins/keto/carnivore diets, or whatever the latest term is for a low/no carb diet
why?
Ketosis/low carb/ diet is great if you have adolescent epilepsy
and it is a great way to lose water weight(sugar get stored as glycogen(sugar+water), use the stored glycogen, and dont replace it, you lose all that water, which can mean 10-20+lbs of water weight lost depending on your size

problems are numerous with keto diets:
no metabolic advantage, so keto vs sugar diet, you still lose fat at the same rate
https://bodyrecomposition.com/research/ ... view.html/

or this dude who just tracked calories andf lost fat eat mostly junk food
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/tw ... index.html


limited choices
high fat diet isnt as healthy as a low fat one via dr john mcdougal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyRuDpqYuvY



the healthiest diets have lots of fruits/veggies




https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions ... ate-diets/

The DIRECT study compared low-carb, low-fat, and Mediterranean-style diets and found that after 2 years, weight loss and maintenance were better for low-carb and Mediterranean-style diets as compared to low-fat diets.
The diets also had different effects on heart disease risk factors.
The low-carb diet was most beneficial for lowering triglycerides, the main fat-carrying particle in the bloodstream, and also delivered the biggest boost in protective HDL cholesterol.
Low carbohydrate diets and heart disease
Research shows that a moderately low-carbohydrate diet can help the heart, as long as protein and fat selections come from healthy sources.

A 20-year prospective study of 82,802 women looked at the relationship between lower carbohydrate diets and heart disease; a subsequent study looked at lower carbohydrate diets and risk of diabetes. Women who ate low-carbohydrate diets that were high in vegetable sources of fat or protein had a 30 percent lower risk of heart disease (4) and about a 20 percent lower risk of type 2 diabetes, (34) compared to women who ate high-carbohydrate, low-fat diets. But women who ate low-carbohydrate diets that were high in animal fats or proteins did not see any such benefits. (4,34)
More evidence of the heart benefits from a lower-carbohydrate approach comes from a randomized trial known as the Optimal Macronutrient Intake Trial for Heart Health (OmniHeart). (35) A healthy diet that replaced some carbohydrate with protein or fat did a better job of lowering blood pressure and “bad” LDL cholesterol than a healthy, higher-carbohydrate diet.
Similarly, the small “EcoAtkins” weight loss trial compared a low-fat, high-carbohydrate vegetarian diet to a low-carbohydrate vegan diet that was high in vegetable protein and fat. While weight loss was similar on the two diets, study subjects who followed the low-carbohydrate “EcoAtkins” diet saw improvements in blood lipids and blood pressure. (36)

https://healthdaddy.org/studies-on-low- ... fat-diets/

1. Sondike SB, et al. Effects of a low-carbohydrate diet on weight loss and cardiovascular risk factor in overweight adolescents. The Journal of Pediatrics, 2003.

Details: In 2003, the Journal of Pediatrics conducted a 12-week study to determine the effects of a low-carbohydrate diet on overweight, adolescent individuals with risk factors for cardiovascular disease.
Results Of The Study: The low-carbohydrate group lost an average of 21.8 pounds while the low-fat group lost an average of 9 pounds. Plus, the low-carbohydrate group had significant improvements in their triglyceride and cholesterol levels.



We could go back and forth all day with studies and research concerning low carb diets.
Healthy low carb diets have plenty of veggies, just not the fruit.

I have lost 60 lbs all while gaining muscle mass in the last 2 years, and never felt better.
The proof for me is in the real time testing...for me, low carb has won out as a new way of eating, as it has proved itself, real time.

Vitamin C therapy...not so much so far.
I am still hopefully waiting to see some real time results.
New Coronary CAC scan in a few more months!

