Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Focus on Hong Kong Dr. Leung's vitamin B5 discovery that megadoses of pantothenic acid maintain metabolism of a calorie deficit, leading to sustained weight loss without hunger, weakness or ketosis

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tangy
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#61  Post by tangy » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:24 am

Starting Pantethine mega dosing from today. I plan on taking 5 capsules of 600mb each. Let's see what happens :mrgreen:

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#62  Post by ofonorow » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:21 am

confused1 wrote:
ofonorow wrote:Thanks for the report confused1 - that creates another "special interest" group to be against vitamin B5 - eye doctors :) (I had a similar experience after my first DMSO session.. You haven't been doing DMSO too, have you?)
.I could have sworn I read about vision improvement on one of these threads, was it a DMSO thread?


Its in the questions to eDOC about DMSO for detox thread - after my first IV. In the German DMSO handbook, this eyesight improvement was noticed enough for an eye doctor friend of Stanley Jacobs (father of DMSO therapy) to run a study and confirm it. Since we have never seen eye sight improvements attributed to vitamin B5 - my guess is that yours was due to the DMSO.
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#63  Post by confused1 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:14 am

ofonorow wrote:
confused1 wrote:
ofonorow wrote:Thanks for the report confused1 - that creates another "special interest" group to be against vitamin B5 - eye doctors :) (I had a similar experience after my first DMSO session.. You haven't been doing DMSO too, have you?)
.I could have sworn I read about vision improvement on one of these threads, was it a DMSO thread?


Its in the questions to eDOC about DMSO for detox thread - after my first IV. In the German DMSO handbook, this eyesight improvement was noticed enough for an eye doctor friend of Stanley Jacobs (father of DMSO therapy) to run a study and confirm it. Since we have never seen eye sight improvements attributed to vitamin B5 - my guess is that yours was due to the DMSO.
Thank you. I'm guessing so too, but curious my wife didn't experience it. But nonetheless, it is a very real phenomenon, absolutely amazing. Apologies for misleading anyone about the b5 and you should probably delete that post.

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#64  Post by tangy » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:24 am

I took two pills of pantethine twice a day and got loose motions, also noticed floaters in my stool. Now I am planning to take one at a time on an empty stomach and report back.

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#65  Post by ofonorow » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:16 am

What brand of Pantethine?

Some, but not all of our subjects using the NOW brand at 600 mg have reported loose stools. (I suspect the filler, but the reasons are unknown)

Because of the success of one subject (and to preserve our Pantethine supply) I switched to 10,000 mg of NOW ordinary B5 daily.
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#66  Post by Johnwen » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:50 am

Using Pantethine in high levels can cause diarrhea because of it’s effects on the liver. (Lowers cholesterol and tri’s by dumping them into the GI system)

High levels can also block other B vitamins with the exception of B12.

I would suggest more of a Steady State dosing since he’s taking 2 pills 2 times a day, try taking one pill every 3 or 4 hours and see if this settles things down.

I must note, that not everybody taking Pantethine in high doses experiences this problem. So it’s kind of a personal thing.
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#67  Post by tangy » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:11 am

ofonorow @ I am using Now Pantethine.


Johnwen @ (Lowers cholesterol and tri’s by dumping them into the GI system) That Explain the stool floaters :) Yes, I will try that.

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#68  Post by tangy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:22 pm

After one week of taking four capsules a day of Now Pantethine, I haven't experienced any weight loss or increase in libido. I did however notice dryer face, my face has always been oily. I also had side effects like lose motions and stool floaters.

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#69  Post by ofonorow » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:00 am

Thanks for the report - is that 600 mg (X 4) of Pantethine? Or 2,400 mg daily?

The person in our study who is steadily loosing is on 7,200 mg of Pantethine, restricting calories, and we added carnotine (500 mg)

The skin change is interesting.
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#70  Post by tangy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:46 am

Should I up the dosage, I am presently consuming 2400 mg? How does carnotine (500 mg) help with the weight loss?

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#71  Post by ofonorow » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:29 am

If weight loss is the objective, then yes, all indications are at this point is that you will need to increase the dosage. And you will have to restrict calories and limit carbohydrates. (The good news, according to Leung, is that after you lose the weight, 1 gram per day (versus 10 grams) is the B5 maintenance dose.)

I saw an article by Jeffery Dach http://www.drdach.com/Acne_B5.html (Scroll down to carnitine discussion) where he discussed the Leung findings and provided the argument that adding carnotine would improve the efficiency of burning long chain lipids.
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#72  Post by sjmusic2 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:50 pm

Help me here... massive weight loss is achievable using a low carb, paleo diet and limited exercise alone. Why is the recommendation to mega-dose B5 - does this augment the calorie-restriction and carb-control ? Does B5 help with insulin sensitivity ?

I have been on the paleo spectrum for many years and if I limit my carbs to 50-75g per day with no refined carbs or grains the fat melts away quickly. Maybe that's just me ?

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#73  Post by Montmorency » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:48 am

OK, I'm in. I received my vitamin B5 order yesterday (2017-08-30) in the form of powder from BulkPowders.com.

