Do Cholesterol Drugs Do Any Good?

[kohlrabicroce]

Since zetia was mentioned, I'd like to ask something:

My bf is on zetia (10 mg) since I asked the doctor to get him off of
statins, but that one seems to have some nasty side effects too.

I'm having difficulty getting him to try anything over 3 grams
of vitamin C, so while I work on that issue, what other
cholesterol drug could I ask for?

He had a stoke at the beginning of June, was in the hospital
3 weeks, and is also taking:

Procardia time release 120 mg per day
warfarin 9 mg
lisinopril 40 mg per day
flomax .4 mg per day

As soon as he got out of the hospital near the end of june
he started taking a lot of coq10, but he has still lost a lot
of muscle. He got off the statin about 3 weeks later, and
has been on zetia ever since.

Could any of these other drugs be causing the muscle loss?

He also has the "dry hacking cough" thing from the lisinopril.

Thanks!

PS his cholesterol was high when he entered the hospital,
but now it is normal. I got him to actually go low carb,
and we now use only olive oil for cooking. But they did
a brainwashing job on him in the hospital about the wonderful
drugs, so that is why I want to ask if there is a better
drug I can ask for while I work on the vitamin c thing.

[Johnwen]

Kohlrabi:
Little short on time right now.
To give you a good answer I'll need a couple of more items because some of his meds are little bit higher then what would be considered "Normal range"

Weight
Age
Body build: ie. fat, skinny, strong,buff,flabby etc.
Type of stroke. usually on discharge papers.
I might have to get my soap box out for this one.

[kohlrabicroce]

Hi Johnwen,

yes, please do get on your soap box, I want to hear it.

he's 61, 5 foot 9 inches tall, fairly muscular, at least before
he lost 30 pounds.

He had a mild ischemic stroke, a right frontal infarct.
It took him the whole 3 weeks in the hospital to be able
to walk again. Now he is walking over a mile a day,
so he's done really great with the physical therapy.

He hasn't had much appetite this whole summer,
so it's possible the drugs just affected his appetite,
and he lost the weight because of that. Now he weighs
148 pounds. He used to weigh about 180 pounds.
He was not out of shape before - he walked every
day, but now he has to be a lot more focused on the
exercise and is doing great with that.

His mental acuity is still not what it used to be,
but it's better. I have no way to know how much
is because of the drugs, and how much because
of the stroke.

I understand that the procardia dose is probably the maximum
they would give to anybody, and the lisinopril is pretty high
too.

He's got a problem with mucous buildup too, and just today
I figured out it's probably the lisinopril. He's taking turmeric
to help with that.

Let me also tell what other supplements he's taking specifically
for his cardiovascular health:

vitamin e mixed tocopherols 400 IU
tocotrienols 100 mg
pantethine - 1200 mg per day
artichoke extract - 900 mg
coq10 100 mg
ubiquinol 50 mg
grapeseed 380 mg

and just recently, 600 mg a day of benfotiamine.


I can't get him to take more than 3 grams of C yet, so
I'm doing what I can with supplements he's more open
minded about.

Thanks for any advice you can give!

[kohlrabicroce]

Oh, Also, he's taking a low dose of niacin -
250 mg per day.

And I got him to take some homocysteine
lowering B vitamins like TMG, b12, folic acid,
and etc.

And I recently got him to take lysine along with
the 3 grams of vitamin C.

[Johnwen]

[kohlrabicroce]

So you're saying you think the drugs are causing the muscle loss,
even though I got him off the statin drug asap?

I don't know where to find the "real story" about these particular drugs.

Should I buy the physician's desk reference?

I just ordered:

Worst Pills, Best Pills one and two,

and:

Overdosed America


but I'm not sure that even those books
will do the job of giving me the real story.

It's going to have to be a 2-pronged approach, with
hard science against the drugs and for the vitamins.

I told him what I learned about the zetia, how it actually
causes more deaths because it thickens the blood vessel
wall, and it also blocks the nutrients he's taking, and
it didn't make a dent.

Oy, I'm in a hard place to be.

edit: I just got the PDR used for $12, god knows if
that will help any.

[eDOC]

Personally I don't agree with the consultation posted. Your bf is being over dosed with anti hyperyensives, which is not good in Ischemic Strokes. What are his prresures? He has PROSTATE issues too. The most probable cause of his muscle wasting is poor peripheral perfusion & Zetia. He should be put on Losartaan to get ridf the dry cougjh.Why warfarin..... Enteric Aspirin is fine. For his Cholestrol 3 gm is low. Dr Owen & all VC master members can give you a great plan

PS: Apologize for the poor typo from my cell.

[kohlrabicroce]

Hi eDoc, thank your thoughts.

Do you mean that anti-hypertensives are not good for Ischemic
Strokes, alltogether, or do you mean over-dosing with
anti-hypertensives is not good?

Also, why is that?

His blood pressure is now running a little low - this morning
it was 115 /76 or thereabouts.

It was around 160 / 100 before the lisinopril was increased
from 20 mg to 40 mg per day. He had one good week
of mental perkiness between the statin and the lisinopril
increase.. That's how it seems to me anyway.

yes, he was diagnosed with enlarged prostrate in the hospital,
that's why they put him on flomax.

he was put on warfarin because his blood is not thinning enough. It still
isn't. The new nurse is now working with him on that.

