My Mom's been brainwashed

Any adverse effects of replacement vitamin C will be discuseed here. Topics include kidney stones, gall stones, oxidation, etc.
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My Mom's been brainwashed

Post Number:#1  Post by Guest » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:02 pm

My mom who depends on statins absolutly refuses to listen to me. We had an argument. Im finished trying to persuade her on all the research on the Pauling alternative combo. Its pointless. There is an old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink", lot of wisdom in that im finding out. She relies on statins and then turns right around and complains about her heart being weak, extreme fatigue etc, etc, etc. Aspirin is another one. What the hell do I know. S**t thats what.

"Your not a doctor you dont know what your talking about", Fine listen to the lies. Just kills me to watch these s**t heads with their rhetoric that lead people to an early death. What the hell do I know. Im just a dumb ass in a pair of levis and a plaid shirt.
And whats worse is too have my "knowlegeble" sister back up the pharm industry and their B.S. to my mom in front of me saying everything that I say is false information no matter what I say.

I give up. I was laughed at when I suggested alternatives to my uncle with cancer. "ha, ha, oh yeah when I get cancer Ill just run down to the vitamin store". Idiots. He died by the hands of oncologist in 3 months." Thanks, said the oncologist that'll be $200,000, there was nothing we could do". Yeah you f**ks there is also something called karma when you profit from a life. There comes a time when you have to leave that fancy yacht and all your toys behind and find out

Im to the point of just not even attempting to persuade anyone ever again. Put your faith in the guy in white lab coat, the one with all the brains. Their track record speaks for itself.

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Brainwashing

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:34 pm

Many of us know the feeling.

It is painful to see a continual stream of lies in the mainstream press, many times disguised as news, planted by who knows who, but with a purpose - to sell pharmaceuticals.

This steady drip of lies, distortions and untruths, starting before 1970, when Pauling reacted, affects everyone.

The end result of this stream of lies, often disguised as "news" stories, is that people who rely on the mainstream news media (i.e. most people) believe in medicine, because after all, most people very much WANT to believe in their doctors. (Personally, I stopped watching the news years ago after realizing that what we think is unbiased, objective news - isn't.)

And there isn't much you can do to change minds. One beomes much more at peace when you realize this simple truth. You can and should tell people what you know, but don’t be disconsolate if they don’t listen.

What is going on is actually worse than the holocaust. This fact itself works against belief. And almost nothing you can say or do will change peoples minds. So work from a new idea. This is called "positioning."

Remember, we have science on our side. Big time, real, rigorous, 100,000 paper type science. This means that as real scientists pursue the truth, in an honest and fair manner, what we are saying will likely be validated.

But right now, truth doesn't matter if a) Doctors are taught psuedo science (and believe that no one in authority would allow them to be taught anything else), and b) the mainstream media is incapable of telling or purusing the truth, when the truth might jeapordize billions.

Facing this uphill battle, there are many hopefull signs. More people visit alternative practioners (including Chiropractors) in the USA every year, even though insurance generally only pays for conventional medical visits and treatment. Why? According to the AMA, (who was also very curious) this is because people find that alternatives generally work better.

Can we use this to help our loved ones? Maybe. The approach you might try to use is to wait for regular medicine to fail. It will eventually, and then raise the possibility of an alternative.

You might also point out that there are two sides to every story, and that your relaitves are only getting the prescription drugs side through their doctors. Etc.

But if we knew the answer, the world would be a very different place.
Last edited by ofonorow on Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:27 am, edited 4 times in total.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

Kay

Post Number:#3  Post by Kay » Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:39 pm

Two years ago, after filling a prescription and not thinking twice about it because after all, my doctor wrote it, right? I was rushed to the ER. My body swelled up like a balloon, my lips and eyes shut,
my throat rapidly closing up as well. I was terrified. Bumps like welts spread all over my body.
The doctor in the ER said "are you on drugs?" (smart ass) and I said, "only the one my doctor prescribed"

I had a drug reaction that almost killed me because I was not able to swallow and breathing was becoming difficult. Of course, I live 5 minutes from the fire station. The nurse in the ER actually told me that she had someone die from rilafin (spell) the drug I had taken that morning.

They gave me - you guessed it, another drug, some kind of steriod to allow me to swallow. A shot.
After a few days I was okay.
This was not the only time this happened but this was the most severe. Other times, it was NSAID. I will never take them again as long as I live.