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#8  Post by johnjackson » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:47 am

good luck with the new CAC scan
a low carb diet is great for lowering blood pressure for sure, as is mentioned above

when it comes to weight loss, do whatever works!!
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#9  Post by Robert » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:49 am

Low-carb diets and their long term effects on mortality and heart disease are extremely well studied as many diabetics went down that route. It works in the short and mid-term period. It isn't helping your heart disease. There's a new book out called Mastering Diabetes: this is their online library of research https://www.masteringdiabetes.org/bookinfo/ An oddly high amount of this book is about diet and CVD. I think your answers are in here.

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#10  Post by johnjackson » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:53 pm

interesting as I clicked on the page and a topic poppped up
Low-fat, plant-based, whole-food nutrition

Learn the science behind eating nutrient-dense, carbohydrate-rich food to reverse insulin resistance

which Isnt low carb
which is the same topic that Dr John MCdougal preaches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyRuDpqYuvY



so where in your link is there anything about low carb?
I have diabetic friends and family and Im wanting to know what's best/
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#11  Post by Robert » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:10 pm

johnjackson wrote:where in your link is there anything about low carb?


The book is a presentation of 100 years of diabetes research, it promotes the high-carb low-fat dietary models against the sympton masking low-carb diet ubiquitous in diabetes circles.

The thesis is that controlling diabetes (and weight) by low-carb diets works well in the short-medium term but in the long term leads to cardiac death and other mortalities.

[51] P. Lagiou et al., “Low Carbohydrate-High Protein Diet and Mortality in a Cohort of Swedish Women.” Journal of Internal Medicine 261, no. 4 (April 2007): 366–74. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2796.2007.01774.x

[53] A. Trichopoulou et al., “Low-Carbohydrate-High-Protein Diet and Long-Term Survival in a General Population Cohort.” European Journal of Clinical Nutrition 61, no. 5 (May 2007): 575–81. https://doi.org/10.1038/sj.ejcn.1602557
The authors further stated that “these findings support the hypothesis that the short-term benefits of low- carbohydrate diets for weight loss are potentially irrelevant.”

[77] Thomas P. Lyon et al., “Lipoproteins and Diet in Coronary Heart Disease—A Five-Year Study.” California Medicine 84, no. 5 (May 1956): 325–28. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13316532.

[78] A. G. Shaper and K. W. Jones, “Serum-Cholesterol, Diet, and Coronary Heart-Disease in Africans and Asians in Uganda: 1959.” International Journal of Epidemiology 41, no. 5 (October 2012): 1221–25. https://doi.org/10.1093/ije/dys137
Those taught to eat a low- fat diet high in carbohydrate- rich foods such as fruits, starchy vegetables, legumes, and whole grains experienced a regression in coronary artery disease and experienced fewer cardiac events.

[79] Dean Ornish et al., “Intensive Lifestyle Changes for Reversal of Coronary Heart Disease.” JAMA 280, no. 23 (December 16, 1998): 2001–7. https://doi.org/10.1001/jama.280.23.2001
Five patients who dropped out of the study went on to experience a total of ten more cardiac events!

[80] C. B. Esselstyn et al., “A Strategy to Arrest and Reverse Coronary Artery Disease: A 5-Year Longitudinal Study of a Single Physician’s Practice.” The Journal of Family Practice 41, no. 6 (December 1995): 560–68. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7500065

[81] Caldwell B. Esselstyn et al., “A Way to Reverse CAD?” The Journal of Family Practice 63, no. 7 (July 2014): 356–364b. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25198208

[82] Satish K. Gupta et al., “Regression of Coronary Atherosclerosis through Healthy Lifestyle in Coronary Artery Disease Patients—Mount Abu Open Heart Trial.” Indian Heart Journal 63, no. 5 (October 2011): 461–69. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23550427
the Tsimane “have the lowest reported levels of coronary artery disease of any population recorded to date,” it’s certainly worth paying attention to their lifelong dietary habits.

