Moderator: ofonorow
https://isom.ca/article/
Summary
Comparisons of the liposome-encapsulated and non-encapsulated (powder) ascorbate supplementations demonstrated that liposomal ascorbate intake results in longer retention of ascorbate in blood. Plasma concentrations of ascorbate remained at the level of 100% increase during 3 hours for non-encapsulated ascorbate and longer than 4.5 hours for liposomal ascorbate. The maximum percentage of ascorbate increase was the same for both formulations and reached 150%-170%.
The concentrations of ascorbate in white blood cells were changed after intake of ascorbate in the form of non-encapsulated and encapsulated liposomal ascorbate supplementations. The average maximum increase in the concentrations of ascorbate in cells was the same for both formulations (in range 40%÷50%). The data show that liposomal ascorbate resulted in faster intake by cells. The comparison of the areas under the curve for concentrations that were higher than initial levels showed that AUC was on 50% larger for liposomal formulation in comparison with non-encapsulated ascorbate.
The data support our hypothesis that hydrocortisone can have effect on the uptake of ascorbate by cells, when it is given as an adjuvant to ascorbate supplementation. The injection of hydrocortisone before intake of supplements resulted in more favorable percentage of intracellular ascorbate intake.
The weakness of the study is the low number of the participants and the measurements of ascorbate concentrations in plasma and cells by a method based on the condensation reaction of dehydroascorbic with formation of colored product that was detected by fluorescence.
pamojja wrote:To summarize, the same plasma levels with both
pamojja wrote:Dr. Levy did a study:https://isom.ca/article/
Summary
Comparisons of the liposome-encapsulated and non-encapsulated (powder) ascorbate supplementations demonstrated that liposomal ascorbate intake results in longer retention of ascorbate in blood. Plasma concentrations of ascorbate remained at the level of 100% increase during 3 hours for non-encapsulated ascorbate and longer than 4.5 hours for liposomal ascorbate. The maximum percentage of ascorbate increase was the same for both formulations and reached 150%-170%.
The concentrations of ascorbate in white blood cells were changed after intake of ascorbate in the form of non-encapsulated and encapsulated liposomal ascorbate supplementations. The average maximum increase in the concentrations of ascorbate in cells was the same for both formulations (in range 40%÷50%). The data show that liposomal ascorbate resulted in faster intake by cells. The comparison of the areas under the curve for concentrations that were higher than initial levels showed that AUC was on 50% larger for liposomal formulation in comparison with non-encapsulated ascorbate.
The data support our hypothesis that hydrocortisone can have effect on the uptake of ascorbate by cells, when it is given as an adjuvant to ascorbate supplementation. The injection of hydrocortisone before intake of supplements resulted in more favorable percentage of intracellular ascorbate intake.
The weakness of the study is the low number of the participants and the measurements of ascorbate concentrations in plasma and cells by a method based on the condensation reaction of dehydroascorbic with formation of colored product that was detected by fluorescence.
To summarize, the same plasma levels with both, but a insignificant slightly longer retention time for liposomal at equal 5 gram doses. Now the results at least I have been waiting for a long time: lymphocytes cell concentration actually the same again, but AUC concentration in cells 50% larger with liposomal only.
I certainly will stick to the 25 g/d of ordinary ascorbic acid I took for 12 years, and which already showed so many health-benefits to me. Instead of taking about 16 g/d of expensive liposomal, which would equate my dose in respect to intra-cellular absorption according to this new study.
Xdxml wrote:If one were to take both, should they be taken together or spaced out. Is it possible to overdose on liposomal or same rules as the normal pathways.
pamojja wrote:Xdxml wrote:If one were to take both, should they be taken together or spaced out. Is it possible to overdose on liposomal or same rules as the normal pathways.
PPC in liposomal too has a bowel tolerance at high enough doses. Do you really want to take 10-20 grams of PPC a day? In case for that reason better take it with meals. While ascorbic acid is better taken on a empty stomach.
pamojja wrote:Could you link to the product? Because it very unlikely is ascobic acid, but sodium bicarbonate, somewhere more hidden indicated. All liposomal I've seen on the marked are, but are sometimes wrongly labeld. Also compercial Pascorbin 'Ascorbic Acid' 7.5 ampoules for IVs, if one reads the text insert, is of course actually sodium ascorbate.
By the way, 1 g phosphatidylcholine contains about 130 mg choline.
What is the difference between the softgels and liquid vitamin C?