When you are forced to look for alternatives you begin to ask yourself why in the hell anyone would want to take a chance on having something like this happening. In many ways, I'm almost relieved that I can refuse with good reason.

I totally understand your frustration. You cannot force people to make informed choices.
Some think that just because it is a doctor telling you something, that is gospel.

It isn't always that way. They can be right but brother, they can be - wrong, sometimes dead wrong.

Dolev
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Post Number:#4  Post by Dolev » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:26 am

Guest,

You bring up a major problem. Maybe that's one reason for this forum to exist - help us all blow off steam and share our hearts about this frustration. I'm currently writing a book with Don Quixote in the title. We're all attacking windmills. The consolation is that if even one person listens to you, and his life is saved or improved, it makes all your efforts worthwhile. "He who saves one life is as if he saved the whole world" (Talmud). I am lucky to have the consolation of teaching orthomolecular nutrition to some students. I'm sure that their lives will be improved, and that each of them will influence others. All of us are creating a widening circle of knowledge. There really are millions of individuals in the world who are benefiting through this knowledge. Good luck and be strong. I hope somehow your family members wise up.

Blessings,
Dolev
Dolev

MKaping

Post Number:#5  Post by MKaping » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:46 am

Back in the early 1980s an old retired doctor told some of us here that, if we wanted to live to a healthy old age, we'd better stay away from doctors. At the time, I thought he was joking, but I have since changed my mind...I think he saw what was coming.

antioxidant_addict

Overcoming people's brainwashing

Post Number:#6  Post by antioxidant_addict » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:58 am

I've won over my Brother as he's a gym freak and knows that Vit C is essentially a weak anabolic steroid in terms of enhanced recovery.
The bodybuilding/althete community are often well ahead of everybody with regard to supplements that work and Vitamin C is taken by most bodybuilders because it relieves painful stiff muscle and hardens then up. Its old news and I read about it when I was 13. I was painfully skinny as a kid and started weights and took Vitc 2000mg a day because it works. I couldn't really offord to buy any more only doing a paper-round!!!

I've also won my parents over and they take around 1-2000mgs a day. Better than not taking any a t all ay?

THE KEY TO WINNING PEOPLE OVER :
Educate yourself with the facts! Buy a physical book on Vit C and show your Mum. As it'll be written usually by a Doctor, this will give it some credence. However, it is an uphill battle. You have to explain why VIT C is King as if your're explaining it to a 5 year old. Remember that most people have no scientific qualifications and the older they are the more defiant people are unwilling to change their viewpoints. Deal with the facts (what an antioxidant is, how it prevents cholesterol being oxidised ("Keeps blood like Olive oil instead of rancid lard" ) it protects cells from being damaged by free radicals(What "Free radicals are"), VITC 100% Non toxic, its cheap, your body does not make it, its stimulates all parts of the immune system...and so on...) Speak clearly with an air of authority which will be easy once you're "clued up" on Vit C and other anti's. Read read read!!!!

SOME OTHER TRICKS : Get 20 Vitamin 1000MG tabs and eat them all over an hour.
Speak about it in a fun way - speak in terms of what other people have said about the Pauling Therapy - like I say deal with the evidence and the facts and people will change thir viewpoint....

CHECK THIS OUT - PRINT IT AND SHOW IT HER ! download the film - GOOD LUCK!!!
http://www.internetwks.com/owen/stories.html

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Debunking

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:42 am

These are all great ideas, but the fact remains that what we are up against is a massive vitamin debunking campaign that has used the media as a tool for more than 35 years. ( And lately, the pharmcos have been allowed to advertise directly to consumers in the USA!)

Debunking campaigns are designed to make people who take the side being debunked look like nuts. (I am sure this is why Dr. Dolev is so comfortable wearing the Quack title.)

Pauling made a huge dent - his prestige resulted in a 300% increase in vitamin C intake after 1970, which resulted in a 40% decline in cardiovascular disease mortality (according to the Linus Pauling Institute.)

I have a cousin who is very intelligent, but he believes entirely in his cardiologist (who has, after all, 8 plus years of medical training) and thinks I am basically an irrational nut, not skeptical and easily swayed by any claim favorable to vitamin C. He takes his statin daily, emails me every time a favorable article about statins makes the newspaper (which appearsto be every other week) and has told me he would rather die than read all the material I try to get him to read.

On the other hand, he did decide to take CoQ10 - just in case, and he also decided to take some good multi-vitamins, again, just in case. Recently he told me he had "graduated" from his doctors cholesterol lowering program. He was the only one who had ever graduated. Yet he was unable to put 2 and 2 together, that the supplements might have had something to do with that.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

antioxidant_addict

Post Number:#8  Post by antioxidant_addict » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:45 am

http://www.internetwks.com/owen/stories.html


NOTE : I SEE THE OLD COMMENT ABOUT THE BODY NOT BEING ABLE TO ABSORB MORE THAN 550MG IS IN THERE...WRONG WRONG WRONG! Who are these Doctors? I think they must be incompetent!? Where did he get his info from?? How can a layman like me with only a chemistry O'level understand that from ONE book, the case for Vitamin C in all its majesty is completely irrefutable? Maybe because most of the Doctors on the planet ( because the hospitals would be empty) would be out of a job if the Planet knew the truth...

Vitamin C may help the heart
By LISA GREENE, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published July 16, 2003

The old theory about vitamin C, that it helps prevent the common cold, still hasn't proved true. - (PURE JOURNALISTIC IGNORANCE)ED.
-lisa - you should be ashamed of yourself )
But a new study says it might help prevent something more important: heart disease.

A study tracking more than 85,000 nurses over 16 years found that those taking vitamin C supplements had a 28 percent lower risk of getting heart disease.

"Mama was right - drink your orange juice," joked Dr. Joel Strom, director of the division of cardiovascular disease at the University of South Florida.

The study doesn't conclusively prove that vitamin C helps prevent heart disease, and doctors aren't ready to recommend it to all patients. But Strom and others said the study should reassure those who choose to take it.

"People who want to take vitamin C won't be harmed," Strom said. "That's one of the key findings."

Biochemist Balz Frei, director of the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University, called the study "very intriguing." Frei wrote an editorial to accompany the study, both published in today's issue of the journal Cardiology.

"A multivitamin makes a lot of sense to me as health insurance," Frei said.

The maximum benefit would come from taking 400 to 500 mg per day, Frei said. The body can't absorb more.

Vitamin C, or ascorbic acid, is found in citrus as well as other fruits and vegetables. The U.S. recommended dietary allowance is 90 mg a day for men and 75 mg a day for women.

The study used data from the Nurses' Health Study, run by researchers from Harvard University and several Boston hospitals and funded by the National Institutes of Health.

Starting in 1976, nurses completed questionnaires every two years, answering detailed information about what foods they ate. About 19 percent of them took daily vitamin C supplements.

Sixteen years later, 1,356 women had developed heart disease. But women taking supplements were less likely to do so.

But scientists still are cautious. They pointed out that the nurses chose whether to take vitamin C. Despite the size of the study, the results don't carry as much weight as a clinical trial, in which doctors assign patients at random to take a drug or a dummy pill, then compare the results.

Doctors are even more cautious after last year's findings that hormone therapy, after years of observational studies that showed benefits, actually proved harmful in clinical trials.

"We learned a lot from the hormone lessons," said Kevin Garner, director of cardiac rehabilitation at Bayfront Medical Center in St. Petersburg. "What makes sense and looks appealing . . . could still be wrong."

Just as with hormone therapy, women who took vitamin C were more likely to exercise and less likely to smoke. Researchers took those factors into account and adjusted their findings, but it's still possible that some lifestyle differences couldn't be measured.

Researchers believe vitamin C helps keep low-density lipoprotein, the "bad" cholesterol that contributes to heart disease, from building up on artery walls.

Other vitamins and foods, from beta carotene to soy, are being studied in search of the same effect - keeping bad cholesterol from oxidizing, which makes it more likely to stick to arteries.

"Is there this perfect antioxidant out there that will do the job?" Garner said.

In this study, researchers didn't find a connection between getting vitamin C from fruits and vegetables and a reduced risk of heart disease. That could be because the questionnaires are an imprecise way of measuring what people really eat. But researchers also said it could be a sign that vitamin C itself, not just other substances in foods, has a benefit.

