Calcium Scores Not improving on the Paulling Therapy and Lipo C

[ofonorow]

Hi Owen,

I am hoping to join the Vitamin C forum to see if I can get any advice on what I should be expecting with the Vitamin C therapy and what other avenues I should be looking at to treat my CAD. I am a 55 year old female with a better than average diet and average activity levels.

I was diagnosed at the end of 2021 with CAD. I started taking 4 gm per day of liposomal Vitamin C in May 2022. In November 2022, I added 6 scoops of the Heart Tech product (and continued taking 3gm of the liposomal Vitamin C, so I am currently taking 9gm of Vitamin C per day). I was really hoping that the Vitamin C would show improvement in my calcium score, but it is just getting worse. My original test in Nov 2021 was the CT scan with the radioactive contrast and my score was 134. Last November I had the CT Coronary Calcium Score test without contrast and the value was 210. I had the test (without contrast) repeated in December 2023 and the values had jumped up to 300.

I read in your book that insulin levels can impact the effectiveness of treatment. I was pre-diabetic, but I managed to get that under control and my A1C was in the normal range all of last year. Still, it appears as if the CAD is worsening...

I used to work for DSM Nutritional Products (I am currently working for a former division of DSM that was spun off last year). I was really hoping that this Vitamin C therapy would work and I could give my testimony to the president of DNP - he is in a unique position to help advocate for Vitamin C if it turns out that this will really help. But I didn't want to approach him until I had positive results, and so far I don't.

I know there is no set time limit, but I was hoping that after 1+ years of therapy I would show signs of stabilization, if not reversal. I feel like I am at a crossroads - do I continue down the current road, try to increase my Vitamin C intake even further, or go back to traditional methods of treatment (I am currently not taking the statin originally prescribed by my cardiologist). I am spending a small fortune on supplements, and that is worth it to me if I feel that it gives me a chance to fully regain my health. I just don't know at what point I decide to further my investment or decide it just isn't working.

Any advice for me?

P M

We have known since the beginning that while Vitamin C and Lysine (and proline) improves blood flow and reverses Lp(a)-based atherosclerosis, the basic therapy does not affect calcium, which we infer accumulates on the "outside" of the artery.

This forum post should include the story of the late former CEO of Tower Laboratories. He had been taking Heart Tech for years, and a fast-CT scan showed high calcium levels. Surprised, he checked himself into a hospital for an angiogram - which was completely normal. No blockages..

The reasons for adding Vitamin K to the Pauling Therapy
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11891

You didn't mention whether you are taking prescription medications, but there are over 200 which result in calcium build-up.

In addition to calcium, what is your total cholesterol? Lp(a) cholesterol, blood pressure, and do you have heart pain (angina)? What else makes you think your Cardiovascular disease has gotten worse, other than the calcium score?

[mcclinp]

My total cholesterol jumped from 196 last July to 227 in December (likely due to the fact that I have been unable to exercise much due to a fall I had last Sept and for which I am still regularly seeing a physical therapist). Other tests from December: LDL was 148, trigs were 100 and HDL was 61. I have not had my LP(a) levels checked recently as my insurance company does not pay for that test and the results seemed okay to me when they were first checked. It was 18.8 in Aug 2022 and 28.1 in Nov 2022. Blood pressure is well managed, but I am taking 2 blood pressure medications: Valsartan 160mg in the morning and 5mg amlodipine besylate in the evening.

I believe that I was having coronary artery spasms back in 2021, which is what led me to aggressively visit all the specialists to find out what was wrong. The pulmonologist diagnosed me with mild sleep apnea, the endocrinologist diagnosed me with hashimoto's without hypothyroidism (basically, my body is attacking my thyroid but my thyroid is still functioning okay). The cardiologist did a diagnostic cath. They confirmed a 50-70% blockage but determined there was no reduction in blood flow. My prior symptoms disappeared when we cut the Valsartan and added the amlodipine. I was very briefly taking a statin at the end of 2021 and at the beginning of 2022, but I discontinued that when I started the Vitamin C therapy. I am taking no other prescription medications. I do take a liquid form of Vitamin D & K2, but am not really sure about the best dosages for either. I also take a probiotic which contains the B vitamins. My B6 tested high at 101.8 last July, but I have not showed any signs of B6 toxicity so I have not been overly concerned with that. I also take the Exipure supplement, which I believe helped to bring my A1C under control. The other supplements I take regularly are COQ10, Fish Oil, and Zinc. I don't take magnesium because I get a lot of that naturally in my diet.

