IV vitamin C fails to help with Covid and sepsis

[greg9840]

Any thoughts on these 2 journal articles? They say that IV vitamin C is not helpful for Covid or sepsis. Obviously they have an agenda but are there any glaring flaws in the studies?
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2811216
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2811212

[Blargus]

Why not measure multiple things so you can see if its doing anything they seemed to just measure "days free of organ support". How did they set the bar for organ support? Could the patients have been improving in some way but they just kept them on organ support? Sorry I did not read it that closely. Also from what I remember, the Marik Sepsis protocol is more than just IVC:

https://www.faim.org/interview-with-dr- ... for-sepsis

How is he getting such good results and then others not? I guess along side outcomes he was measuring things like renal function and saw improvement did these studies do that not that I saw could be mistaken. I have seen other studies with vitamin C that said "no benefit" and then you look at some of the criteria they measured and see a benefit on some measures.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27940189/

I personally have a hard time believing people in the Hospital with covid got large doses of Vitamin C and did not improve in any way from it.

[Serdna]

This is disheartening. The dose used seems to be the one used by Fowler et al. (50mg-C/kg-weight) giving rise to a clear benefit by day 4 (the maximum duration of the treatment):

I have taken a look at the second paper and I don't see any critically concerning point except for some perhaps minor points.

1.- Vitamin C used:

All sites used locally available vitamin C formulations

no one of them (page 6 of the Supplemental Appendix 1) was the one used by Fowler et al. I am beginning to think that quality (ratio of ascorbic to dehydroascorbic perhaps) could be an issue.

2.- Looking at the mortality results only the LOVIT trial, taking place in Canada, was positive but without statistical significance (too low number of patients). From eTable 12 on page 26 of Supplementala Appendix 1, 24 deaths from 84 on the treatment arm of LOVIT critically ill patients, 33 deaths from 97 on the control arm. This gives rise to a relative risk of death ratio of 0.8754 but with a very wide 95% confidence interval of 0.5528 to 1.3864. Meanwhile taking both trials together there are 395 deaths from 1037 in the treatment arm, 189 deaths from 531 in the control arm (same table, with numbers somewhat different than in the main paper), giving rise to a relative risk of death ratio of 1.0508 with 95% confidence interval of 0.9059 to 1.2190.

3.- Things doesn't seem to be favorable for vitamin C even for the first 4 days (treatment duration) from Figure 2.c. That's strange given the results of Fowler et al. shown just above.

PS: Owen, I hope you are doing better.

[C-can]

50 mg per kg of body weight? I take double that after a single meal. And I'm not even sick and haven't been for 7 years despite no C*vid v@ccination. My allergies have also disappeared and I never take any Claritin, Sudafed etc.