Absorption of vitamin C

[gmdodaro]

I found some old tests by Genova Diagnostics that might explain why I have heart disease in spite of 35 years of high dose ascorbic acid. The test results surprised me at the time, but I didn't know what to think.

Even though I was taking 15 grams or more per day of ascorbic acid, usually in four doses, my test results came back showing high need for more vitamin C.
The same result for vitamin E, even though I've taken 300-400 IU per day for many years.

Is there any reason I may not be absorbing vitamin C and vitamin E?

Another piece of the quandary is that the only year my coronary calcium score has come down was the year I read Dr. Esselstyn and started a strict vegetarian diet. Is there something about diet that can prevent absorption of vitamin C and vitamin E ?

I've discussed my quandary numerous times over the years on this forum. To reiterate: At age 72, I'm asymptomatic for heart disease, but my coronary calcium score has been going up by 100 points per year for ten years. Last CAC scan result six months ago was 912.

One more factoid: after my CAC score came down by 100 points, I had to take an antibiotic for a urinary tract infection. The following CAC scan reverted to old increase by 100 points. This seems to indicate something in the gut biome was negatively affected by the antibiotic.

[ofonorow]

Sorry for the delay responding.

Some individuals have an extraordinary need for vitamin C. We have had forum members over the years that reported ordinary health if they maintained between 30,000 and 120,000 mg of vitamin C daily. (From memory, popnowlin takes 60,000 daily to avert symptoms of arthritis. I've tried to run experiments with popnowlin, but I fear he is tired of being a guinea pig. For instance, we learned from the Advanced Science behind the medical medium that ester-C is much more effective than ordinary ascorbic acid, at least for infection. In my case, I was able to use about 1/4 of the dosage of Ester-C to achieve a bowel tolerance dosage during a sickness. (By the way, I don't suffer sickness these days because of the Thomas E Levy lecture on hydrogen peroxide: https://www.brighteon.com/97941e8c-20a4-43b4-913b-606047c0750b) I asked popnowlin to test this by switching to Ester-C, and reducing his daily vitamin C. He promptly got sick and caught a cold....)

Your experience with low vitamin E and the betterment from a plant-based diet, provide clues which, with the help of the advanced MEDICAL MEDIUM knowledge, may help explain your case. One of the primary MM messages is that other than "methylated" vitamin C (which is present in celery juice) all other vitamin C must be absorbed by the liver before it becomes useful to the rest of the cells in the body, and, before C (or any nutrient) is absorbed by the liver - glucose (and by extension insullin) must be present.

This has made me wonder if the extraordinary large doses of vitamin C are required because these vitamin C dosages mimic glucoose and trigger the pancreas to release insulin? This could mean that much smaller vit. C doses are required, if the vitamin is taken with glucose. (And experiment I would like to try on popnowlin, and maybe you might be willing to give this a try and report back. Glucose (not sucrose). You can purchase glucose/dextrose from NOW FOODS.

Now to your individual points.

I found some old tests by Genova Diagnostics that might explain why I have heart disease in spite of 35 years of high dose ascorbic acid. The test results surprised me at the time, but I didn't know what to think.

Even though I was taking 15 grams or more per day of ascorbic acid, usually in four doses, my test results came back showing high need for more vitamin C.
The same result for vitamin E, even though I've taken 300-400 IU per day for many years.

Is there any reason I may not be absorbing vitamin C and vitamin E?

According to the Medical Medium writings, per my interpretation, there are two fundamental reasons why vitamin C absorption could be blocked.

#1. Fat in the blood stream. This explains your positive experience with a vegetarian diet. Fat essentially "clogs" the receptors that glucose (and vitamin C) require to enter cells. According to the MM writing there are bad fats and not so bad. Bad fats stay in the blood stream much longer, eg. pork, while plant based fats are cleared out of the blood stream in a few short hours. So, reduce fats in the diet (the recommendation is 15% of calories or less) and take your vitamin C (and other nutrients) with fruits, and as far away from your fat intake as possible. Glucose/Vitamin C require insulin, leading to reason number 2.

#2. Lack of insulin. Assuming your pancreas functions as it is supposed to, then adding glucose (not sucrose) to your supplements, may very well reduce the amounts that are required. I personally would be very interested in your experience taking your supplements with glucose.

Another piece of the quandary is that the only year my coronary calcium score has come down was the year I read Dr. Esselstyn and started a strict vegetarian diet. Is there something about diet that can prevent absorption of vitamin C and vitamin E ?

As mentioned, fat in the blood stream BLOCKS vitamin C (and other nutrient uptake) through the Insulin receptors in cells (something like Type 2 diabetes cells become clogged from trans fatty acids in the diet.). On the other h and, we think we know that Calcium scores are a function of vitamin K in the diet (and not C or E). It may be that vitamin K (like all other nutrients) need to be processed by the liver, which requires insulin.

I've discussed my quandary numerous times over the years on this forum. To reiterate: At age 72, I'm asymptomatic for heart disease, but my coronary calcium score has been going up by 100 points per year for ten years. Last CAC scan result six months ago was 912.

One more factoid: after my CAC score came down by 100 points, I had to take an antibiotic for a urinary tract infection. The following CAC scan reverted to old increase by 100 points. This seems to indicate something in the gut biome was negatively affected by the antibiotic.

Much of our vitamin K comes from gut flora.

I wish I knew, from experience, whether adding glucose to your supplements was really a miracle fix. The MM writing does not recommend this, instead, the writing strongly recommends fruits (and veges) which contain the correct amount of glucose already attached to the nutrients in the fruit.

[gmdodaro]

Thanks, Owen. A lot to ponder in your comments. Since I read Pauling in 1982, I've taken 15-30 grams of ascorbic acid per day, sometimes double that if I had a cold or flu. I've seldom hit bowel intolerance. My glucose was in the high 90s until the past three years of vegetarian diet when it has been low 90s. I seldom get even a cold since I started the C regimen, whereas previously I often had colds or flu often more than once per year. Despite those contrary tests, I must be getting, at least, adequate C.

I have the MTHFR mutation so I can absorb only methylcobalamin B12. There may be some similar problem with vitamin C. I generally take C with a little fruit juice, not too much because I've read that sugar competes with C for absorption.

For at least the past three years, I doubt that fat is blocking C absorption. My cholesterol on the vegan diet has averaged about 170, as low as 145 when I started. Recently I experimented, eating fish or chicken once per week, because I was concerned that I might not be getting enough fat to absorb minerals and vitamin K. I take KoncentratedK, which is about 50 mg when I get two capsules a day. I started eating a bit of cheese with each. The results were not encouraging. My cholesterol shot up to 224 from 180, LDL was not good at 116. On strict vegan LDL was low 60s. More worrisome: my PSA jumped from 4.6 to 5.8.

I'm also advised that hypothyroidism corelates with CAD. I've been taking natural desiccated thyroid for four months, having trouble getting T3 above 3.0, last tested 2.3.

I've been asymptomatic for heart disease in spite of the high CAD scores, last 912. I run and lift weights. I did have serious atrial fibrillation and tachycardia 2014-2017 until I started high dose iodine. 35-50 mg per day stopped the arrhythmias and also prostate blockages. I was in the ER several times, sometimes with both arrhythmia and blocked urethra. Iodine has been a miracle cure for both since March 2018.

[Xdxml]

[pamojja]

[gmdodaro]

Thanks for the ideas, but I think I am going to continue with my current dosage of ascorbic acid, 20-30 grams per day, and the other things I've been working on. I've been borderline hypothyroid for years, and now I'm supplementing with natural desiccated thyroid and various cofactors. Progesterone seems to be important. Zinc. Iodine, which cured my atrial fibrillation three years ago. Various other supplements. The best result to date was when I started a strict vegan diet in January 2018. My coronary calcium score dropped nearly 100 points in the next nine months. But, then I had to take an antibiotic, which seems to have been a problem for my gut microbiome. The next test, a year later, reverted by 100 points. However, the following year, my score only increased by 40 points, much better than previous years since 2010 during which the CAC score went up by 100 points per year.

[ofonorow]

I've been borderline hypothyroid for years, and now I'm supplementing with natural desiccated thyroid and various cofactors

You might find the book THYROID by Anthony William an interesting read. The basic message from the "Twilight Zone" (or wherever this information comes from) is that we mere humans haven't a clue what the Thyroid does for the body, its backup mechanisms and the unintended harm caused when we supplement with one or two (of the 4!) hormones.

[gmdodaro]

I'm not sure what to make of the medical medium premise, but you've mentioned him before, so there must be something to it. I'll buy the book. I have another appointment with my doctor this afternoon and some more tests to try to figure out my low thyroid issue. I don't feel like a hypothyroid case, but Patrick Theut, the originator of the high potency vitamin K says he had to get T3 in the upper end of the range to improve his coronary calcium score.

[gmdodaro]

There is one more thing about my thyroid case: For several years starting 2014 I had atrial fibrillation and tachycardia. It got so bad that 3-5 times per week the arrhythmias would go on for as much as 15-20 hour per episode. I read about iodine and a-fib and started taking 30-50 mg per day against two doctors advice. In about two weeks, my arrhythmias stopped completely. That was three years ago. I've had no more problems with the arrhythmias since March 2018.
The one odd effect of high iodine dosage has been high TSH. My T3 and T4 are still on the low borderline, but TSH shot up in the the 40s. It stayed there until recently when I started taking natural desiccated thyroid supplements. The last TSH score was 12, still high but not extreme.

[ofonorow]

I read about iodine and a-fib and started taking 30-50 mg per day against two doctors advice. In about two weeks, my arrhythmias stopped completely.

Fascinating.

So the book is titled THYROID HEALING by Anthony William. I recommend skipping both the forward and preface and start reading Chapter 1. You'll get the idea in 4 pages. I myself have started to reread it because it has been awhile. From memory, I do think the value of Iodine is mentioned. We'll both know soon.

[gmdodaro]

I scanned with a search on iodine, and he seems to be saying that iodine is an antiviral that impedes Epstine Barr. Iodine phobia is pervasive in conventional medicine. This article puts it in perspective: https://www.optimox.com/iodine-study-4

[gmdodaro]

Anthony William is intent on the Epstine Barr virus, which seems like a good target for chlorine dioxide solution, per Andreas Kalcker and Jim Humble. A physical therapist recommended this a couple of years ago, unfortunately after I had a urinary tract infection and took an antibiotic. I read up on chlorine dioxide. Now I make it myself from sodium chlorite and 4% HCL or 50% citric acid. When my wife got a very painful case of shingles, CDS cured it in less than two weeks.
New study shows it's effective against COVID-19: https://andreaskalcker.com/en/coronavir ... cloro.html

It also seems obvious that vitamin C will help the body fight any virus, including Epstine Barr.

I jumped to the dietary recommendations in Thyroid Healing, and they are very much in line with the principles my wife and I already follow. I got results with a vegan diet. After reading Esselstyn and nine months vegan, my CAC score dropped nearly 100 points. It will be a few more months before another CT scan to update the progress after the antibiotic and regression.

[ofonorow]

Anthony William is intent on the Epstien Barr virus, which seems like a good target for chlorine dioxide solution, per Andreas Kalcker and Jim Humble. A physical therapist recommended this a couple of years ago, unfortunately after I had a urinary tract infection and took an antibiotic. I read up on chlorine dioxide. Now I make it myself from sodium chlorite and 4% HCL or 50% citric acid. When my wife got a very painful case of shingles, CDS cured it in less than two weeks.

Excellent idea - and MAYBE. In my case, last year, after a diabetic wound caused the amputation of a big toe, requiring 4 subsequent surgeries, I was diagnosed with osteomyelitis (i.e. a deep bone infection). That is where I learned about CDS from members of this forum (Thank you Saw!). I had tried hyperbaric oxygen, electrical (e.g. TENS) and magnets, liposomal vitamin C, topical CDS with and without DMSO, DMSO orally, CDS orally, soaking my feet in magnesium, bleach, etc. etc. NOTHING WORKED.

Then I read Kalkers book FORBIDDEN HEALTH . Andreas knocks vitamin C, in his writings, but at the end of the book he cites a Stanford professors protocol that was clinically investigated for viral infection. The protocol is IV/MMS, immediately followed by a 15 grams IV/C. (Kalker notes that nobody else seemed to notice that the acid in the vitamin C "activated" the MMS creating CDS in the blood stream.)

My alt doc who specializes in IV MMS thought adding vitamin C was a bad idea and would "inactivate" the benefits of the oxidant MMS. (Which is what Kalker seems to think). But my doc agreed, probably because he knew that professor, although he thought he was wrong, but there was a scientific justification.

I followed that Stanford professorr's protocol, the foot, and only the foot, turned bright red, and then promptly healed in 24 hours! One treatment and it was over. Miraculous.

I could go on and on. The effect seemed like a description of Type I and Type 2 machrophages. Type I WBC cells arrive at the site of the infection first, creating the cytokine storm and "burning the place down." Type 2 cells arrive later, quieting the storm and starting the process of healing. MMS burns the infection down, vitamin C mops up and starts the healing.

Note, this was an acute, deep bone infection. Oral MMS and Oral CDS combined with topical (and oral) DMSO did not resolve the infection. This intravenous protocol did!

The problem with using MMS/CDS for a chronic, or inactive virus, is that it may not be able to target the area.

It also seems obvious that vitamin C will help the body fight any virus, including Epstien Barr.

