Why did we lose the ability to produce vitamin C?

[Van Carman]

Steve Coffman in his book,Ezekiel's Medicine names the loss of the liver enzyme gulonolactone oxidase as the result of Adam's disobedience in the Garden Of Eden.Go to the Book of Genesis and read the account.Please have a happy new year,vitamin C users,Van

[trillian]

Steve Coffman in his book,Ezekiel's Medicine names the loss of the liver enzyme gulonolactone oxidase as the result of Adam's disobedience in the Garden Of Eden.Go to the Book of Genesis and read the account.Please have a happy new year,vitamin C users,Van

So he is saying it is basically punishment from God then? He is an advocate of high dose ascorbic acid so he must have
a philosophy about this, as in "Hey what Adam did isn't my fault so why should I suffer"

[Van Carman]

You can thank God that vitamin C is inexpensive and available and that this information gateway is open.I do.Sincerely Van

[NaturopathMan]

One theory is that the evolutionary advantage is the starvation advantage. A relatively large amount of glucose is used up to produce ascorbate. One can easily imagine the scenario where an ascorbate producer remains very healthy early on, but dies of starvation before the springtime comes. Also easy to imagine is the otherwise identical genetic mutant that uses no glucose for ascorbate, who is with scurvy but alive in the spring.

It is also said that domesticated animals produce less ascorbate than wild animals. People that raise animals would naturally like the animals that grew faster and larger and needed less food. If the reason that they grew faster and larger and needed less food was because they produced less ascorbate, then that trait would be inadvertantly selected for by breeding.

I think what you mentioned above may be a sound theory. It may also be simply that primates and guinea pigs get enormous amounnts of vitamin c in their diets so nature being as resourceful as it is may have figured that it is better to put energy towards things that are more of a necessity.

[zucic]

It may also be simply that primates and guinea pigs get enormous amounnts of vitamin c in their diets so nature being as resourceful as it is may have figured that it is better to put energy towards things that are more of a necessity.

I think that Linus Pauling wrote something like that, a long time ago. A similar discussion was present before in General
Forum. I still think that loss of GULO lead to one more advantage: more efficient glucoronidation (a detox method) after
changing evolutionary niche.

[Ralph Lotz]

In this republic you have the freedom to believe whomsoever you choose.

GOD

Through one man sin came into the world. (Adam - the first Adam)
Through one man, Jesus Christ (the last Adam) comes salvation, grace and truth.
" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God - John. 1:1

Good News http://www.vitamincstore.com/page46.html

Darwin, who thinks you are a decendent of a monkey.

[sweetjames]

God created vitamin c,GENESIS chapter 1 verse 11, Then God said, let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them, and it was so. It seems the almighty had this covered in his perfect plan.

[Serdna]

Hi everyone!

I am new here so I briefly present myself: I am an 43 years old engineer (PhD) that has lost his faith on conventional western preventive medicine. So I am now following paleo nutritional advice (Perfect Health Diet mainly), sunbathing without protection and supplementing D3 when unable to do it, and saturating my blood of ascorbic acid (and beyond through the liposomal one) on any sickness sign (five times the last year and a half) on top of the daily 3g. Anybody near enough that I have been able to convinced is doing the same: my father has improved his COPD symptoms lately. I write a low-visited blog in spanish: I just want my daughters to have the information accessible, just in case.

I would like to ask something about the Zucic's hypothesis.

Not that I doubt your research, and your hypotheses is the first one about the GULO mutation that does perfect sense. I just would like to see it (your hypothesis) in a more formal and complete referenced state: have you published it or written any more complete presentation accessible on the web? (I haven't found it on your site). For the moment, I will reference your message on this thread.

Thanks.

I have done some search and found these interesting things:
(1) The compound called UDP-glucuronic acid is used by liver
to perfom detoxification.
(2) The same compound is an intermediate in ascorbate synthesis.
(3) UDP is still made by our livers.
(4) The first GULO gene mutation, which wreched the gene, occured a
long time ago, yet the remaining three enzymes are still working.

Here is a simple theory:
- There was a plenty of ascorbate in a diet of our ancestor, but some
environmental disaster forced these creatures to include some foods
which were ignored before. The same disaster maybe even caused
the mutation.
- Mutation spared small fraction of glucose, but large fraction of
UDP-glucuronic acid for detoxification.
- Significantly improved detoxification was an obvious advantage,
while the loss of ascorbate synthesis was not very significant, because
the newly introduced foods also contained ascorbate.

I still think that loss of GULO lead to one more advantage: more efficient glucoronidation (a detox method) after
changing evolutionary niche.

[ofonorow]

Unfortunately zucic has passed - too quickly (strangely), in my opinion.

[studentroland]

I am always interested in the question as to why we lost the ability to produce vitamin C? Genetic studies have shown that humans, as well as other scurvy-prone mammals, was able to synthesize vitamin C endogously at one point, but lost this ability 25 million year ago.

This is an interesting question...but I´ve also read that the ability was lost 63 mya?

Loss of GULO activity in the primate order occurred about 63 million years ago, at about the time it split into the suborders haplorrhini (which lost the enzyme activity) and the more primitive strepsirrhini (which retained it). The haplorrhini ("simple nosed") primates, which cannot make vitamin C enzymatically, include the tarsiers and the simians (apes, monkeys and humans). The suborder strepsirrhini (bent or wet-nosed prosimians), which are still able to make vitamin C enzymatically, include lorises, galagos, pottos, and, to some extent, lemurs.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-gulonolactone_oxidase#cite_note-pmid3113259-7
If this is so, then perhaps the loss of the GULO-enzyme occurred as a result of the "Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event" that happened around roughly that time, when the dinosaurs ceased to rule the environment?
http://www.scientificpsychic.com/etc/timeline/timeline.html

[ofonorow]

63 million years is highly doubtful.. that this mutation would survive that long.

I believe Pauling gives and estimate in HTLLAFB, something more like 3 million years. I'll double check and edit

[richard96816]

The idea that 'tameness', or domestication has a role in changing vitamin C levels is interesting.

Don't forget that C is a powerful anti-toxin.

Consider goats and wild rats that appear to be able to eat just about anything. They also, apparently produce larger than expected amounts of vitamin C.

Wild animals are more likely to experience a much greater diversity in food intake. With a possible need for greater ability to deal with toxins.