Liposomal Vitamin B5 - Help us Determine/Verify Efficacy

Focus on Hong Kong Dr. Leung's vitamin B5 discovery that megadoses of pantothenic acid maintain metabolism of a calorie deficit, leading to sustained weight loss without hunger, weakness or ketosis

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Liposomal Vitamin B5 - Help us Determine/Verify Efficacy

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:44 am

We believe we may have the only True-liposomal B5 product. We are hoping forum members can help us verify its potency and efficacy.

Background: We understand that people on low-carb diets, generally, go into ketosis, providing a tangible verification of fat burning. Dr. Leung's theory is the efficient fat burning requires Coenzyme A (CoA) and that people enter ketosis when CoA runs low, to a secondary lipid burning pathpay. He is probably right, and some amount of B5 reduces or eliminates ketosis. (Note: We looked at the liposomal B5 product as add-on to the primary B5 powdered drink mix, hopefully reducing the amount of the regular drink mix required. It just happened to become available first, so now we are trying to understand whether it can be used stand alone.)

The hypothesis is that like vitamin C, liposomal B5 has 10 times the efficacy of ordinary powder. (We now believe, based on years of experience, that liposomal C can have 10 times the efficacy of IV/C - directly into the vein.). Caveat: This efficacy is related to infection.

B5 isn't a volatile as C, so the liposome encapsulation ("protection") may not matter as much, and perhaps like collagen - the amount of vitamin C matters. In other words, we think we know that for heart disease, it is the amount of vitamin C - no matter what the form, that matters. W/ B5 it is probably the amount of CoA that is made available that matters.

Since B5 can "protect" the body from going into ketosis when it otherwise would, we need an experiment that helps us measure liposomal's potency visa vis powder. (Below is the experience of a Foundation member who is dieting, in ketosis, and unfortunately, has very little body fat :-)

Step #1. Establish the diet that puts a person into ketosis, Leung said 1000 calories per day put people into ketosis in 2 or 3 days. (No doubt a fasting protocol should also).

Step #2 - Verify the amount of ordinary vitamin B5 that lowers/ends ketosis - while adhering to the Step #1 diet. (Confusing factor is that eating carbs can also bring a person out of ketosis).

Step #3 - Determine the ratio between liposomal B5 and ordinary B5.
The person has completed Step #1 and Step #2, i.e. the person is on the keto-diet, but not in ketosis. Substitute the liposomal B5 for the drink mix, to determine the amount of liposomal that can keep the person out of ketosis, while reducing ordinary B5. First we will verify the 1 to 1 correspondence, and then work up to the 1 to 10 ratio.

PANTOTHENE

Another confusing factor is that the new B5 Fat Burn Technology Power Drink Mix includes Pantothene, a more complete CoA precursor. We think we know from doctors reports curing acne that 1/5 the amount as Pantothene is required (e.g. 2000 mg instead of 10000 mg)

The Chiropractors (links you sent tome) are correct. If people know they are in ketosis - they need to be taking more B5. If Leung is correct, some amount, sometimes as much as 20,000 mg daily will be enough to avoid ketosis.

I was asked a question, if ketosis is really a secondary fat burning pathway, how does that square with our evolution? (The obvious answer is that humans/life has hardly ever had full refrigerators. The amount of CoA required to burn what we eat these days must be high.) If this is all true, early humans on the paleo diet ate "enough" B5 in their foods to burn off what they ate without ketosis.

Back to the original question, what would be the best way to determine the fat-burning power of liposomal B5




I was in the middle this AM registering small ketones.
I'll eat in a bit/take my B5/and retest.
I plan to test every 3 hours or so. I took 2 tsp more when I was in the office yesterday on an empty stomach- and my stomach was not happy. I'll try to make sure I take with some food.
I had a total of 3 tsp yesterday.
I think I'll create a calendar to track my weight, how I feel, and ketone levels
.


I worry about you dieting and being in Ketosis. I have at least 40 lbs of fat to burn. I don't see hardly any fat on you to burn, so the next fuel, if there is no fat or glucose - is protein. You will deplete your body protein, especially if you aren't eating a good amount of protein.

Run out of fat, and in theory, you should exit ketosis - because ketones are made out of fats.

