bowel tolerance and lypo C

This forum will focus on the interesting topic of titrating oral vitamin C intake to so-called bowel tolerance, the point just prior to the onset of diarrhea

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KatRNC

bowel tolerance and lypo C

Post Number:#1  Post by KatRNC » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:32 am

I'm sure there are probably posts here that I haven't gotten to yet, but I thought it might be interesting to start another topic. Owen has told me to use Lypo-C at the "end of the day" to help increase bowel tolerance and reduce gas. I'm confused about this. According to what I've read, including Hickey/Roberts books, the half life of C even in the gut is quick, therefore one needs to have frequent dosing in order to create increased plasma levels.

I have taken 5g at a time, to alleviate constipation. (it works great, btw) But if I take 2g or 3g every few hours, that doesn't occur. My question is this: If C is excreted in the gut in 4-6 hours (if it's not pulled from the gut b/c of plasma needs), why is a daily dose cumulative? Why would Lypo-C help with gas if only taken at the end of the day? In my mind, each dose is to be titrated to bowel tolerance, instead of the "daily dose".

What am I missing?

Kathy

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Re: bowel tolerance and lypo C

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:01 pm

From orthomed.com/titrate.htm
In 1970, I discovered that the sicker a patient was, the more ascorbic acid he would tolerate by mouth before diarrhea was produced. At least 80% of adult patients will tolerate 10 to 15 grams of ascorbic acid fine crystals in 1/2 cup water divided into 4 doses per 24 hours without having diarrhea. The astonishing finding was that all patients, tolerant of ascorbic acid, can take greater amounts of the substance orally without having diarrhea when ill or under stress. This increased tolerance is somewhat proportional to the toxicity of the disease being treated. Tolerance is increased some by stress (e.g., anxiety, exercise, heat, cold, etc.)(see FIGURE I). Admittedly, increasing the frequency of doses increases tolerance perhaps to half again as much, but the tolerances of sometimes over 200 grams per 24 hours were totally unexpected. Representative doses taken by tolerant patients titrating their ascorbic acid intake between the relief of most symptoms and the production of diarrhea were as follows:


Perhaps it is only near tolerance doses that the ascorbate is pushed into the primary sites of the disease?


The maximum relief of symptoms which can be expected with oral doses of ascorbic acid is obtained at a point just short of the amount which produces diarrhea. The amount and the timing of the doses are usually sensed by the patient. The physician should not try to regulate exactly the amount and timing of these doses because the optimally effective dose will often change from dose to dose. Patients are instructed on the general principles of determining doses and given estimates of the reasonable starting amounts and timing of these doses. I have named this process of the patient determining the optimum dose, TITRATING TO BOWEL TOLERANCE. The patient tries to TITRATE between that amount which begins to make him feel better and that amount which almost but not quite causes diarrhea.

I think it is only that excess amount of ascorbate not absorbed into the body which causes diarrhea; what does not reach the rectum, does not cause diarrhea.

It is interesting to know, when one speculates on the exact cause of this diarrhea, that while a hypertonic solution of sodium ascorbate is being administered intravenously, the amount of ascorbic acid tolerated orally actually increases.


Dr. Cathcart provides a great deal of information here, but the major idea is that there is a level and frequency of taking vitamin C - just below tolerance, that keeps one from getting diarrhea, but that provides relief of symptoms. As he mentions, frequency can affect this tolerance.

My point, however, is that when a patient is at the optimal tolerance level, just below diarrhea, they can increase the blood concentration without worry by adding Lypo-C at this point. In my experience, there is a cummulative effect, and you are probably right about the delay introduced by the digestive process in the gut.

So lets say I was fighting Cancer and had an ordinary bowel tolerance of around 30 g per day. I just think it makes sense to add Lypo-C after the 30 g, but you could argue you might want to try increasing the individual rations. Say if you were taking 10 g three times daily, you might consider 10 g + Lypo 3 times daily.

This is a good question.

This is more of an art than a science.
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