Vitamin C, Vitamin K, plus Insulin for cancer. What’s insulin for?

Physician Reference and discussion of the methods, protocols and effects of intravenous vitamin C (versus oral or liposomal).

Moderators: ofonorow, popnowlin

OxC
Vitamin C Master
Vitamin C Master
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Contact:

Vitamin C, Vitamin K, plus Insulin for cancer. What’s insulin for?

Post Number:#1  Post by OxC » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:43 pm

I’ve been following an interesting crowd-funding effort for a woman with metastatic cervical cancer Caring for Christine. The funding is to help her pay for treatment at a facility outside the USA, where she is receiving IV therapy called CK3, which refers to VitC plus a form of VitK (VitK3, aka menadione). It appears this facility also adds insulin to the infusion. According to info on the crowd-funding site, this woman is making a remarkable recovery…at least so far.

The proposed mechanism of CK3 is similar to that proposed for just IVC alone (i.e. it induces peroxide production that kills cancer cells). But it further is proposed that adding a small amount of VitK3, due to redox cycling with oxygen and ascorbate, results in much faster ascorbate oxidation and therefore much greater amounts of peroxide. But why add insulin to the mix?

The oxidation of ascorbate produces dehydroascorbic acid. This DHAA is transported into cells by glucose transporters. High blood glucose competes for the transporters, so the cells cannot absorb as much DHAA. One way to enhance the absorption of DHAA during this therapy would be to lower blood glucose by administering insulin simultaneously. I’ve previously expressed on this forum my hypothesis that DHAA and peroxide behave synergistically in killing cancer cells viewtopic.php?p=41985#p41985 The inclusion of insulin by this particular facility suggests to me that they may also recognize this synergism.
Douglas Q. Kitt, founder of ReCverin LLC, sellers of stabilized dehydroascorbic acid solutions.

High Sierra Medical
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Vitamin C, Vitamin K, plus Insulin for cancer. What’s insulin for?

Post Number:#2  Post by High Sierra Medical » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:35 pm

IMHO there is no need to add insulin to this infusion. The reason why is that high dose intravenous ascorbate cause a surge of insulin from the pancreas and blood glucose levels go below 20. Fortunately, ascorbate crosses the blood brain barrier easily and the brain can run on ascorbate, which utilize the same channels as glucose. The insulin, therefore, probably poses no risk but also no benefit.

OxC
Vitamin C Master
Vitamin C Master
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Vitamin C, Vitamin K, plus Insulin for cancer. What’s insulin for?

Post Number:#3  Post by OxC » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:41 pm

High Sierra Medical wrote:high dose intravenous ascorbate cause a surge of insulin from the pancreas...

That's an interesting statement. I have found the literature in regard to the effect of Vit C on insulin secretion to be somewhat confusing. For example, a 1993 study suggests that ascorbate inhibits rather than stimulates insulin release. However, this was an effect demonstrated on isolated rat pancreatic islets in vitro, and the ascorbate concentrations tested were only up to 400 uM. So its difficult to say whether this is even pertinent to the effects of mM concentrations from IVC in vivo in humans. A 1965 study in rats that were given very high IVC (700 mg/kg) showed no visible difference in degranulation of pancreatic B-cells under the electron microscope (a visual indicator of insulin secretion) and no lowering of plasma glucose. However, when the rats in the same study were administered high intravenous doses of DHAA, degranulation of the B-cells was pronounced and the rats were "hypoglycemic 6 hours after every injection," leading them to conclude that the "primary effect of DHA is an exaggerated secretory response of B-cells."

So I'm curious that when you say "high dose intravenous ascorbate cause a surge of insulin from the pancreas" whether this experience has been with high dose IVC alone, or with IVC plus menadione? As the menadione appears to increase the oxidation of ascorbate and therefore the amount of DHAA.