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#12  Post by ron.brown1963 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:10 am

johnjackson wrote:interesting as I clicked on the page and a topic poppped up
Low-fat, plant-based, whole-food nutrition

Learn the science behind eating nutrient-dense, carbohydrate-rich food to reverse insulin resistance

which Isnt low carb
which is the same topic that Dr John MCdougal preaches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyRuDpqYuvY



so where in your link is there anything about low carb?
I have diabetic friends and family and Im wanting to know what's best/



Yeah....not sure what you are clicking on, but I provided two links:


1. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions ... ate-diets/

Which compares low carb diets to low fat diets, with low carb winning out.


2. https://healthdaddy.org/studies-on-low- ... fat-diets/

Which compares low carb with low fat diets reviewing 27 studies.
Again...low carb comes out looking pretty good.

I am not diabetic, I recently performed my yearly medical for overseas offshore work:
HbA1c =4.9%
Triglycerides 1.00 mmol/L
Both normal healthy readings...remember I have been eating low carb for over 2 years!
Lost 60 lbs within the 1st year and have kept if off.
My overall health is good, I have great energy, my gut health is better, no more acid indigestion

I am the poster boy for a low carb lifestyle!

As I said previously...all these reviewed studies are good for research, but it all comes back to the same thing...RESULTS!
I have had very good results in the over 2 years I have been on the low carb way of eating...I will be the 1st to raise my hand if that changes.

Back to Vitamin C therapy for clearing coronary calcium/plaque
I was willing to forge ahead, despite not seeing many good reviews of this therapy...it sounds so promising.
I have been very dedicated to reading the literature and following the Vit C, Lysine, Proline, and misc. supplements.
I will sing it from the roof tops if I see some verifiable results, either a lessening of angina pain with exertion, or a clinical observation of any clearing of calcium/plaque with my next CAC scan.
I know if I go to see a coronary specialist he will tell me they need to stent me.

Not pointing any fingers....but it seems like most on here want to deflect the conversation to something else beside the Vit C therapy for clearing coronary blockages.

I think I am in the correct forum topic?
Heart Disease: Linus Pauling's Vitamin C/Lysine Therapy

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#13  Post by johnjackson » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:28 am

ron.brown1963 wrote:Not pointing any fingers....but it seems like most on here want to deflect the conversation to something else beside the Vit C therapy for clearing coronary blockages.

I think I am in the correct forum topic?
Heart Disease: Linus Pauling's Vitamin C/Lysine Therapy


well, you deflected different topics

1 fat loss
2 best diet for diabetics

my points are clear
there is no metabolic advantage to not eating sugar for dieting: dieting is about calories, mostly

and for diabetic diet, low fat, with high veggies looks great
sure, a keto diet also keeps down BS, but is a high fat diet healthy? or a high protein diet?

as for clearing cornary arteries, yes
vit C
proline/lysine
vit K2
serraptase
niacin
are all whiat you should be taking
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#14  Post by ron.brown1963 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:55 pm

Thanks for the feedback on low carb diets, diabetics, and fat loss.
I think I will stay on the low carb healthy diet, as it appears to be a winner for me, as you can see from my results and blood tests.



Back to my original post;
Does anyone on this forum have any personal experience, or personal knowledge of someone that has actually had coronary calcium/plaque, that showed up in a CAC scan or other means of testing or had stable angina?
If so...I would like to hear from them on their results using the PT.

I would think the Vit C forum would have a good number of personal success stories that could be shared...that way I could ask some pertinent questions directly to the person that had a good or no result with Vit C.

Vitamin C therapy...coronary calcium/plaque

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Re: Trying Vitamin C therapy for partially blocked coronary artery

Post Number:#15  Post by johnjackson » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:51 am

I am also very curious about this, as my mom as high Lp(a) and calcification in her Coronary arteries


Ron,
I hope I didnt come off against what you were posting....I did say in post 8: "when it comes to weight loss, do whatever works!!"

like this guy, who ate 20% plant based diet and 80 % junk food, but tracked calories and lost bodyfat and lower lipids
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/tw ... index.html


you are doing one of the hardest things, losing weight
keep it up!
/www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php


medcraveonline.com/JCCR/JCCR-09-00341.php

//riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

lpa
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/lipoprotein_a.html


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