"They do have pretty compelling data that in this particular study, vitamin C did have an effect, it's not just eating fruits and vegetables," Frei said.
More may be better

f,10,hr0 rr Vitamin C is found in citrus and other fruits and vegetables. The U.S. recommended dietary allowance is 90 mg a day for men and 75 mg for women. Taking a supplement that raises that to 400 to 500 mg per day would give the maximum benefit, an expert says. - WHICH EXPERT? AN EXPERT IN WHAT? NONSENSE? DELIBERATELY INCORRECT!!!

Dolev
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Post Number:#9  Post by Dolev » Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:36 pm

quack, quack, who's a quack?

The RDA is absolutely enough... for a cockroach.
Dolev

Kay

Post Number:#10  Post by Kay » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:28 pm

It can be frustrating but i do want to say that when my collarbone broke, I needed a doctor. No, I didn't want surgery but well, there it was sticking through the skin and me going into shock. I have great respect for a doctor.

The thing is I'm just adamant about continuing a life of pills when there could be and is a better way. I even refused a steriod shot for pain for the shoulder and when I went into surgery, they had to work around my allergies. They admitted it was difficult but it was doable. I had my husband bring me my C and my Mineral Rich and I bounced back.
At age 55, that's not always easy to do, believe me.

I preach I guess you could call it that to members of my family. Some listen, others don't. My brother is off the Lipitor and his Doctor is upset. He had bruises on his arms. We don't know if that was the cause. The dr. didn't know.
But my brother is a body builder.
I told him about the CoQ10. He didn't have a clue as to any of that.

But I'm supposed to be on Prevacid (had a little heartburn last summer, imagine that) I shucked it for enzymnes and pineapple, doing great. I'm supposed to be on Zoloft, I had a bad day a couple visits but I'm not depressed. Just needed more sunshine and a change of scenery. And they wanted me to take of course, the Lipitor, Paxil, and several other meds. SORRY, Charlie, my insurance pays for them in full but I still do not think its necessary at this point in my life.

Dolev
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Post Number:#11  Post by Dolev » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:30 pm

I also sure am glad that there are doctors to take care of broken bones and all other trauma events, cause they are really good at that. They should only know that C helps post-trauma healing, including from surgery. In fact, part of Dr. Cathcart's discovery of vitamin C was that his orthopedic surgery patients healed so fast that the other doctors couldn't understand it. When the patient would announce to them that it was the vitamin C that was helping, the doctors filed out of the room with no comment, and stopped referring their patients to Cathcart. Talk about frustration :!:
Dolev

antioxidant_addict

Doctors

Post Number:#12  Post by antioxidant_addict » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:49 am

Well Dolev,

If Doctors behave like that, then the planet really is doomed I'm afraid....maybe the human race is too dumb to understand Vitamin C powers...Doctors are supposed to be clever poeple, yet over 100,000 studies on Vitamin C which is the 2nd most studied nutrient ever, only and handful of then on the planet seems to prescribe it !

Stevo

:?

davids

History and the way of the world/society

Post Number:#13  Post by davids » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:55 pm

Stevo,

I believe even a superficial examination of history will show that many, if not most, new discoveries (be they medical, mechanical, or whatever, e.g. Socrates, DaVinci, Lind, Semmelweis, Pasteur, Klenner, Krebs, Pauling, etc., etc., etc.) were resisted by the existing "hierarchy" if those discoveries could not be used to/for their advantage [which, in my view, has been the majority of such inventions/discoveries]. Invariably, the existing hierarchy has a vested interest in the status quo. And that same hierarchy invariably has the means to control what the masses learn about, i.e. they control the usual means of mass communication. That heirarchy must invariably die off first, before the discovery can become common knowledge. It has always been so, and probably always will be so. This fact has not "doomed" society yet, and probably will not. Society will just continue to move forward at its own ["snail's"] pace. It is painful for those in the "know" to watch, but I suspect we have no choice [in the short run].

For our own sakes [first] though, I think we must do what we can.

David

Guest

a joke

Post Number:#14  Post by Guest » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:26 am

Hehe! This reminds me of a joke I heard: This guy goes out to work, and finds an insurance sitting on his car , arms spread out. So he asks "Hey insurance what are you doing hugging my car?", and the insurance answers "I'm not hugging, i'm a BLANKET". :lol: :lol: :lol:




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