Now what we hope to find out is, given you still have body fat, how much of the liposomal takes you out of ketosis, especially given there are only 500 mg of vitamin B5 per serving. (I am hoping the 10 to 1 ratio we have for liposomal vitamin C holds. If it did, then 2 servings, or 1000 mg would be equivalent to 10,000 mg of ordinary vitamin B5. That is on experiment.


I'll take 1 tsp in the AM and 1 tsp in the evening.

The HUGE thing I have to be careful of is that carbs add up even in keto foods and that can throw me out of ketosis.

I'm going to have to be careful in this experiment to really keep the carbs low so that we can tell if the B-5 is keeping me out of ketosis or the carb borderline. If I'm near 50 carbs, I show only small or trace ketones.

Yesterday was my highest reading ever (3rd from the top on the strips at moderate).


Another experiment, will be to see whether the new drink mix product - which combines vitamin B5 and panthothene - at around 10 g - keeps you from going into ketosis, but again, you have to have some body fat for this to be valid.

I do have body fat. The interesting thing about my experiment is that I'm dealing with the 20lb peri-menopause weight gain. Starting summer 2017 I gained 20lbs over 6 months from hormones changing. I'm still getting the monthly - most months- but I must be near the end. I am doing HRT from my gyne, just conventional 100mg progesterone and a weekly estrogen patch. The bioidentical cost a fortune so I gave up on that. My gyne said that is a racket just like the expensive thyroid chiropractor doctors.

My bloat a very uncomfortable bloated unnatural feeling. My normal weight has been between 128 and 133 my entire life. I shot up to 151 in 6 months about a year ago. I've managed to take about 8 lbs off struggling with the keto diet. I am at a plateu between 141 and 142.
About a month ago, I experimented with adding back some carbs to see if I'd feel better. My result was the scale creaping back up...so I went back keto over a week ago.

I WAS on 2 blood pressure medications when I was in the upper 140's. I'm off both of them since I took the 8-10 lbs off.
My primary care doctor told me that my body just does not like any extra weight. He actually suggested I try to get back down even though I look ok to most people.

My goal is to get to 133-135 for my health. That is the weight that my body was the happiest at and where I'm comfortable. This weight is uncomfortable and bloaty feeling.
I might be happy even at 137ish. These last 5-8 lbs just don't want to budge!


As far as the Chiropractor saying that people in Ketosis require vitamin B5. That is correct no matter what. According to Leung, ketones are created from an incomplete "burn" of lipids/fats. The burn is incomplete because of a lack of coenzyme A. This lack is due to a lack of vitamin B5 (the precursor to coenzyme A). The body has an alternative metabolic path when CoA/B5 are missing - ketosis.

Leung showed that most people on a 1000 calorie diet avoided ketosis while taking 10,000 g B5 daily - and lost weight. But he did mention that some study subjects required 20,000 mg daily to stay out of ketosis. So ketosis was used to measure whether more B5 was required.


With all the keto hype, I'm surprised that Leung is the only one that has come up with this. Most people like seeing that they are in ketosis because its a visual that they are in fat burning mode. It is a way to measure that they are doing something right.

Won't people start cheating with carbs if they cannot tell by using test strips?


That's what we are trying to do with you - learn how much of the liposomal kicks you out of ketosis. It may be more than a bottle a day. I hope not, and the liposomal is supposed to be an add-on, or kickstart to the new B5 product. I appreciate you doing the research, but I don't want you to run out of fat!

Thus the advice to keep glucose tablets with you at all times.


I bought the tabs. I'm carrying them with me. How would I know if I need them? Too bad I'm out of diabetic test strip supplies.

I think I'm getting enough protein- because there is nothing else to eat but protein/fat/veggies.

Don't worry, I won't be in any danger unless I get down below 125. I don't think I'll ever get that low again. I was even healthy then.

I've been as low as 110 after my divorce years ago..and I know that was very bad.

All women gain 10-20 lbs during the change o life. I'm hoping that I could be a good ad for us women. The weight is the most stubborn impossible weight to get off. The body creates more fat so that the fat produces estrogen when the ovaries stop. This is protective against osteoporosis. I'd rather find another way to not get osteoporosis than be pudgy.
I'm fighting a natural biological process of estrogen fat and slower metabolism.
I'm determined to get back to my healthy weight. I've always had a flat stomach till now.

When will we get the powdered drink
?
Owen R. Fonorow
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