I can't get him to take more than 3 grams of C - at least not yet.
he's very resistant. I'm not giving up on it.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

I'll leave the discussion of the medications to the docs. (Thank you Edoc and johnwen!)

What I have observed for the past fifteen years is that heart patients with severe and debilitating disease, and on a myriad of heart medications, could start Pauling's therapy and improve rapidly - despite all the drugs.

So vitamin C is the key - as Pauling/Rath told us.

I believe the first thing you should do is order livonlabs.com Lypo-C, and start him on the 5 packet at a time regimen. If he can start with doing this twice per day, that would be terrific. (This eliminates the gas/diarrhea issue that holds most people back. If he simply has a fear of taking too much C (I once had this malady myself) then you should encourage him to read Pauling's book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER. (Or perhaps you could read it to him.... We should produce an audio book, shouldn't we?)

Reading the book would cover the basic regimen he should be on (Page 14).

Multi
Vit A (25,000 iu)
VIt E (400-800 iu)
B-complex
Vitamin C - 6000 to 18000 mg

Covers a lot of bases.

If he stays on the drugs, then clearing the toxicity becomes another issue, and that is why I believe people on Livon's LYPO GLUTATHIONE (Lypo-GSH) do so well (1 packet per day.)

[kohlrabicroce]

Thanks Dr. Ofonorow -

That kind of lypo-C is ridiculously expensive -
how about the regular lypo-C?

Also, where can I find some studies about the
effectiveness of lypo-c?

@jonwen: what is cytadel? That is a common
term (I get "citadel" all over the place when I
search for it.)

Thanks!

[Johnwen]

Can't believe I mispelled it
CYTADREN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aminoglutethimide

Ok found the problem. Typed it on my word processor and the auto spell check corrected it for me to the wrong word. My fault should have proof read it!

[ofonorow]

Thanks Dr. Ofonorow -

That kind of lypo-C is ridiculously expensive -
how about the regular lypo-C?

Also, where can I find some studies about the
effectiveness of lypo-c?

Really? Compared to what? 1 gram of Lypo is the equivalent of roughly 5 g of ordinary vitamin C. So a carton of Lypo contains 150 g equivalent for about $30.

An IV costs at least $60, not to mention doctors visits, needles, time, and most docs charge more than $100 per IV.

5 packets of Lypo-C (or 30/6) or $5 saves one more than $95 versus the same blood levels with a small 25-50 g IV.

We are talking someone who is in dire need of help, as I understand it, and who is unwilling to take ordinary vitamin C. (For me, taste alone is the reason to take Lypo-C, and this but may be important for said bf.)

I am willing to stake whatever reputation I have on Lypo-C.

I know very little about the DIY (homemade) Lypos, and go by reports at this forum that they are better than taking ordinary C, probably for the reasons that kiwi gel and/or aloe vera are good transport mechanisms through the digestive system for ordinary vitamin C. So they are probably good. Lypo-C is miraculous.

[kohlrabicroce]

Lypo-GSH costs $80 for 30 grams, and is not
covered by insurance. That is what I was talking
about.

I was asking if the regular lypo-c which
costs $30 for 30 grams would suffice.

[ofonorow]

Lypo-C is vitamin C - probably the most potent and easiest oral form to take.

Lypo-GSH is glutathione - maybe the only way to directly increase glutathione levels inside cells (from oral intake of GSH or even IV/GSH.)

I was recommending that you suggest Lypo-C as the form of vitamin C for your friend, because you said he would limit to 3 g. (If he took only 3 Lypo-C daily, he would be getting the equivalent of roughly 15,000 mg of ordinary vitamin C.)

After he is well, or at least seems better, he could switch over to the homemade liposomal C - as this is probably still more potent that ordinary vitamin C, if money is the issue.

The recommendation for Lypo-GSH has to do with the (toxic) drugs he is taking.

It is my understanding (thanks mainly to Chris Shade, PhD, See: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/ppt/Shade_HA_Oct2009.ppt ) that a primary role of glutathione (GSH) is detoxification. It is usually formed within cells, and there is one pathway - out of cells, after it grabs a toxin.

One of the ways that Tylenol damages the liver is that it depletes GSH in liver cells, so increasing intracellular GSH can prevent this damage. Ditto for other toxins which damage the liver, I'd be willing to wager.

There are theoretical ways to increase GSH in cells, and according to a lecture I heard from Emeritus Professor of Chemistry, Boyd Haley, ONLY vitamin C has been shown (proven) to increase GSH within cells.

Taking ordinary GSH, or IV/GSH, generally does not enter cells - no pathway through the membrane to the inside of cells. (but GSH can apparently clear toxins/debris from the blood stream). The development of "liposomal" GSH is exciting. According to Dr. Shade, liposomal GSH may actually deposit GSH inside cells, as the liposomes meld with the membrane.

I have seen with my own eyes remarkable results with Lypo-GSH, truly remarkable, and I have heard about equally remarkable results of IV/C combined with IV/GSH.

Bottom line, for someone as ill as your friend and taking as many drugs, Lypo-GSH seem like pretty cheap "health insurance." But Lypo-C on its own may be enough.