And just an interesting aside. You stated in another thread that "I prefer Vitamin K3, aka Menadione. This is synergistic with ascorbate in the treatment of cancer." This study, Oxidation with air by ascorbate-driven quinone redox cycling demonstrated that Vitamin K1 is also an excellent redox-cycling catalyst, although only half as efficient as K3. They didn't test Vitamin K2 in this study, but there is at least some evidence here and elsewhere that all forms of Vitamin K may be synergistic with ascorbate in the treatment of cancer, although menadione may be the best.
Douglas Q. Kitt, founder of ReCverin LLC, sellers of stabilized dehydroascorbic acid solutions.

High Sierra Medical
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Vitamin C, Vitamin K, plus Insulin for cancer. What’s insulin for?

Post Number:#4  Post by High Sierra Medical » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:37 pm

Please, do not compare apples with oranges. My statements are based on clinical observations on real patients (many real patients, not lab rats).

Ascorbate, alone, produces a profound drop in serum glucose (i.e. Menadione is not necessary). You can promote whatever theory appeals to you. They are still theories. Interestingly, even though serum glucose remains in single digits, because the brain can utilize ascorbate as an energy substrate people's mental faculties are preserved.

Another phenomena that I have observed is a client coincidentally, had blood work performed shortly after a Vitamin C push (30,000 mg) and the Total Cholesterol result was 0, yes zero. Makes me wonder where the Cholesterol was sequestered so rapidly.

OxC
Vitamin C Master
Vitamin C Master
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Vitamin C, Vitamin K, plus Insulin for cancer. What’s insulin for?

Post Number:#5  Post by OxC » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:57 pm

High Sierra Medical wrote:Ascorbate, alone, produces a profound drop in serum glucose (i.e. Menadione is not necessary).

Thank you for your reply to my question:
OxC wrote:I'm curious that when you say "high dose intravenous ascorbate cause a surge of insulin from the pancreas" whether this experience has been with high dose IVC alone, or with IVC plus menadione?

Sorry that that question appears to have offended you in some way.
Douglas Q. Kitt, founder of ReCverin LLC, sellers of stabilized dehydroascorbic acid solutions.

OxC
Vitamin C Master
Vitamin C Master
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Vitamin C, Vitamin K, plus Insulin for cancer. What’s insulin for?

Post Number:#6  Post by OxC » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:02 pm

High Sierra Medical wrote:Another phenomena that I have observed is a client coincidentally, had blood work performed shortly after a Vitamin C push (30,000 mg) and the Total Cholesterol result was 0, yes zero. Makes me wonder where the Cholesterol was sequestered so rapidly.

Most cholesterol assays in clinical laboratories use an enzymatic colorimetric method with the Trinder end-point reaction, in which hydrogen peroxide reacts with a chromogen via peroxidase to form a colored product; absorbance of this product is proportional to the concentration of total cholesterol in the sample. Ascorbic acid interferes with peroxidase-based oxidation of the chromogen...

As all of our cases showed extremely low total cholesterol levels, the laboratory technician easily noticed analytical errors and tried to troubleshoot them before reporting the results. These problems occurred in approximately one case bimonthly and were reported to managers and documented....

In conclusion, when colorimetric enzymatic assays detect inappropriately low levels of total cholesterol, we should suspect ascorbic acid interference.

Ascorbate Oxidase Minimizes Interference by High-Concentration Ascorbic Acid in Total Cholesterol Assays
Douglas Q. Kitt, founder of ReCverin LLC, sellers of stabilized dehydroascorbic acid solutions.

jimmylesante
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Vitamin C, Vitamin K, plus Insulin for cancer. What’s insulin for?

Post Number:#7  Post by jimmylesante » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:55 am

Another phenomena that I have observed is a client coincidentally, had blood work performed shortly after a Vitamin C push (30,000 mg) and the Total Cholesterol result was 0, yes zero. Makes me wonder where the Cholesterol was sequestered so rapidly.


This is a very interesting conversation and observation above.


Return to “Intravenous Vitamin C (IV/C)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests