Testing for progress-

[Lucky1]

Hi-
I’m new here and just started the Pauling Protocol and wonder if anyone has any ideas about any reliable repeatable non-invasive tests. Ideally I’d like to establish a baseline and then repeat to gauge whether or not my efforts are productive.

I have used a basic calcium scan but that doesn’t seem specific enough. I can’t find anyone near me that does the CardioRetinometry. Measuring arterial wall thickness and flow in the carotid artery with ultrasound was mentioned by one author but does that correlate accurately to stenotic arteries in the heart? CCTA sounds like the best but I think it would be difficult to find a doctor to order for me more often than every few years especially if I told them why.

Any input would be appreciated! Thank you all!

[eDOC]

about any reliable repeatable non-invasive tests. Ideally I’d like to establish a baseline and then repeat to gauge whether or not my efforts are productive.

I have used a basic calcium scan but that doesn’t seem specific enough. I can’t find anyone near me that does the CardioRetinometry. Measuring arterial wall thickness and flow in the carotid artery with ultrasound was mentioned by one author but does that correlate accurately to stenotic arteries in the heart? CCTA sounds like the best but I think it would be difficult to find a doctor to order for me more often than every few years especially if I told them why.

reliable repeatable non-invasive tests.

This is what I recommend to my patients and a few members that have treated: (Ideal situation rarely exist in life or medicine).

1. Basic blood work. (BMP.)
2. Carotid Doppler Sonography.
3. Cardiac ECHO (Echocardiography).
4. Calcium score.
5. CT Angio.

I don't recommend Cardiac Retinometry.

I understand that is hard to repeat CT Angio early since most conv. doc won't recommend, unless have a patient in my Research Center where hypothetically I can repeat it on a weekly basis...

Carotid Doppler is as good a gauge to correlate any stenosis in coronary vessels.

Using my created custom protocol doesn't take more than 12 weeks to clear Atherosclerosis, lowering Calcium, reversing stenosis etc.

I have no idea about your med. history, symptoms, blood works, any conv. meds you are on and understand that most don't share them on a public forum.

My way of treating initially is with blood works, history, symptoms etc. I carry these repeatable tests after 4-6 weeks and lastly at the end (IF required or just to confirm).

You are welcome.
Good luck with whatever therapy/protocol you are on.

eDOC!!

[Lucky1]

Thank you eDOC for your response! (and My apologies for my late response.)

I had an over 500 score in my right coronary artery on a calcium scan. (Left anterior descending is 237, and others minimal).
I passed the treadmill stress test without pain and only symptom is occasional tightness in chest, no angina, but because the scan score indicates a higher likelihood of an event within the next 2 to 5 years I tried the Tibetan Padma Basic formula for six months. The next calcium scan score went up to 700. I know that may not actually mean much. (Did the Padma stabilize the plaque and so there’s more calcium there, or am I accruing more plaque?)

I freaked out and presently doing the Pauling protocol – (10 grams vita c which is my bowel tolerance, 4g lysine and 2g proline plus COQ10, K2. Vitamin E, etc.) I want to be able to non-invasively track any progress. From what I’ve read and been told I can’t count on small variations in the calcium score, but I imagine large changes would be indicative.
You mentioned basic blood work. Is there any specific basic bloodwork that is especially indicative of plaque regression and/or stabilization ?

You mention Carotid Doppler Sonography. Are you saying that if there is significant plaque in the carotid, it generally correlates to the same amount in a heart artery? So a reduction in one would indicate a reduction in the other?

Also, I thought echocardiography could only show what was going on in the valves and can’t see arterial flow. Is there a version of it that can see blockages in the arteries?

I want to see if the vitamin C works, but my other major concern is plaque stability without statins. I understand that the vitamin C is supposed to work with collagen to naturally heal the arterial lining, but does this also create a stable plaque because that seems to be one of the main advantages of statins (if not the only advantage). I guess the question is, will the vitamin c protocol also stabilize the plaque or do I have to take statins or something else to do that?

I want to thank you for taking your valuable time to respond to questions on this forum. It is clearly a much needed resource for very difficult to find information and your assistance is sincerely appreciated!

[eDOC]

I had an over 500 score in my right coronary artery on a calcium scan. (Left anterior descending is 237, and others minimal).
I passed the treadmill stress test without pain and only symptom is occasional tightness in chest, no angina, but because the scan score indicates a higher likelihood of an event within the next 2 to 5 years I tried the Tibetan Padma Basic formula for six months. The next calcium scan score went up to 700. I know that may not actually mean much. (Did the Padma stabilize the plaque and so there’s more calcium there, or am I accruing more plaque?)

I freaked out and presently doing the Pauling protocol – (10 grams vita c which is my bowel tolerance, 4g lysine and 2g proline plus COQ10, K2. Vitamin E, etc.) I want to be able to non-invasively track any progress. From what I’ve read and been told I can’t count on small variations in the calcium score, but I imagine large changes would be indicative.
You mentioned basic blood work. Is there any specific basic bloodwork that is especially indicative of plaque regression and/or stabilization ?

You mention Carotid Doppler Sonography. Are you saying that if there is significant plaque in the carotid, it generally correlates to the same amount in a heart artery? So a reduction in one would indicate a reduction in the other?

Also, I thought echocardiography could only show what was going on in the valves and can’t see arterial flow. Is there a version of it that can see blockages in the arteries?

I want to see if the vitamin C works, but my other major concern is plaque stability without statins. I understand that the vitamin C is supposed to work with collagen to naturally heal the arterial lining, but does this also create a stable plaque because that seems to be one of the main advantages of statins (if not the only advantage). I guess the question is, will the vitamin c protocol also stabilize the plaque or do I have to take statins or something else to do that?

Answers to your queries based upon my clinical experience of treating people with Cardiovascular Disorders (Angina, MI, Atherosclerosis, plaques, valve defects, Atrial Fibrillation, aortic issues etc.)

1. Why I don't rely initially on noninvasive tests is that, just from mere physical appearance, medical, personal history I know how to start my protocol and what is the cause for all issues.

2. Cause in most people besides Genetics, is Stress, Entropy, Life style which ultimately leads to it.

3. I know many patients, who neither smoke, drink, exercise regularly BUT their Stress levels are sky rocketing. (job related, finances, or a nagging wife etc.).

4. I am clueless about what Tibetan Padma Basic formula.

5. I know about PT, BUT have never used it clinically on my patients.

6. Calcium score IMPO is only significant if it increases/decreases at least by +/-50. I have seen some of my patients getting more stressed by comparing their results.

7. Basic blood work: Nothing specific just like Electrolytes, Lipids, Liver panel, Troponin, Thrombin levels.

8.

You mention Carotid Doppler Sonography. Are you saying that if there is significant plaque in the carotid, it generally correlates to the same amount in a heart artery? So a reduction in one would indicate a reduction in the other?

Correct, not exactly in measurements but yes vice versa.

7.

I thought echocardiography could only show what was going on in the valves and can’t see arterial flow. Is there a version of it that can see blockages in the arteries?

Color Doppler does help diagnose any atherosclerotic plaque, stenosis besides evaluating valves.

I see a patient with a Cardiac (or any disease) disorder as a whole, and valvular function, stenosis, plaques, blood works, Ca score etc. are all linked, one cannot sperate them, you get one better all improve automatically.

8. I have none clinical results to share how good it does to improve intima, and plaque stabilization sounds a bit absurd. Hypothetically even if stabilized would break with time and may cause a cardiac insult.

9. My customized protocol in a short duration, scraps away all plaques, atherosclerotic lesions in all vessels, (within the heart, aorta and peripheral). And blood works and non invasive tests get normalized. It regenerates the heart and vascular system!!

10. I start with history and blood works and get the non invasive tests done twice max, just for the patient's peace of mind and for me that no further treatment is required.

Hope that clears any confusion.
You are welcome.
Good luck again.

eDOC!!




Added:

Ca score can never be normalized till the plaques, atherosclerotic, stenotic lesions in the vessels are cleared. +15/20 is acceptable in elderly or in high risk, doesn't necessarily have to be zero each time. It's a reflection of presence of a atherosclerotic plaque!!

[eDOC]

On rethinking, I have a strong feeling (hope am wrong) that your cardiac parameters are indicating a slow progression towards CCF.

eDOC!!



Added:

Did the Padma stabilize the plaque and so there’s more calcium there, or am I accruing more plaque?)

You are accruing MORE plaques, and atherothrombogenisis is proceeding at a faster pace.


PS: I don't receive notifications, hope the educated members might chime in with their wealth of med. knowledge.

[Lucky1]

Hi eDOC-

Thank you for the reply. I think it’s reasonable that stress and lack of exercise are the biggest factors beside genetics as causes of heart disease. In my case it was likely stress. But now that I have it, besides de-stressing, I’m interested in what I can do to avoid an heart attack. (A few months back a friend of mine had his annual physical with ekg and doc told him he was one of the healthiest patients he had and four hours latter he had a heart attack. That prompted me the get the calcium scan, which indicated that I have some build up going on.)

From what I’ve have read, reducing cholesterol is not really going to help, and about 75% of heart attacks are caused by ruptured plaque (not the growing to the point of obstruction idea that most people have in their heads.) And some plaques don’t grow into the lumen so the size of the obstruction is not an indicator; but the quality of, or stability of the plaque is. It seems to me that one would logically want to do whatever can be done to stabilize the plaque and that is something that statins supposedly do. (I don’t really want to take statins, but I can’t find any info on if the vita-C protocol creates stable plaque.)

But it doesn’t sound like you think that’s really all that important because what’s important is to resolve the issue of plaque in general and since you have a protocol to do that why bother with intermediate steps? Correct? In any case, I am intrigued. Can you share what the basics of the protocol you have seen work is? Might it have to do with Nattokinase? That’s the only other promising possibility I’ve run across besides the Pauling Protocol.
Once again, thanks eDOC !

[eDOC]

I’m interested in what I can do to avoid an heart attack.

It's not that complex, to have a total protection against heart attacks (having ALL the risk factors).

(A few months back a friend of mine had his annual physical with ekg and doc told him he was one of the healthiest patients he had and four hours latter he had a heart attack. That prompted me the get the calcium scan, which indicated that I have some build up going on.)

Acute Coronary artery spam or vaxxed using mRNA, OR BOTH.
Just a calcium score, no labs, CT Angio, ECHO etc.

From what I’ve have read, reducing cholesterol is not really going to help, and about 75% of heart attacks are caused by ruptured plaque (not the growing to the point of obstruction idea that most people have in their heads.) And some plaques don’t grow into the lumen so the size of the obstruction is not an indicator; but the quality of, or stability of the plaque is. It seems to me that one would logically want to do whatever can be done to stabilize the plaque and that is something that statins supposedly do. (I don’t really want to take statins, but I can’t find any info on if the vita-C protocol creates stable plaque.)

You are well read unlike me, an uneducated conv. doc.
Reducing Cholesterol does help in most.
Correct, MI and CVA/(Stroke) insults, by an embolus from a ruptured plaque.
Hypothetically using Statins and other supplements how long could one possibly make a plaque remain stable. It's going to break and dislodge some day, that only GOD knows.
Did you get a CT Angio or invasive, to see the location of the plaque and its size?
Have you been vaxxed using mRNA?

But it doesn’t sound like you think that’s really all that important because what’s important is to resolve the issue of plaque in general and since you have a protocol to do that why bother with intermediate steps? Correct? In any case, I am intrigued. Can you share what the basics of the protocol you have seen work is? Might it have to do with Nattokinase? That’s the only other promising possibility I’ve run across besides the Pauling Protocol.
Once again, thanks

Correct, why waste time with the unnecessary intermediate steps. Am only focused at resolving the plaque sooner, takes a shorter duration and total removal vs. larger chronic vice versa.
Even in some of my patients, if the plaque isn't totally eradicated, it can NEVER break or dislodge an embolus, using my treatment.
My protocol does not involve Nattokinase.
It's custom, tailor made for each individual despite conv., pick the best from Alternative, Supplements, TCM, CRISPR, Gene therapy....

Good luck once again.
And you are welcome.
eDOC!!

[Lucky1]

Hi eDOC-

“ It's not that complex, to have a total protection against heart attacks (having ALL the risk factors).”

You say it’s not that complex to have total protection – meaning your protocol provides that, or…?


“Acute Coronary artery spam or vaxxed using mRNA, OR BOTH.
Just a calcium score, no labs, CT Angio, ECHO etc.”

Are you suggesting my friend had a coronary spasm and that the vaccine may have contributed to it?
and
Are you asking me if all I’ve had is the calcium score of 700? If so , yes, only labs I have so far are Apoliopoprtein B of 106;
and lipids: total ch 222, hdl 72, trglicerides 91, ldl 131.

Can you suggest one or two best labs I could get done to monitor any regression of plaque?


“Did you get a CT Angio or invasive, to see the location of the plaque and its size?
Have you been vaxxed using mRNA?”

I’ve had no additional imaging, (cardiologist did a treadmill test which I passed w/o chest pain but therefore didn’t want to order any further testing, just put me on statin and aspirin). I’ve an appointment with a new cardiologist coming up where I will press for CCTA which I believe is the only non-invasive imaging (besides the calcium scan) that will show location and degree of plaque. And, yes I’ve had the mRNA vaccine.

Thank you your all information and for taking the time to participate in this forum to help others like me!!

Lucky1

[eDOC]

Hi Lucky1,

After 8 posts the clinical picture is clear. Initially I responded since none was replying.....

You say it’s not that complex to have total protection – meaning your protocol provides that, or…?

Correct. It provides total protection against MI's/Heart Attacks!!

Are you suggesting my friend had a coronary spasm and that the vaccine may have contributed to it?

Correct coronary spasm contributed by mRNA, after having cured approx. 300K Covid patients and removed Spike in mRNA vaxxed, in the last +3 yrs.

Are you asking me if all I’ve had is the calcium score of 700? If so , yes, only labs I have so far are Apoliopoprtein B of 106;
and lipids: total ch 222, hdl 72, trglicerides 91, ldl 131.

Acceptable, though Apo-B is slightly elevated.

Can you suggest one or two best labs I could get done to monitor any regression of plaque?

Not at the moment.

And, yes I’ve had the mRNA vaccine.

I personally feel with my clinical experience in the last 3 yrs, asides from Stress etc. mRNA is the culprit. Get Covid serology and see if you have Anti Spike IgG + OR -. IF +, get it removed before thinking about other labs, convincing the Cardio to prescribe CT Angio and starting useless Cyclooxyenase1/2 inhibitors/statins. Would do more harm than good.

You need Covid serology like this, post #26:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15471&start=15

before you think about reducing Ca score, CT Angio , plaque strengthen/eradication etc. IF Anti Spike IgG is + and you are unable to eliminate, it's useless and the atherothrombosis will keep progressing, Ca score won't normalize.

Most important is getting Covid serology. if is neg than think about about cardiac, else forget heart get Spike removed firstly.

Now I know the exact cause of your cardiac issues which are mRNA/Covid related.

Good luck again,
That's the best I could offer.
Hope you get all your issues resolved.
You're welcome.

eDOC!!


PS: Read my Covid thread if you want more info...

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=15077&start=45

[ofonorow]

I’m new here and just started the Pauling Protocol and wonder if anyone has any ideas about any reliable repeatable non-invasive tests. Ideally I’d like to establish a baseline and then repeat to gauge whether or not my efforts are productive.

I love eDOC, glad he posts here and have enjoyed his commentary on this thread, but you will note that he admits he is not an authority on the Pauling Therapy, having never tried or used it. As a practicing Medical Doctor, like all medical doctors, eDOC has no incentive to offer a modality that amounts to two of the least toxic substances known, that do not require a prescription (and thus even a doctor). This is the problem we have faced from the beginning.

As an expert in the Pauling therapy, having written a book and following these people for over 25 years, I would point you to this correspondence https://vitaminccures.com/blog/index.php/heart-disease-testimonials/ (and this is only a fraction of the feedback and Tower Laboratories maintains their own list of success stories.) The point is that if you don't have overt symptoms that can be relieved (such as intractable angina) it is difficult to know how beneficial Pauling's therapy is. But think about it, vitamin C is one of the most helpful supplements in the medicine cabinet, and even if it didn't reverse cardiovascular disease (CVD), there is no harm that can be done. And we know that while vitamin C can stabilize CVD, it doesn't reverse the condition on its own, but lysine does.

BTW, Pauling's associate says that plaques are reduced "molecule by molecule." Knock on wood, but we have never had a report of unstable plaque rupturing and causing a stoke. On the contrary, we have personal experience with relatives on operating tables who died during surgery when plaque did "break away" and get lodged in the brain or heart.

I will say that I have accepted the Pauling/Rath theory, especially because of this patent

5,230,996 - Use of Ascorbate and (Lysine) for Organ and Blood Vessel Treatment Prior to Transplantation.

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5230996.PN.&OS=PN/5230996&RS=PN/5230996

Pauling and Rath were able to demonstrate during organ transplants that a bath of "Lipoprotein(a) Inhibitors" (e.g. vitamin C and a lysine analog) would literally melt (dissolve) the plaques on the organs ready for transplant. This is a feature of the chemistry, of which Pauling was the world expert.

It is interesting that both vitamin and lysine are also strong antivirals. In Dr. Levy's important book MAGNESIUM: Healing Disease, he presents that evidence that in the atheroclerotic plaques studied, pathogen DNA is always found, (but not in controls without atherosclerosis.) So Pauling's therapy may work for a completely different reason than we currently believe.

How to prove that it is working? The least expensive and non-invasive way is CardioRetinometry, which you can do on your own, sort of, by getting a eye exam, say at Walmart and adding the $9 retina photo. If you have CVD the optometrist would be able to spot it. Later you have a similar picture taken, and see whether the optometrist can see the tell-tale atheromas. ..

[Lucky1]

Hi eDOC - Thanks for the info!. Read your suggested reading and other posts re the spike on this forum and it is very interesting.

Excuse my ignorance, I want to see if I understand correctly.
The vaccine is meant to neutralize the spike on the virus that infects people. It does this by creating ‘anti-spike’ antibodies. These antibodies remain in the body of some/or all those vaccinated. These anti-spike antibodies create problems like the weakening of the heart muscle and more clotting. The covid serology test is to see if those anti-spike antibodies, or some form of them, are still in the body? Is that generally correct?

So what testing specifically do I ask for? Is it called SARS-COV-2 Serology? (Is that the antibody test that they were giving people to see if they have any antibodies against covid in their system to see if they had been exposed to covid, or something different?)

If I’ve had two mRNA shots and two boosters is it logical to assume I have the ‘anti-spike’ because it lingers, or better to test to be sure?

And, most importantly, how do I remove it? I saw the post where you responded that you seriously doubted that chlorine dioxide would do it. What will?


Thanks again eDOC! You are a scholar and a gentleman for taking the time to provide some guidance to us lost and searching souls!

Lucky 1
PS- And with your permission I would like to move your response over the Forum thread that deals with the spike protein so others can be educated as well.

[eDOC]

Hi Lucky1,

Replies to your queries:

Excuse my ignorance, I want to see if I understand correctly.
The vaccine is meant to neutralize the spike on the virus that infects people. It does this by creating ‘anti-spike’ antibodies. These antibodies remain in the body of some/or all those vaccinated.

Correct.

These anti-spike antibodies create problems like the weakening of the heart muscle and more clotting. The covid serology test is to see if those anti-spike antibodies, or some form of them, are still in the body? Is that generally correct?

Correct, but only in susceptible, high risk individuals.

So what testing specifically do I ask for? Is it called SARS-COV-2 Serology?

Correct.

If I’ve had two mRNA shots and two boosters is it logical to assume I have the ‘anti-spike’ because it lingers, or better to test to be sure?

Woh 4 in total without testing, seems very non scientific. I had my 2 shots 1 yr. back, and in Jan'23 and got tested for Neutralizing Antibodies (NAbs) which were +3500, after infusing my developed booster I got them rechecked few days back and are +10K. (NOT Anti Spike). My patients who get vaxxed with mRNA, after 6 weeks hardly have max 500, which gradually keep falling, unless I treat them.

And, most importantly, how do I remove it? I saw the post where you responded that you seriously doubted that chlorine dioxide would do it. What will?

Yes I doubt since I have never used CLO2 to remove. Owen has a posted numerous modalities, in the COVID section. I only use my developed protocols, unless they fail to give results, btw which has never happened till now.

Thanks again eDOC! You are a scholar and a gentleman for taking the time to provide some guidance to us lost and searching souls!

You're welcome. Thanks for the kind words but am just a uneducated conv. doc and a rookie who likes to experiment. Owen is both a gentleman and a scholar. Once again I have no experience using drugs OR supplements that you mentioned like metformin, VC to stabilize plaques. Since I don't believe in stabilizing, but in eradicating plaques, same for COVID19, my cured never need any boosters or suffer from long covid and have a life long immunity against SARS-CoV-2.

PS- And with your permission I would like to move your response over the Forum thread that deals with the spike protein so others can be educated as well.

Sure, no need to ask. Owen (the forums owner) can do whatever he feels like to, delete, move etc.

Lastly is it a theoretical or a clinical discussion? Started with Atheromatous plaque monitoring, than to reading about your healthy friend's demise...If clinical, start with some labs like I posted earlier, simple blood works, CRP, d-dimer, thrombin, COVID Serology....

Good luck once again, (hoping the more educated members would assist you with your med. issues).
eDOC!!



Added:
I went to see my optician who has no idea about my plaque removal protocol, he was stunned after evaluating that my IOP was well below normal/normal for my age, vessels were as clean as a 18 yr. old. I saw patchy areas of facial discoloration and asked about them, for which he was being treated by dermatologists using laser and steroid ointments. He replied that he too got 4 x mRNAs since his brother passed away due to COVID. He knows about my work on COVID, recommended a few labs and had Addison's post vaxx, which got reversed since he got treated by me.

Enjoy life and worry less.