The liquid liposomal Vitamin C works faster than the softgels because the softgels have to open which delays onset. The liquid also has more phospholipids (PC Complex), 500 mg versus the 350 mg of the softgels. The PC complex has its own very therapeutic and nutritional effect could potentially help in lowering cholesterol, aiding in cardiovascular health, enhancing focus and alertness and balancing the autonomic nervous system. Liquid vitamin C is flavored and has an orange-citrus taste that some people find quite pleasant, but others do not like it or want to avoid because of sensitivity to stevia and fructose. Note, the liquid also has to be refrigerated after opening.
If that is the case can one assume that one can take 2.5 lyposomol of this form rather than take 5g of AA non lyposomol
pamojja wrote:Couldn't find any more. Could be just mis-naming, or they really used ascorbic acid. Interesting they say for best absorption in the small intestine don't open the capsule for taking its content in juice. While they actually also have a more expensive liquid version (which curiously specifies containing both: ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate). But with the liquid more expensive product they don't mention inferior absorption again?!? Just:What is the difference between the softgels and liquid vitamin C?
The liquid liposomal Vitamin C works faster than the softgels because the softgels have to open which delays onset. The liquid also has more phospholipids (PC Complex), 500 mg versus the 350 mg of the softgels. The PC complex has its own very therapeutic and nutritional effect could potentially help in lowering cholesterol, aiding in cardiovascular health, enhancing focus and alertness and balancing the autonomic nervous system. Liquid vitamin C is flavored and has an orange-citrus taste that some people find quite pleasant, but others do not like it or want to avoid because of sensitivity to stevia and fructose. Note, the liquid also has to be refrigerated after opening.
The higher PC content explains the higher price though.If that is the case can one assume that one can take 2.5 lyposomol of this form rather than take 5g of AA non lyposomol
I actually think it possible this company doesn't provides real liposomal, just an emulsion which aids in absorption a bid too. Reason being they're using much less PC, especially in the cheaper capsules, than any other liposomal ascorbate seen. Also the curious disadvise not to open capsules: That's really the first I would do, because if it's real liposomal all ascorbic acid is encapsulated, and no acidity could be tasted at all.
I could be wrong though. The only thing sure I can say that we don't have a study comparing ascorbic acid with liposomal ascorbic acid, therefore anything is just speculation at this point.
Not all is lost. Experimenting with different products usually does expose advantage or drawbacks.
For example in my case during rhinitis season with a sneezing-fit a teaspoon of ascorbic acid within 5-10 minutes quits it. Bud sodium ascorbate doesn't. Therefore if you do have any symptoms immatiately alleviated with ascorbic acid, try if this liposmal works just as well. And then decrease doses to learn the difference.
I just got the bottle. I will start experimenting with the dosage. Can I assume if I take the same gram for gram as normal VC I should have some kind of bowel issues bec if it’s liposomal I should technically need less?
I also cut it open. The inside is white and has a smoothie texture. It tastes very sour almost has a rancid metal taste. So it might not be real liposomal?
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ofonorow wrote:I just got the bottle. I will start experimenting with the dosage. Can I assume if I take the same gram for gram as normal VC I should have some kind of bowel issues bec if it’s liposomal I should technically need less?
I also cut it open. The inside is white and has a smoothie texture. It tastes very sour almost has a rancid metal taste. So it might not be real liposomal?
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Our now over 20 year experience with Linus Pauling's protocol for reversing heart disease is mainly with ascorbic acid powder.
Here is what I think we know.
Like glutathione, there may be different effects inside cells and outside cells in the blood stream. Based on the Pauling/Rath theory, I assume that Lp(a) binding inhibitors (vitamin C, llysine) work OUTSIDE of cells to keep Lp(a) lysine binding sites from adhering to lysine residues on damaged arterial tissue.
High dose powder would work outside of cells.
We think we know that liposomal vitamin C has a profound (maybe 10 times IV) affect reversing infection, which is consistent with the vitamin C action with liposomal being INSIDE cells (perhaps leading to more GSH).
This reasoning (and lack of experience with liposomal alone) is why I hesitate recommending replacing powder with liposomal for CVD.
In cases where people supplement their ascorbic powder with additional liposomal, we have gotten very positive reports.
( as of today I’m still not sure how much VC I still need,
Xdxml wrote:ofonorow wrote: , I got my results yesterday and they are still high at 319 even after 18g of VC daily for 5 months and off any low carb diet ) I have also removed all my mercury fillings in November
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