I will aim for 10g per day. I'll probably end up putting it in gelatin capsules like I take most of my supplements, but for now I'm dissolving it in water. It's not the most delicious taste, but it's not the worst supplement I've tasted (that might be nicotinic acid, followed by ascorbic acid... :D ).

I should say that I've been on a low-carb, high-fat, moderate protein diet since January of this year, and for most of that time, have been aiming for the ketogenic range of the LCHF "spectrum". I lost slowly but steadily for a couple or three months, but I've had several stalls since, the current one probably for around 2 months. I've been around 200 lbs +/- 5 lb for that time.

My target weight is probably around 154-161 lb (11 to 11.5 stone in the usual UK parlance) which is probably still a bit high going by the usual charts for my height, but I doubt if I'd be comfortable at much less.

My aim is of course good health, as well as weight-loss, and previous experience showed that LCHF improved my blood lipids and probably reversed pre-diabetes. However, between about 2010 and 2016 I fell off the LCHF wagon, and regained. Come 2017 I felt I had to try again, and then discovered the "keto" aspect of LCHF.

I've been following the keto "experts" such as Jason Fong, Steve Phinney, Ted Naiman and others, and follow the "2 Keto Dudes" podcast and forum. I'd think the keto "experts" would probably disagree with some of the science behind the pantothenic acid / pantethine idea, but I'm happy to give it a try. One area where I think it will help is in fasting. I've tried 24H and one 48H fast, and I think they help, but I don't find them easy. I do do intermediate fasting, and postpone breakfast as long as possible, or more likely skip it, and can usually manage on 1 meal per day without snacking.
But lately, I've been allowing myself "cheats" (from LCHF) and I think that's the main reason for the stalling.

So it will be interesting to see if B5 helps me stop "cheating" and helps break the stall.
However, the main problem with any form of dieting is, I find, social / family pressures.

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#74  Post by ofonorow » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:47 am

Montgomery, anxious to hear your future reports as you seem to be an expert on Ketosis. The beauty of the Leung approach is NO KETOSIS, and if you enter it, then Leung says you may have to go up to 20 grams of B5 daily. I am not sure what "ketogenic range of the LCHF spectrum" means, but I think it may become moot with B5 :D

sjmusic2 wrote:Help me here... massive weight loss is achievable using a low carb, paleo diet and limited exercise alone. Why is the recommendation to mega-dose B5 - does this augment the calorie-restriction and carb-control ? Does B5 help with insulin sensitivity ?

I have been on the paleo spectrum for many years and if I limit my carbs to 50-75g per day with no refined carbs or grains the fat melts away quickly. Maybe that's just me ?


You do sound lucky sjmusic2. And your statement is true - assuming you have enough B5 to form coenzyme A that can then metabolize the food that you do eat. Leung wondered why when most people switch to fat burning, which should be more efficient, we usually go into the ketosis mode which wastes energy. His theory is that all the food we eat in modern society effectively creates a conezyme A deficiency. The vitamin needed to form coenzyme A is B5 (or the more complete Pantethine.) The beauty is efficient fat burning, lack of hunger, lack of ketosis, and the slow loss of about 2 lbs per week on a diet of 1000 calories daily.

But this is a side effect of vitamin B5/Coenzyme A (as is curing acne in 2-3 weeks). This information was sent to me by Dr. Levy in the hope that it would help restart my adrenal function. The reason acne starts at puberty, according to Leung's theory, is because as the adrenals begin making hormones, coenzyme A is used up in greater quantities.
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#75  Post by sjmusic2 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:49 am

ofonorow wrote:You do sound lucky sjmusic2. And your statement is true - assuming you have enough B5 to form coenzyme A that can then metabolize the food that you do eat. Leung wondered why when most people switch to fat burning, which should be more efficient, we usually go into the ketosis mode which wastes energy. His theory is that all the food we eat in modern society effectively creates a conezyme A deficiency. The vitamin needed to form coenzyme A is B5 (or the more complete Pantethine.) The beauty is efficient fat burning, lack of hunger, lack of ketosis, and the slow loss of about 2 lbs per week on a diet of 1000 calories daily.

But this is a side effect of vitamin B5/Coenzyme A (as is curing acne in 2-3 weeks). This information was sent to me by Dr. Levy in the hope that it would help restart my adrenal function. The reason acne starts at puberty, according to Leung's theory, is because as the adrenals begin making hormones, coenzyme A is used up in greater quantities.

But wouldn't any typical adult experience significant weight loss on only 1000 calories per day ? Are you saying that this is not the case, or maybe you are saying that B5 causes fat-loss rather than protein-loss ???

Weight loss is still fundamentally linked to insulin and the body's sensitivity thereof. I guess if those 1000 calories were all from white sugar, ie. refined carbs, then you will not lose as much weight as if it were vegetables, good fat and protein. Maybe the paleo diet delivers sufficient B5 to facilitate the dramatic weigh-loss experienced by most, if not all who stay committed to it over an extended period of time. I have never seen anyone fail to drop weight (fat) when they start paleo and continue for at least 30 days, granted my sample group is limited.

But equally as important as nutrition, are sleep and exercise (HIIT and strength), though now I'm starting to get off-topic !


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