True, and lysine it turns out is perhaps even more anti-viral. (This according to the university of Chicago, as well as the Medical Medium). And reducing the intake of viral stimulating arginine. Again, there is a difference between active, acute viral infections - which can be targeted, and deep inactive viruses which are dormant.

I jumped to the dietary recommendations in Thyroid Healing, and they are very much in line with the principles my wife and I already follow. I got results with a vegan diet. After reading Esselstyn and nine months vegan, my CAC score dropped nearly 100 points. It will be a few more months before another CT scan to update the progress after the antibiotic and regression.

I mentioned the Medical Medium because you said you were going to a doctor to discuss your Thyroid. The purpose of the Medical Medium book on thyroid is to point out that this is a poor course of action, as current scientific "theories" are quaint and not accurate. The book attempts to make the reader an expert in Thyroid. Hopefully more medical doctors are also readers. I myself weaned myself off of levothyroxine based on the knowledge in that book.

[gmdodaro]

Just got notice of this study of chlorine dioxide against COVID-19: https://andreaskalcker.com/en/coronavir ... cloro.html

Your comment: "I followed that Stanford professor's protocol, the foot, and only the foot, turned bright red, and then promptly healed in 24 hours! One treatment and it was over. Miraculous."
HCL and citric acid activate sodium chlorite, and stomach acid creates another reaction. Why not vitamin C intravenously? Your success is the proof.

I have been taking CDS orally at night every couple of hours in an effort to fix recent PSA jump to 5.8. I take ascorbic acid and other supplements in daylight hours. From your comment about arginine, I will stop l-arginine immediately.

I've heard Kalcker knock Linus Pauling and vitamin C. It's jarring, and after more than thirty years of benefits from high dose ascorbic acid, I don't take him seriously on this subject.

The doctor who prescribed natural desiccated thyroid for me is not doctrinaire about my bloodwork. I'm tracking T3, T4, TSH, Reverse T3. Also keeping tabs with lipid panel, and metabolic panel. I don't fit the hypothyroid types of either Medical Medium or conventional medicine. Another helpful book is Broda O. Barnes, Hyporthyroid, the Unsuspected Illness. His ideas are based on decades of clinical experience, and he discounts testing as well. Like Med Medium his book discusses all the permutations of hypothyroid illness. I don't fit any of them. At age 72 I still run and lift weights six days per week. I feel good. No brain fog! I"m still working full time as a technical writer. But the CAC score has been going up for ten years. Even my conventional cardiologist confirms the correlation between hypothyroid and CAD. I've been borderline for years. But, in my case, it's not the cholesterol bump that's doing it. And my triglycerides/ HDL ratio has been 1:1 for the past few years. My father and other relatives had CAD, so I'm disposed for it. My father had quadruple bypass at my age.

We're going to try the celery juice. That's a lot of celery! My wife is fighting SEBO.

Oh, one more thing: do you use MMS per Jim Humble, sodium chlorite activated by citric acid, or Kalcker's CDS, gas in water?

[ofonorow]

I've heard Kalcker knock Linus Pauling and vitamin C. It's jarring, and after more than thirty years of benefits from high dose ascorbic acid, I don't take him seriously on this subject.

Kalcker has a wonderful open mind, and he feels that the "antioxidant theory" is flawed. I wish he would become educated on vitamin C (which can be a life's work) because of its great benefit to heart patients. I honestly hope someday to debate him on the vitamin C issue. And yes, my experience was fantastic - and the protocol and explanation was in his own book!

The doctor who prescribed natural desiccated thyroid for me is not doctrinaire about my bloodwork. I'm tracking T3, T4, TSH, Reverse T3. Also keeping tabs with lipid panel, and metabolic panel.

What about the R3 and R4 hormones? My new requirement for a Thyroid doctor is: Have they read the Medical Medium book? I don't know where this information comes from , but I have come to know that it does not come from today's modern science as we know it of Earth. (The fact that there is at least one error - maybe - tells me the source isn't divine, whatever that means. I think its much more likely that the source is an advanced science. )

We're going to try the celery juice. That's a lot of celery! My wife is fighting SEBO.

Every juicing protocol in the last book starts with Celery Juice. It worked a MIRACLE for me (restored my adrenal function)

Oh, one more thing: do you use MMS per Jim Humble, sodium chlorite activated by citric acid, or Kalcker's CDS, gas in water?

I have purchased CDS and MMS and the activator (with HCL) from a company eDOC pointed me to. I mostly used CDS topically and orally after watching all of Kalker's videos. Then, when that didn't cure the foot, I tried MMS and the activator.

The miracle occurred using MMS intravenously, and since I was new, a low dose according to the doc, immediately followed by a 15 gram IV/C.