With regards to why I am concerned? I haven't been feeling right the past week. I guess you could describe it as angina - a feeling of heaviness in my chest and some slight pain. The physical therapist listened to my heart during my PT visits and detected an arrhythmia when I was doing mild exercise (5 minutes on a stationary bike); no arrhythmia when I was at rest. I do plan to follow up with my doctor.

I had thought that following the Linus Pauling protocol would help reverse the buildup in my arteries. Is that incorrect? Is there any scientific way to know whether the therapy is helping my heart?

[ofonorow]

Thanks for responding. There is quite a bit to comment on in your response. See below.

My total cholesterol jumped from 196 last July to 227 in December

This is a lot to digest, but as Pauling reported in HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER, Ginter found through extensive research that total cholesterol normalizes to 180 mg/dl on optimal vitamin C intake. So your increase points to your need for additional vitamin C. See:
https://vitamincfoundation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=152&p=30272&hilit=ginter#p594

I have not had my LP(a) levels checked recently as my insurance company does not pay for that test and the results seemed okay to me when they were first checked. It was 18.8 in Aug 2022 and 28.1 in Nov 2022.

Ironic since measured lp(a) is the most important factor in determining your heart's heath. Thirty years ago, Pauling felt that anything under 20 mg/dl was acceptable, so you went from barely acceptable to elevated Lp(a). Again, another indicator that you require more vitamin C and should also add/increase lysine (and proline.)

Blood pressure is well managed, but I am taking 2 blood pressure medications: Valsartan 160mg in the morning and 5mg amlodipine besylate in the evening.

The "good" blood pressure medications mimic the effect that magnesium has, i.e. are "calcium channel blockers."

The most popular blood pressure meds, e.g, captopril , are made from snake venom (as certain venom's lower blood pressure)

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/11/venomics-deadly-toxins-life-saving-drugs-mande-holford/

Searching whether either of these drugs are made from Snake Venom one finds that the FDA has a recall on Valsartan.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=are+blood+pressure+drugs++Valsartan+amlodipine+besylate+made+from+snake+venom&t=lm&atb=v299-1&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DgehyRxRBtqo

You can control your blood pressure safely and naturally with optimal vitamin C and adding supplemental magnesium: See: MAGNESIUM: REVERSING DISEASE https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Reversing-MD-Jd-Levy/dp/0998312401/ref=sr_1_2?crid=OVK7B5WHVW2N&keywords=levy+magnesium&qid=1706645923&sprefix=levy+magne%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-2

I believe that I was having coronary artery spasms back in 2021, which is what led me to aggressively visit all the specialists to find out what was wrong. The pulmonologist diagnosed me with mild sleep apnea, the endocrinologist diagnosed me with hashimoto's without hypothyroidism (basically, my body is attacking my thyroid but my thyroid is still functioning okay). The cardiologist did a diagnostic cath. They confirmed a 50-70% blockage but determined there was no reduction in blood flow. My prior symptoms disappeared when we cut the Valsartan and added the amlodipine. I was very briefly taking a statin at the end of 2021 and at the beginning of 2022, but I discontinued that when I started the Vitamin C therapy. I am taking no other prescription medications. I do take a liquid form of Vitamin D & K2, but am not really sure about the best dosages for either. I also take a probiotic which contains the B vitamins. My B6 tested high at 101.8 last July, but I have not showed any signs of B6 toxicity so I have not been overly concerned with that. I also take the Exipure supplement, which I believe helped to bring my A1C under control. The other supplements I take regularly are COQ10, Fish Oil, and Zinc. I don't take magnesium because I get a lot of that naturally in my diet.

With regards to why I am concerned? I haven't been feeling right the past week. I guess you could describe it as angina - a feeling of heaviness in my chest and some slight pain. The physical therapist listened to my heart during my PT visits and detected an arrhythmia when I was doing mild exercise (5 minutes on a stationary bike); no arrhythmia when I was at rest. I do plan to follow up with my doctor.

I had thought that following the Linus Pauling protocol would help reverse the buildup in my arteries. Is that incorrect? Is there any scientific way to know whether the therapy is helping my heart?

Vitamin C is conspicuous by its absence. Obviously Pauling uncovered that vitamin C is the key factor in heart health.

Yes, Vitamin C and Lysine are Lp(a) binding inhibitors, and for the best introduction to what that means, you might visit PaulingTherapy.com. For example, Pauling/Rath even have a patent for organ transplants, because dipping and organ in a vitamin C/lysine solution, all the plaque melts away.


Thinking of an artery as a pipe, the inside will be clear and blood will flow, but if there is calcium build-up on the outside of the "pipe", it becomes and issue when the artery has to expand, say to allow a clot through. The way to get rid of the calcium, a longer process, is vitamin K. One Life Extension Super-K tablet per day worked for my wife and I - zero calcium scores.

And it is important to avoid the drugs that cause calcium to build up on arteries. MedLine reveals something like 200 plus drugs that "mimic" (block) vitamin K, ie, use vitamin K receptors but are not vitamin K, and thus create calcium build-ups, e.g. warfarin.

The best way to measure whether you are responding to Pauling's therapy are your measured Lp(a) levels. Not calculated. For people who visit this forum (and our former resident cardiologist) Lp(a) approaches zero (less than 3 mg/dl)

IMO. A therapeutic dosage of the Pauling-therapy (Vitamin C and Lysine), with vitamin E, magnesium and CoQ10 should do the trick for you.

[Joanna45]

On the subject of Vitamin C and Kidney stones I would like to make a comment about Kidney function. I have been on high doses of vitamin c/lysine and proline since 2014 . and when I first started my egfr function test was always 60 or lower ..which was worrisome.. each year the number has gone up and now its 87..and by the way my lpa is 3.
I also believe that a plant based diet or as close as you can get to one is the best thing to do.
I do follow Anthony Williams protocol on eating clean foods and fresh food with no additives of any kind in them..I do slip up occasionally but then I will do a three day cleanse..
and also to stay away from dairy and gluten products as much as possible ..we have a problem with the processed food and fast foot in this country when young adults are getting PAD as early as there 20's and 30's.

Joanna

[mcclinp]

Owen,

Thanks for your response. I think my problem is clearly not enough K2, but the question is what to do about it... The amounts in the Life Extension supplement you recommended is quite a bit higher than what I am getting in the Thorne D/K2 drops. However, the other piece of the puzzle is Vitamin E. I had labs done last December and my Alpha Tocopherol was very high at 37.9 (normal range 7 - 25.1mg) and my Gamma Tocopherol was slightly low at 0.3 (normal range 0.5 - 5.5mg). I have been taking 4 scoops of the Heart Tech powder daily, which provides over 1200 IU of Alpha Tocopherol (if I did the math correctly). I also eat a very good diet, which naturally contains Vitamin E. So, I believe the E is killing the K. Is the proper response to just add more K and keep the intake of E the way it is? Or should I be lowering my intake of Heart Tech to 3 scoops? And I assume I should take the K separately from the Heart Tech?

Peggy

[ofonorow]

Bravo Joanna

Peggy,

Per labs taken, remember these blood tests normally measure vitamins (e.g. vitamin E) in the blood, and not inside cells which is important. Yes, blood levels are an indicator of intracellular status.

I've never heard of "vitamin E killing vitamin K" Where did that come from? Vitamin E is an antioxidant that helps recycle vitamin C from the semi-oxidized back to its reduced (antioxidant) forum. Low serum vitamin E is the most important risk factor for predicting a heart attack, a better predictor than high blood pressure or high cholesterol.

Inverse correlation between plasma vitamin E and mortality from ischemic heart disease in cross-cultural epidemiology.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1985406/

Anthony Williams doesn't recommend vitamin K, as his recommendations have to apply to the majority of billion on this planet, because vitamin K is abundant in our foods. However, this does not account for the vitamin K depletion of the many pharmaceuticals (over 200 drugs apparently) that block vitamin K. To overcome the calcium-creating effect of these drugs, our experience tells us you need a lot of vitamin K, and the LEF.ORF Super K did the job for my wife and me. If you aren't on any pharmaceutical drugs, you probably wouldn't require additional vitamin K, and your arteries wouldn't have calcium.

As far as the Heart Tech dosage, I will repeat that my guide is usually the total cholesterol level. When cholesterol is 180 mg/dl, it indicates that inflammation in the body is very low, and thus the amount of vitamin C being consumed is optimal or at least adequate. Looking back, you have reported elevated calcium (BTW we have had reports of 8000 on the Fast Calcium scans) but I didn't see your total cholesterol. I would use that number as the basic guide of how much vitamin C (and thus Heart Tech) to be taking.